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Revising Guild Sub-forum Policy
#1
So, about time we have a public discussion thread on this one.

Here's the issue: At the current moment, only two people are capable of adding guild sub-forums, as it requires Admin control: Myself and Kretol. While I would normally not have a problem doing this work, we're running into a bit of a problem.

Guild sub-forums end up being what often feels as a useless process. Guilds come and go at a very rapid rate on CotH, and very often guilds that get their own forum die out within a couple months. Even worse, usually such sub-forums rarely see any use outside of the first week, if even then. As a result, we come to a problem...the sub-forums are nice and the GM team near unanimously voted that they wanted them to stay, but the current requirements are either too easy to meet, or don't take into account what the guild intends on doing with said sub-forum. While creating a sub-forum isn't difficult, it is a little time-consuming, and so the end result is a system that feels wasteful. Work goes in, but very little is returned to show for it.

So we've come to something of a stalemate, trying to figure out the best way to reduce the work-load, while still making these things available to the guilds that actually need them and will put them to good use.

Any suggestions?
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#2
Every description of the concept draws my thoughts toward a comparison with customizing the game world.

...Mm. For something genuinely productive...
Increased selectivity?

Perhaps an application by way of that Private Discussion forum that's looking increasingly useful, laying out the intended use of the subforum and presenting examples of the initial posts that will go into it?

A review of the guild in question and how active and stable they and their concept seem and what have you?

As I see it, this can be accomplished by the general staff and the actual subforum construction occurs for those that pass this process.
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#3
You can put a limitation to the time the sub-forum will stay innactive. Like 30 days innactivity of the sub-forum will result a deletion of it.

On the other hand, you can make a "deal" with the person who requests it (the guild leader obviously), like.. He guarantees at least 50 posts or more per month, or anything you can imagine as a good deal, and if the deal won't be held by the guild side, will result a deletion of it.

I gave my two ideas that came up in my mind now.. I hope they helped you..

P.S An application wouldn't be a bad idea, like LostStranger said with his sensible argument.
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#4
(12-06-2011, 12:37 PM)Jester Wrote: You can put a limitation to the time the sub-forum will stay innactive. Like 30 days innactivity of the sub-forum will result a deletion of it.

That doesn't answer the fundamental concern that is waste of time.

Deleting the subforums simply bins the extended effort required to create it in the first place.

...That the deletions would be a chore in and of themselves doesn't help any.
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#5
One suggestion would be to up the number of required members in order to gain a subforum, maybe to like 15? 15 individual forum names, not just characters. The guild would also have to prove it's activity via events or even general RP? IE, if you get a request and go "Who'er they?", they might not need one. However, if you get a request and go "Ooh hey, that guild which ran X and X events,I know them!", they might be able to obtain one.
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#6
Yes, basically combine an active guild by both the number of active players, and the activity of the guild (events, as well as general roleplay).

If both of these requirements are achieved by the guild, you can start thinking about making a subforum.
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#7
There is a problem with the number quota--mainly in regards to who actually joins the guild, the purpose of the guild, and how this guild contributes to or generally involves the server.

To my knowledge, <The Love Exchange> is the only guild where the focus is aimed at the whole server and not just the members themselves. I've had invited clients to join, but they never stay. Currently, ever since I formed the guild at the restart, I only have around 7-8 members, all of them fairly active. Once or twice I would have 9, but that 9th member would leave. Meanwhile, our guild thread is clogging with profiles, discussions, and events, and part of the reason I cannot move forward with matchmaking and event discussion is because we're keeping all these discussions in one very big and very cluttered thread. Making more threads will clutter the guild forum more. I do have my own GM blog, but that blog is meant to serve the whole server -beyond- TLE. TLE would be an example of a guild that would really benefit with its own subforum without meeting a required number quota.

I am strongly against a minimum number quota, especially if the guild formed is meant to be open to everyone, not just those who join. Though I am thinking of alternatives in organizing profiles and other things for TLE (like Google Docs), still I am sure there are other guild players who may want a guild subforum while they have trouble meeting a number requirement.

I am not one, however, to put my own selfish needs before the needs of the server. I would like to see how everyone feels should be the justifications of getting their own guild subforums before I can decide on how I can improve TLE (really, this is one of many reasons why this guild has been put on hold...).
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#8
EDIT: Post redundant. Above poster quicker to the punch than I.

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(12-06-2011, 01:00 PM)Reigen Wrote: "Ooh hey, that guild which ran X and X events,I know them!"

I would be wary of declaring a set and specific criteria like this many members or this many events.

Guilds vary greatly in scale and function. Nebulous requirements would likely be for the better, I believe.
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#9
(12-06-2011, 01:00 PM)Reigen Wrote: One suggestion would be to up the number of required members in order to gain a subforum, maybe to like 15? 15 individual forum names, not just characters. The guild would also have to prove it's activity via events or even general RP? IE, if you get a request and go "Who'er they?", they might not need one. However, if you get a request and go "Ooh hey, that guild which ran X and X events,I know them!", they might be able to obtain one.

That would work a lot. It was an idea I thought of but hesitated to post it because I didn't complete my thoughts about it.

Like on other server's I've been on, this "Number" of players required for a(n) X thing is one of the most useful solutions. Because you have a general view of the situation and you can judge fairly. Of course the number of the players needed is your judgement, but 15 is a good number of people I guess..
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#10
If you're going to keep the minimum, though, and add an event/activity scale, the scale shouldn't just be, "You don't meet this? Too bad!" I believe it should vary. If a guild has, say, 5 members, then it shouldn't have to have as many events and whatnot as a guild with, say, 25 members.

Edit: I agree with Immy, too. Membership shouldn't matter so much; it should be what the guild does and the scope it covers that determine if the guild gets a forum.
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#11
Determining scales according to number of guild members can be fairly tricky. It's possible for a guild of 5 members to hold events as often as once a week versus a 25 member guild where RP is strictly casual with only one event every few months. Also, events may not be an entirely valid reason to have a subforum, especially since we have our own Event Planning forum.

We're thinking a case-by-case basis for now, though input on what other factors on deciding valid reasons for a guild subforum would be greatly appreciated.
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#12
Well I can imagine, in my opinion, that for a guild to get a subforum, it would require it to have both a large number of active players, as well as events. But, of course, a guild with not so many active players could make it up by making lots and lots of events, preferably neutral, in which the members that have signed up in the event only do not need to be in the guild itself. But not the other way around; a guild with many members, but no events just wouldn't work out.

EDIT: Well I guess Immy stole what I said. Eh. xD
"Life is offensive, people; it's brutal, stupid, annoying, dirty, and at the end, ******* pointless. Seriously, folks, you need to get a grip, alright? Relax yourself!" - Foamy

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#13
(12-06-2011, 01:13 PM)LostStranger Wrote: EDIT: Post redundant. Above poster quicker to the punch than I.

(12-06-2011, 01:36 PM)13kira13 Wrote: EDIT: Well I guess Immy stole what I said. Eh. xD



I seem to be stealing people's thunder today.
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#14
May have already been stated, but perhaps a good alternative would be to just have the guild explain its need for the subforum, and approve it if it seems worthy? The thing that strikes me about some guild subforums is that there's just no need for them. You could put events in event planning or personals, and so on. Meanwhile guilds like TLE and others could legitimately have a use for a subforum in terms of organization and so forth.

Of course, adding this explanation to some other requirements wouldn't hurt.
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#15
Sad to say that the event planning forum is...pretty much ignored. The only events that really get word out there are the ones that a GM posts on the front page. If a normal player posts for one, it just gets washed out and ignored up until the deadline. At least in a guild sub-forum, those who go to find any sort of updated info will have a section for events right there.

I know that with my event, no one even heard of it even though it was posted about a month in advance because no one bothered to check the event planning area.

Everyone also has a different means of organization. For me, as I have been waiting for a rename on the sub-forum thus haven't used it, I would do different posts for guild ranks, events, contracts and perhaps even a little news-letter about things relevant to the guild. Each rank in the guild might get it's own thread in order for things to be kept where it should be, so on and so forth.

A member requirement could be one of the things needed if the person handling the request does not know the guild and needs some proof of activity of interest in the guild. Perhaps require a screenshot that shows that the people are actually logging in vs. just making a character, putting it in the guild and never logging on it again. Sort of like, "Oh, I know X guild here, they don't have 10 members, but boy are they active for the server!" and "Huh, dunno who these guys are, but they have 20 different forum names for members who have all been active this month, so I guess they do have activity."

Each request would be handled case-by-case I assume as there are different circumstances for each guild. Some guilds might just have a tag for the leader and avoid tags on members due to meta-gaming fears. They still have members, just not with a tag over their head. They might want a sub-forum for organizing events/hit contracts/pony rides/whatever, but don't really have a member backing. Such a case would have to be judged different. [To be honest, who doesn't try to avoid RPing alone with someone with a generic assassin guild tag over their head?]

I suppose it wouldn't so much be requirements as it would be a guide into helping the admin decide what needs to be done. 10 members could be a guideline for when someone isn't sure, but one could easily take a guild for 5 active members that holds events over a guild with 20 members that just runs around in booty bay all day talking about killing others in front of guards.
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