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Policy Change on Approvals/Vouches and Levels
#1
I have changed the stickies on the intro forum to reflect the current change. From the previous policy, the changes are thus:

1. Instead of being capped at 40, a character without an approved profile can now reach level 50 and not be character banned.

2. However, 50 is now the real limit, even if you have a profile approved. In order to advance past this, you need your vouches and need to be in the Grunt group.

The reasons for this are pretty simple. With the level cap raise, I decided it best to allow people to go a little higher, hopefully letting them reach other areas to RP in if they so wish. However, I'm putting a hard cap at 50 until you are a Grunt. Why? The reason is that level 55 is when someone can make a Death Knight.

The up-side is this: after talking it over, we will probably be making Death Knights available to Grunts. Stay tuned on that. I still want to verify a couple things with Kretol and ensure that they're working alright as far as creation goes (because the class itself isn't causing crashes, but the starting zone is.)
Have you hugged an orc today?
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#2
I know it's not my place to debate, but if people can level to 50 profile or no profile, we're gonna have a lot less profiles, and a lot less perks for doing one.

Also, I believe there's a way to stop Deathknights being made in the DB directly, there's gotta be some macro or software to do that for you.

Bu my main quarm is the levels, again, why should we that have gotten characters approved, and shown skill in making them, be capped at the same as an unapproved one? Surely the point of the cap in the first place was to allow those who've made good characters to go further, and those who haven't bothered to be kept back as encouragement, wasn't it?

I'm sorry if I'm not meant to debate this here, or if it's over my bounds, but I feel strongly about this one, and thought that I should voice my opinions.
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#3
Yes and no.

The limit was in place so that people would actively work to create profiles instead of just leveling up to 70 (80 now) on their own. Keeping in mind, people will still want to make profiles to get up to the max. 50 is still 30 levels short of the cap, just as 40 was during BC. That's a huge gap, and 50 still isn't enough to safely traverse many Outland and Northrend areas. The difference here is fairly trivial.

And, we CAN stop people from making Death Knights entirely. Kretol can set it so DKs become Warriors instead. But I don't want to have to have that happen, since then it becomes a pain in the neck to actually get people we want to make them, to make them.

Keeping in mind...we want people to not just put thought into characters (profiles,) but we also want to see that they're RPing those characters well and are impressing the rest of the players (vouches.) They go hand in hand. The only reason why the vouching requirement was made less strict in the past was because of how difficult it was to get vouches. Well, it still is, but due to a change in circumstances (DKs) something had to give either way. I see this as the best solution given the problems we were faced with.
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#4
Thanks a ton Grak, makes sense now, I'dve kept it at 40, because I always assumed it was there so you could get your next armour/mount and nothing more. But yeah, that cleared it up!
Thankee
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#5
I think the policy change is fine and well, leveling really is an optional thing and nothing is stopping any one from refraining from leveling at all. In fact, leveling less may give alot of vouchless peons more time to try and find grunts to roleplay with. It feels like it is very slow going for the lot of us as I feel like I have roleplayed with many talented roleplayers, but there are very few that can give vouches at this point. I think the majority of people that I am playing with are either other peons or GMs. I think once more of us reach the grunt phase it will be faster going but right now it's a shot in the dark whether we can find a grunt to play with at any given time.

Not sure if I'm seeking an answer or any changes, I'm just trying to state how it feels out there. I do think it is good to have time to develop relationships with other characters and get to know the community but when I log on I sometimes have powerful urges to hunt down grunts and corner them if any of them happen to be online.
Lyre Sil'Induin - Soul Seamstress
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#6
Now, I've just been thinking on this.

Why should you have a physical barrier? Why not just say "Only grunts can have Deathknights, any peons will be suspended" or something? If you don't trust people to not make them when they're told not to, then why do you have those people here?

The whole point of upgrading to Wrath of the Lich king is Northrend, and if you have to be a grunt to even get there, what the hell would be the point?

All I'm really saying is that being limited because we haven't got vouches is stupid. If you can't trust the peons to stay within the rules, then why have them? And that it seems a real shame to be excluded from all the new content because we can't be vouched because we don't see the Grunts.

Take this into consideration, please.
-KC.
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#7
Lyre - We're aware of how vouches currently are. I can say that this is something that will eventually fix itself. Once more people become grunts, more people will be around to give vouches, etc. That said, I am certain that not everyone will ever get all of their vouches. That's the point, otherwise why have the system in the first place?

Hopefully this will be fixed. Maybe if I can ever get time to RP on the server, which I haven't yet, I'll be able to start handing out some vouches myself.

KC - What is "stupid" depends entirely on opinion. I would highly suggest you watch your word choice in the future because it'll get you in trouble to someone who is less thick-skinned than myself.

1. At level 40 you couldn't safely go into Outland. By that logic, what was the "point" of BC for non-vouched characters? I'm aware of BEs and Draenei, but let's face it. Wrath is designed for high level people, that's just how it is.

2. The Peons CAN'T be trusted. That's about as blunt as I can make it. When you become a Peon, it's proving that you have read forum stickies and can do some decent writing. That says nothing about you as a person or your RP-style. You RP, you earn Grunt position if you do well.

3. DK's are restricted for two reasons. One, they would end up stupidly flooded with folks. Even before the class itself existed, we once had a more relaxed system when it came to character concepts, and everyone and their mother had a warrior saying he was DK...most of them were horribly played. Now, I'm aware that the same could be said of Warlocks and Paladins. But...

4. DK's are a Hero class. Even on live, they have restrictions on their creation. I want to emulate that as best we are able. On live, you have to earn a DK by proving your ability to PvE by reaching 55. On here, you have to earn a DK by proving your ability to RP by getting vouches.

The current system is actually a compromise. Some folks wanted to have DKs completely turned off and given to just Heroes.
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#8
I understand entirely why the vouching system is slow going at this point, and that some of us can't hope to reach grunthood. I do agree that it's an appropriate filtering technique just as the introduction process is, and you're refining your roleplayers as it goes. It all is sensible, although I feel slightly creepy that I looked through the grunt usergroup and compiled a list of characters that I might be slightly stalkery to. It is not to say that I feel like I deserve vouches just for roleplaying with these people, but if I am roleplaying solely with peons then there is never a chance to throw myself into the server's refining process.

As far as Death Knights go I prefer the idea that they might be restricted to Heroes or are considered special approval. I cringe at the thought of more then a handful DKs rampaging as I believe they are not regular sights in the world, rather they are rare creatures. I wouldn't want them to become an everyday sight because I think they might occlude alot of other interesting characters and their special nature might become ho-hum.
Lyre Sil'Induin - Soul Seamstress
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#9
Hmm, yes I see your point Grak.
I'd like to say I'm sorry about that word choice, this got me a little worked-up, and I was writing in a kind of bad mood, I'll try not to do that in future.
But I do feel very strongly that there could be a way, having the cap the same no matter if you have a profile or not does seem a little strange. If we're not getting profiles approved to continue levelling, then why bother writing any? And if there's no motivation for the untrustable Peons to write one so they can continue, what's to stop someone getting to 50 with a stupid character, and no-one knowing?

Cheers,
A very not mad, calm and betterword using KC.
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#10
People will still write profiles because you still need them to progress. You just need them in combination with something else (vouches.)

And if someone is playing a bad character, that'll come out one way or the other eventually. There's always the option of a player reporting it to a GM so we can take a look at how it's being done.
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#11
Well, I for one like Grakor's idea, this new system seems solid, and although I agree there is a bit of a shortage of grunts, that will eventually get evened out.
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#12
Vrahn Wrote:Well, I for one like Grakor's idea, this new system seems solid, and although I agree there is a bit of a shortage of grunts, that will eventually get evened out.

Dammit, I'm working on it! :P
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#13
Lyre writes down Tyr's character names and cackles in the darkness.
Lyre Sil'Induin - Soul Seamstress
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#14
Can heroes and GMs vouch too?
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#15
Of course.
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