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Rensin's Guide to Inter-racial interactions
#61
I agree that in general, the races and factions are at war and hating each other. I also understand I'm new here, and may not have seen some of the things that are irritating the GMs and what not, but my thoughts on this, I think, are at least valid to be stated, yeah?

#1: The Scourge has attacked Stormwind, and begun to move on Ironforge. While some on the Horde side may see this as a victory, there have GOT to be members in the upper reaches of their government that will see the fall of the Alliance to the Scourge as an increase in its numbers, and ultimately a bad idea. In the face of this, I think it can be reasoned that some members would travel or be sent to aid the Alliance against the threat.

#2: Nothing exists in a vacuum. Yes, a racial intolerance should be the norm, but no prejudice survives through every member of a population, religion, or generation. Either through curiosity, compassion, or simple questioning of authority, members of a group will separate from time to time to discover more about a group they are told to hate.

#3: Like I said, I'm new here, but in a RP, the player characters are meant to be the exceptional members of the population, for the most part. The singular individuals around whom the fate of the future depends. We're all meant to be creating our own stories here, and everyone should have the leeway to do so, as long as they aren't being inept about it.

I understand that someone may move their favorite Blood Elf to Stormwind if all the RP is there. And they may have a logical reason to do it, possibly even a reasonable one. What should matter is the way they roleplay the interactions, not precluding interaction completely. Prejudice rarely survives kind treatment at the hands of a hated group, though this can often lead the other way to hostility.

I'm just trying to make the argument from a stance of development based on the way the real world moves, in an anthropological and psychological sense.

Thanks for listening, and sorry for the text brick.
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#62
I really think a lot of this stems out of people being afraid of rejecting or being rejected IC. I still get perplexed over people who roll Undead and act surprised when a character reacts to them grossly. I remember when Harmonic did the racial crackdown and how people actually seemed OOC offended.

It's just a character. I'm sure we've all played retail, so we know, for example, how notoriously Xenophobic/racist/uppity a lot of NE and BE are and how the Horde are split in terms of trust. This shouldn't be taken so personally, but then again, it's bad to get personal with your characters.

Since the Cartel was mentioned...

Now, everyone knows I play a Cartel elf. Anyone who's RPed with her long term knows that she drops a racial slur on every race ever and treats Blood Elves like objects and is on edge and perpetually disgusted by the undead - which makes her job of selling them armature akward. Cartel BE get a bit more lenience with her, but it's taken more like a swallowing a jagged, bitter pill for the comrades than someone entering some utopia of racial harmony. It's a weird setup (and there are a few NE in the Cartel lorewise JSYK) but it's interesting seeing how someone from that racial group with old habits try hard to assimilate on the path of success, money, and some power. She is considered a traitor of her race because she pursued materialistic goals. This is an interesting aspect to roleplay, especially given her history.

I stated before that the Cartel (blablabla Cartel) isnt even harmonious. Theyre only united through opportunity and money. It's not so tense business is jeopardized, but still, conflicts arise. Should that fall through, well damn... It'd be like those jailhouse race wars you see on MSNBC.


My point? Like Krent said, give hate a chance. If not, accept the consequences that can come from your character through the choices they made when they encounter a more traditional type, and don't be personally offended if not every character gets along with each other. That's the beauty of RP. You have all kinds of racism, ideals clashing, class divides, intolerance of warlocks, and all sorts of things.

I keep seeing this a lot: people getting OOC offended at VALID IC negativity they get. Why?
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#63
Semai, you are right. This is not a vacuum, and nothing is definate. I just am drawing a attention to this again, because -most- of the characters out there are accepting right now. This is not normal.

Nor would it be normal for people to walk around out of faction towns, often. The way an emmisary works is quite simple. You are in a city for a -small- ammount of time, to conduct business. You would not stay there your entire time, nor would you expect to be accepted with open arms. It's a job, that you know offhand will probably suck, because not but seven years ago, these groups would be fighting battles out in the open.
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#64
TwilightDisciple Wrote:I keep seeing this a lot: people getting OOC offended at VALID IC negativity they get. Why?

Off Topic: I so want to discuss this little issue because it's happening extensively, but it's a topic for another day.
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#65
Quote:in a RP, the player characters are meant to be the exceptional members of the population, for the most part. The singular individuals around whom the fate of the future depends.

I disagree, I I prefer to see characters as a nomral joe on the street, then we´ll see how they act, develop etc in RP. Problem is that most of those that are acceptant of everyone have not RP´ed this change but just... suddenly that´s how they characters were, some even starts out like that.

As for many not growing up in areas were they´d hear deragatory and bad things about other races, well, that would mean that they grew up under a stone somewhere, basicly.

Alistus and Timil work together, they do not love each other. They found a common ground as Alistus did with everyone in the Avidus. They work to strengthen themselves not each other. Of course, they see each other as their closest allies, maybe even only allies due to factors in their pasts. Alistus is not a fan of anyone not like himself, but he accepts anyone that he think could be ussful, at least until their ussefulness is depleted.

Quote:Theyre only united through opportunity

That´s how the Avidus is as well, just smaller and less acceptant.

Quote:My point? Like Krent said, give hate a chance. If not, accept the consequences that can come from your character through the choices they made when they encounter a more traditional type, and don't be personally offended if not every character gets along with each other.

Well put.
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#66
Oh, I understand. And, like I said, I haven't really seen a crapload of the stuff that's probably pissing off the GMs. What I saw today was Gnomes and Blood Elves working together to fight off the Scourge, and bickering, arguing, and insulting the entire time. It seemed honest and real, to me. The Night Elf I walked in with was immediately slurred by the Blood Elf, but she turned her heel on it as the Gnomes spoke to the need of the Blood Elves presence.

I understand that some people may be overly accepting as of late, and I understand that the GMs and some other staunch supporters of all out war at all times are getting irritated.

I just felt a dissenting voice, a devil's advocate, needed to be made from a clear and realistic derivation descending from real world military history and cultural development.

^_^
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#67
Semai Wrote:Gnomes and Blood Elves working together to fight off the Scourge, and bickering, arguing, and insulting the entire time. It seemed honest and real, to me. The Night Elf I walked in with was immediately slurred by the Blood Elf, but she turned her heel on it as the Gnomes spoke to the need of the Blood Elves presence.

Aye, this isn´t the problem and sadly the overly acceptance has been an on-going trend for some time.
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#68
Interesting you should bring up the Steamwheedle Cartel. SHAMELESS PLUG UNO TWO SAN~! The Cartel is actually probably the most racially tolerant groups in Azeroth. Notice how I say -tolerant- and not accepting. Like Olly said, it mostly stems off of a mutual interest with one another. Everyone joins the Cartel to make good money doing bad things. It's a world full of sex, lies, drugs, and hedonistic indulgences, with a strange family-like bond of trust stringing it all together.

Krent himself has had a few conflicts with dealing with Trolls. He thinks most of them are mentally challenged and outright barbaric, mostly saying not-so-nice things about tribals. Poor Heari's had to deal with it. And as shocking as it is to hear, Krent was a huge Blood Elf racist at one point in his life. He still is a bit, considering that a Blood Elf warlock destroyed his Home Town and the races history of dealing with Fel.

So why is he doing "the touch" with Slash? Because the Cartel life is stressful. It's crazy. It's scary. It's a fast-paced life where one could find a dagger in their back at a moment's notice. Only real escapes one can find in it all is through carnal pleasures. Slash 'n Krent hooked up during one drug-fueled crazy party, and they just decided to stick together as friends with mutual benefits. They aren't a "couple" or even "dating". They both even admit openly that they'll be seeing other people in between their little get togethers. They just enjoy each others company while they can, then drift off to go indulge themselves in other stuff.

So, what I'm just trying to say here is....give hate a chance. And that Crime Is Fun.
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#69
Nostra Wrote:
Semai Wrote:Gnomes and Blood Elves working together to fight off the Scourge, and bickering, arguing, and insulting the entire time. It seemed honest and real, to me. The Night Elf I walked in with was immediately slurred by the Blood Elf, but she turned her heel on it as the Gnomes spoke to the need of the Blood Elves presence.

Aye, this isn´t the problem and sadly the overly acceptance has been an on-going trend for some time.

I wouldn't mind that if a majority of the people weren't batting a single eyelash that there is a bloodelf in Ironforge.

It's like the old saying about the "Elephant in the room. It's obviously there but noone is talking about it".
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#70
Or when batting an eyelash, people faint in coils OOC - because yes, that DOES need to be brought up. Taking what happens to your character so personally is a good portion of why this is going pearshaped.

If we're going to bring up historical military movements, there's differences between "cannon fodder" and "great pals". If the other races come to help, then that's probably only going to be tolerated right up to the point they stop being useful, IF it's accepted at all. And again, if Sin'Dorei hate humans so much, I would honestly think all they'd be doing right now is cheering. But I'm quite certain they wouldn't be hanging out and chatting and being best of mates with the Alliance faction, and that's happening. A lot.

If it's a matter of "Well, all the rp is in Stormwind so I want to go there"...then roll a human. Or, as has been done in the past, get a group of people who want to play a certain race together and create rp in a different location. This has happened in the past where certain areas became the rp flavours of the month and you'd be lucky if you could find rp outside of it. However, what most people did was either create new characters to go to that other area, or they'd get their own storylines going with existing characters without having to cross enemy lines (i.e., Siv getting the Grey Militia off the ground as, at the time there was a huge blood elf influx).

If there's no rp in your race's city...create it. The whole reason these invasions were started and the unrest was unleashed was to get people out and doing things. There's threats surrounding nearly every single city or faction on the server. Hunt bugs as blood elves - because they're there, and they're getting stronger. There's baddies and nasties to take on in quite a few places, if people would go and look.

Whoop some bootay, and create your rp if you can't find it anywhere convenient.
Live your own life; you die your own death
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#71
I don't disagree with any particular point. As I said, was just making the point that there is some argument for it in relation to individuals.

I absolutely agree that, if you can't find RP with a specific character or in a specific place, by all means get more people to roll in your area, or make a new character.

The Blood Elf reference was meant to be a homily as to what people shouldn't do, by the way, not an encouragement of behavior.

I agree that current play should be a bit.. less accepting of cross faction players running through enemy territory. But, as to an individual crossing factions, I think this should be something between the player and the GM, not a battle fought out here, yeah?
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#72
Oh man. If you guys went out and explored half of the baddies we've added in places, I'd be sooooo happy. So'd Qaza.

But noone has found them, because noone tries. Some people may have noticed that the Deadmines are a bit more full than usual, but that is SMALL compared to a lot of what Qaza has added.

Yes it's dangerous. Yes your character might die. But so what? You'll still be alive afterwards, and you'll have had fun doing it.
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#73
Heh.. I just want to get a couple of vouches before I start hurling m'self bodily into death.
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#74
Semai Wrote:But, as to an individual crossing factions, I think this should be something between the player and the GM, not a battle fought out here, yeah?

This was not my intention when making this topic long ago. Nor is it now.

I feel that the discussion being carried out in this guide is more so to point this out to be what it is; -a guide-.

This is the basic guidline to how races should interact with eachother. Flavor can be added to this in several different ways.

Obviously, if you are of a faction that is tolerant, by all means be tolerant. If not, and you had most races besides your own, then act accordingly.

Does this mean the whole of a city will accept you. -Certainly not-.

That was something I wanted to draw attention to. Noone thinks is wierd for someone to be in a town that race would -not- normally be in.

Again, I am not in any way pointing fingers at anyone, nor am I saying that anyone's character isn't sufficient. But I will say this, there are people who are not observing it. It does come off as awkward, and it does make things complicated.

I do -not- want people to get bent out of shape about this. This isn't to call people out, or to say I'm angry, or -anything- of the like. Again, this is me saying how to act ICly.
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#75
A well role-played character and acceptance of your characters death will more likely bring you vouches than the tea-parties. At least it will bring vouches that are worth more.

On another note, this discussion doesn´t seem to get us anywhere, the guide that Rensin have made is the norm from which GMs will look at profiles, puppet NPCs and play their own characters. If you have a large problem with this this server might not be right place for you, I´m not directing this at anyone specific. For now I think it´s better to just go out there and role-play instead of fueling OOC drama with this.

This is Warcraft and I as a GM will play it as Warcraft, I believe the other GMs will as well. Roll with it or leave. Or if you got what it takes in you, RP to make a change, if you want global-peace fight for it IN ROLE-PLAY. Any OOC moaning, groaning or whining will lead to my opinion being lowered drasticly about you (except in some valid cases) so please don´t, as I´ve said soo many times, Role-play to make the change.
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