Poll: Your Resurrection Preference
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Old System
28.13%
9 28.13%
Current System
31.25%
10 31.25%
Other
40.63%
13 40.63%
Total 32 vote(s) 100%
* You voted for this item. [Show Results]

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Resurrection
#1
(12-21-2011, 04:17 PM)Rigley Wrote: ...by going on the outlook of 'well, its just a week' it seems that kinda devalues death in a way. Death is supposed to be something impacting, something that will greatly affect a character-- when it comes to the point that your character has been revived many times death just doesn't seem like much of a burden anymore. It's a mild inconvenience, which is something that just doesn't sit well with me.

I was contemplating writing a massive post on my personal opinions on this... But I'd rather not. I'll let the poll do the talking for me.

The question being:

Would you personally like to see the old Resurrection system put into place, leave it as is, or attempt some new method?

Old System:

Maximum of two resurrections before permanent player loss.

Pros:
  • Death has meaning.

  • Fewer Character Warnings.

  • Antagonists can be 'finished off' (Antagonist can be good or evil, depending on point of view)

Cons:
  • Character / Progression Loss

  • More GM enforcement (Griefing Prevention)

  • More 'drama'

Current System:

Infinite amount of resurrections.

Pros:
  • More freedom for characters (Fight dragon/demon/etc. with little repercussion)

  • Little to no GM involvement

  • Less 'drama'


    Cons:


  • Death has less meaning overall

  • More character warnings issued (Attacker can also resurrect in one week)

  • Antagonist returns time and time again, with no ending until someone 'quits'. See Sagi and Annabelle, Aroes and Tavren.


Other Proposed Systems:

Preset System


POSSIBLE IDEAS:
  • Longer wait times

  • Preset repercussions

  • More severe repercussions

  • More difficult to resurrect someone

Pros:
  • Middleground

  • No variables: Consistent repercussions for death.

Cons:
  • Cookie Cutter: Not custom tailored to individual.

<NA / TBA>


PLEASE post constructive opinions, as well as alternative ideas or additions to the pro/con list. Or if you have a problem with any of the pros/cons that are posted, they could be taken down with due reason.
"Every gun..."

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~ The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly ~
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#2
I don't know, I would kind of like a mixture between the two. What I mean is that, say, the player has infinite resurrections, but with each resurrection the character has drawbacks forced upon them, no matter the death. So, say by the third resurrection that the character has to be in a wheelchair for a few weeks. Fourth resurrection, and the player is permanently limited to the wheelchair.

EDIT: And by that, I mean every character, no matter how they died. If they've fallen off the stairs horribly three times, then it's wheelchair.
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#3
I really don't think we should discuss system change like this unless the server admins have announced an overhaul of it. Not to criticize, just seems a little moot.
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#4
Just a simple discussion to gauge interest / opinion. No attempts at overhauling anything, simply bringing to the surface peoples feelings in an organized manner.
"Every gun..."

[Image: Jonah-Hex-Counting-Corpses-Flaming-Leap.jpg]

"...Makes its own tune."


~ The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly ~
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#5
Seems like a healthy discussion, Beltharean.


I enjoy the idea of the third option, offering up some suggestions:

- Longer wait times (a week is quite brief for how grave [ha] the situation is)
- More severe permanent / long term effects. I'm tired of seeing "nightmares".
- Resurrector increases/consequences -- ease the burden by sharing it among many people, make it complicated, tiring, quite the draw on that person. It shouldn't be a casual, like jump-starting a car.

Probably more I can't think of. Thank you for opening this up for comment!
[Image: 0f084241-4e8f-4ebc-9f46-e942e4c544a8_zps7e42bd8f.jpg]
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#6
(12-21-2011, 05:20 PM)Beltharean Wrote: Sagi and Annabelle

I take my Elunite crossbow bolts, and stick one of the five into keeping the current system.

Why? Because it allows for awesome, lengthy storylines, where the villain can come back unhindered, and it prevents drama and sore losses on the count of players unhappy that their characters've died. Additionally, it lessens the workload on GMs, so everybody wins.

Besides, if a player has the courtesy to impose drawbacks on their character that make sense, they'll do it. If not, they won't. Let people choose and decide for themselves. Besides, what someone might think is fair to impose upon another, might be unfair from a third party's opinion.

Me? I've always been all about choice. Leave things as they are, ensuring the greatest amount of freedom of choice to the player-base.
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#7
If anything I would say at least lengthen the time it takes until you can write a resurrection post, a week is way too short, like going on a brief holiday. But if someone were to disappear for way longer, returning to the fray would be disorienting and interesting to RP since your character would be out of the loop.

I also reckon that infinite resurrections do ruin a lot of storylines, but I understand that not a lot of people would enjoy their character permanently being killed off. I still just see it as stupid though when someone is resurrected more then two times, I mean as if the person or the people who have resurrected said person wouldn't get sick of it and be like. "Huh, well maybe it was meant to be." It seems that most characters are now being resurrected for the hell of it, just because they can.

With the drawbacks, well I think there should be more solid rules on the drawbacks. There have been so many resurrection posts where others comment that they believe those drawbacks don't hinder the character at all and are completely useless, no one can agree on what would be too harsh and what's simply considered a slap on the wrist.

Edit: I post things way too slow. -.-



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And I am not strapped in,
Maybe I should hold with care,
But my hands are busy in the air.


Like Father, Like Son. The path of a Beastmaster.
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#8
I'm always a fan of the dark and gritty where death hurts, so I prefer the old system. I think it would make characters react more to the threat of death and it would push characters to really try and get out of a bad situation more. And if they're on their last life and about to die, they may try something really insane to get out.

I don't think there will be a lot of drama from the system but drama from people who don't think enough about what the consequences of their actions are. There'll always be problems with someone starting a fight and then suddenly a few friends from one side 'stumble' onto the combat. Might as well have the old system so if you are going down, taking one with you actually means something.
All bumbling conjurers, clumsy squires, no-talent bards, and cowardly thieves in the land will be preemptively put to death. My foes will surely give up and abandon their quest if they have no source of comic relief.
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#9
I'm actually fine with a week. I know some people may not think it's long at all but some players on the server get such busy schedules or small breaks out of the year, it'd sort of suck if they had to halt everything for like several weeks on their main.

That being said I think the wiki article for character warnings should elaborate a bit more. It seems to be written for situations or conflicts from one character to another, and perhaps should elaborate more on if there are event character warnings or location character warnings (like contested territory and such).
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#10
I guess for fairness purposes, I'd vote for the third option. Bris had a bunch of good reasons and such. I personally think there shouldn't be INFINITE rezzes. 3 or so I guess sounds good. Sometimes it's good to just let something die out(/ggl) and stay down after a few times, even if certain people don't think so.

I would go for more severe drawbacks, depending on the death. When Piken died, it wasn't anything severely destroying his body as much as being trapped inside of his Steam Armor and dying a slow, painful and terrifying death of being unable to escape his metal tomb from wounds and lack of air/food. When he was brought back, his ability to fight was limited quite a bit and he had an extreme phobia of closed spaces, needing to be in pretty open areas all of the time which meant he was never able to pilot any type of Steam Armor again. Now, I gave that little history lesson to say that it can actually be really interesting for character development, as well as also adding a chance of fairness to the drawbacks portion. If they die a terrible, horrible death, your character is more affected after being brought back. If it's a more "simple" death, for lack of a better term, then the drawbacks aren't anywhere near as severe.

And also, bringing someone back from the dead is a process that should be quite taxing on whoever does it, requiring a lot of preparation, as well as a lot of work to do during the actual resurrection. Not any permanent stuff, mind you, just.. needing a few days to recover, being limited to simple spells and such, that type of thing.
And on the topic of character warnings, I'm under the belief that.. anything is dangerous. Little things in life can cause death so you're accepting a character warning just going into any type of RP. BUT I'm always kwazi, so if someone wants to RP and it can be potentially dangerous, I guess make sure it is known to all that enter/think about entering? I still personally don't like it, because of metagaming and all. Yes, it's against the rules to do it, etc. I'm just paranoid. xD
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#11
I would prefer the old system to be honest.

I think the biggest complaint is that death is not serious enough to some people. And to be frank there are going to be people who don't take the rp seriously. Does that mean we should just make it harder on all players? It seems even with the lax policy that we have most people DO avoid death as evident by the fact that a resurrection thread comes once in a blue moon. We for the most part DO take it seriously enough to avoid it, and so amping up the restrictions doesn't really "teach" a lesson to anyone except those who would abuse a very lax system.

If you sincerely want resurrection to be harder you can make it harder for yourself. You can wait more than one week. You can choose severe penalties for your character. Heck, you could limit the number of resurrections you can take if you want. I think the standards we have in line are a sort of minimum to limit people from resurrecting constantly but give them a reasonable amount of time before they can return to their character.

That being said I'd like to think that while we have a standard for quality rp, I also like to think that we aren't too serious that we need to make things harder on other people. Relax and have fun, it may make things better for you if things are hard on your player but some of us come here to coth to cut loose and have fun with friends.
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#12
Personally I've always favored the current way of things, if only to minimize drama.

The issue I have with limited resurrections is that when it draws down to that final death, people are going to get defensive. And I'm not talking about the RPer who's character begins to armor up and doublecheck before entering a room, but the people who will quarrel all the way to the GMs making a final decision to keep their character alive.

...Heck, that already happens as is.

That being said I do think the system is rather abused. I've seen a few people who just brush off death, when really there are meant to be long-lasting effects to being deceased; in fact I'd hazard that I personally have never seen someone portraying the after affects after a few weeks.

That's not even getting into the people who get killed multiple times and then can apparently fight decently against another character.


That being said, as far as a wait time I personally again favor a week. Perhaps an extra enforced week of feebleness at most, but I've always felt that a resurrection is something you'd have done in a rather... timely fashion, not once the body is starting to rot or anything. And as I mentioned in another thread a week in itself can already fully exclude a character from most events if he's unlucky enough to go down early.

/shrug.

EDIT: Oh right. Forgot this point. My biggest thought is that the system is completely dependent on how badly people are willing to blatantly abuse it, as we see now. In that vein of thought it isn't the week of absence which makes death a light topic; its how the characters act and how they are damaged from the experience. Heck, a person could be dead for a day before revival, but if played correctly it could be an interesting experience and a character-changing time.

Spanning more time won't do much, in my mind, beside enforce and OOC consequence. ICly it makes more sense for a faster revival, at least to me.
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#13
(12-21-2011, 06:20 PM)Rigley Wrote: Personally I've always favored the current way of things, if only to minimize drama.

The issue I have with limited resurrections is that when it draws down to that final death, people are going to get defensive. And I'm not talking about the RPer who's character begins to armor up and doublecheck before entering a room, but the people who will quarrel all the way to the GMs making a final decision to keep their character alive.

...Heck, that already happens as is.

That being said I do think the system is rather abused. I've seen a few people who just brush off death, when really there are meant to be long-lasting effects to being deceased; in fact I'd hazard that I personally have never seen someone portraying the after affects after a few weeks.

That's not even getting into the people who get killed multiple times and then can apparently fight decently against another character.


That being said, as far as a wait time I personally again favor a week. Perhaps an extra enforced week of feebleness at most, but I've always felt that a resurrection is something you'd have done in a rather... timely fashion, not once the body is starting to rot or anything. And as I mentioned in another thread a week in itself can already fully exclude a character from most events if he's unlucky enough to go down early.

/shrug.

EDIT: Oh right. Forgot this point. My biggest thought is that the system is completely dependent on how badly people are willing to blatantly abuse it, as we see now. In that vein of thought it isn't the week of absence which makes death a light topic; its how the characters act and how they are damaged from the experience. Heck, a person could be dead for a day before revival, but if played correctly it could be an interesting experience and a character-changing time.

Spanning more time won't do much, in my mind, beside enforce and OOC consequence. ICly it makes more sense for a faster revival, at least to me.

I never thought about roleplaying the after-effects and that just not happening.

And I believe you're right about getting defensive over deaths, which will increase the drama over little problems for people to try and stay alive. People will throw tantrums to try and ensure death is avoided.

I feel like this would be fixed if people viewed their characters differently, as I don't understand the benefit of losing the unique traits you gained from roleplaying in the community. My favorite aspects of my characters are the relationships and changes that occur with them over time.

I think people need to learn that shit happens and if you die, it's just another interesting chapter that can make your character all the more memorable. And if they stay dead, well time to try some new character.
All bumbling conjurers, clumsy squires, no-talent bards, and cowardly thieves in the land will be preemptively put to death. My foes will surely give up and abandon their quest if they have no source of comic relief.
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#14
Yes, Rigley that's exactly it (and what I mean) -- an extra week of feebleness. I mean "unplayability" to let the character adjust to returning to the land of the living and all of that. :)
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#15
I voted other. Perhaps there can be a progression in terms of how long until you can resurrect. For every death, the length of time doubles. So first death is 1 week wait. Second is 2 weeks. Third is 1 month. Fouth is 2 months. etc etc etc.

The idea is that every death weakens the spirit, so it gets progressively harder to resurrect. I've been on a server where there was no official wait at all, and it can be pretty crazy to kill someone and the next day (and occasionally an hour later) for that person to just pop up like they were just going to the corner store. I understand why people don't want to wait to play their favorite chars, but if it becomes so easy to return from death, then I'm taking the bullet/sword/grenade every time, because I know I'm just gonna come back, mostly unscathed.

I know it seems harsh, but I've always felt that death is not needed to push a storyline forward. And in fact, a permanent death does much more to further a great story than a temporary one. X-Men fans may remember this panel from the Legacy Virus arc:

Spoiler:
[Image: Death_of_Colossus.jpg]

It has to be one of the most wonderful death scenes in comics. A selfless sacrifice from one of the most noble of characters, who had many ups and downs including the loss of his family and inner debate about whether Xavier's dream or Magneto's was the right one. And in his moment of truth, he gave his life so that his fellow mutants could live. At this moment, Colossus' legacy was immortal.....

....and then they brought him back. To basically have sex with Kitty Pride and get all sad when she was fired off on a giant bullet.

I guess what I'm saying is think before you die. Because a meaningful death is perhaps the best way you can honor an awesome character. They deserve to go out in style! And if you want to bring them back, bring them back with purpose.
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