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Rigley Rambles: On Respect
#1
Evening friends,


There's a topic which has been increasingly brought up to me. It's hands down to me the most commonly cited rule, and over the course of my time as a GM I'm sad to say it is likely the one most broken as well.

With that forward out of the way...

CotHWiki Wrote:Be respectful. At all times. This is not optional. Show respect to your fellow players, regardless of their faction or affiliation. We are all playing this game to enjoy it, and being rude or disrespectful to another player does not enhance anyone's enjoyment. If it enhances your own enjoyment, you undoubtedly do not belong on this server. Being respectful is easy enough if you think about it. Even players that you dislike or seem unable to get along with can be treated with respect. When all else fails, the IGNORE filter is in place for a reason.
Respect GM requests and decisions, and treat them as final. Do not argue over kicks, suspensions, or bans unless you HONESTLY feel it was a case of mistaken identity. In that case, you may contact Grakor and make your case. If it is determined that it was not a case of mistaken identity, then do not argue further.
If you are not the person who was suspended, do not appeal kicks, suspensions, or bans. This is the business of the kicked/suspended/banned player ONLY. If you insist on speaking on the behalf of someone else, you will be suspended. Don't do it. Also, if you were banned, and you come back, you will be banned AGAIN. Don't look so shocked.
Defiance of GMs also lies under this rule. If a GM tells you to do something, DO IT. Even if you don't agree with it. If you have a concern, bring it up with Grakor via PM.

I've talked briefly on the matter of respect in the past. I think it deserves its own spill of text this time, though, so that I may fully formulate my thoughts.

The rule of respect is rule number one for a reason. It isn't a matter which is negotiable, and it isn't a rule that is hard to discern. Unlike a retail server, CotH isn't one in which deep dislike and hatred lends itself well to. Unlike retail, you are more likely than not to see the same players when you get on every day. The crowd isn't massive; while it may be big, it's difficult to say that every day you'll meet a new person, or will never know any of the people online in the slightest.

CotH isn't a server built off of anonymity, and neither is RP in general. Roleplayers make friends with other roleplayers, collaborate on stories and develop characters together-- That's difficult to do with those you don't trust or simply do not know. This also goes hand in hand with respect, as with respect comes trust and civility. If you want a reason to give respect to your fellow players I would encourage you to check an argument on the official WoW forums; it isn't usually the most inspiring sight, suffice to say.

Respect is just something that should be innate. I'm always surprised, then, when the following arguments are presented to me.

Strawman Wrote:I'm not disrespectful, I just don't walk on eggshells when it comes to saying how I feel.
Strawman Wrote:I'm not rude-- I just don't sugarcoat things.

Allow me to retort with an example of my own, in this case.

Strawman Bill Wrote:Those pants don't suit you.
Strawman Dave Wrote:You look fat in those.
Strawman Steve Wrote:You don't look so good in those, but that's just how they're made.

Obviously my favored of these is the first, but allow me to highlight exactly why.
Strawman Dave Wrote:You look fat in those.
Dave is what many people might call as 'blunt', including airquotes. But, to lift a page out of the dictionary...

Quote:Blunt: characterized by directness in manner or speech; without subtlety or evasion. outspoken; direct and to the point.

So is this definition accomplished in Dave's speech? You could say so. He's definitely not beating around the bush on his opinion, that's for sure. There is a point though where you cross a line between 'blunt' and 'rude', though; While Dave's statement does convey that he doesn't like the look of the clothes on nondescriptA, there's also simply a lack of tact that colors it into an offensive light.

Meanwhile Steve has gone too far in the other direction. They want to tell the person what they think, but they also want to comfort them. While not necessarily bad, it also tends to pass the blame off to something else-- it can somewhat give the impression that a mistake isn't at the fault of the guilty party, but is rather explained away in another fashion.

In the end Bill accomplishes what the other two fail to. While nondescriptA may not enjoy being told that they don't look good in what they're wearing, there isn't any kind of edge to the comment which turns it from a personal opinion to a personal attack upon them.

On that note, I fully realize that there are some people who enjoy making personal attacks. There are people who think it is fun to put some grit onto their criticism and to spruce up their arguments with colorful language, both in terms of profanity and otherwise. To that, I refer you to this:

CotHWiki Wrote:being rude or disrespectful to another player does not enhance anyone's enjoyment. If it enhances your own enjoyment, you undoubtedly do not belong on this server.

If insulting others gets you kicks, then get out. We don't want you.


Another comment I've heard in the past is that Rule 1 can be one-sided. Some feel they give respect to GMs and players which isn't returned, and thus they feel validated to withhold that. To that I give you this:

CotHWiki Wrote:If a GM tells you to do something, DO IT. Even if you don't agree with it. If you have a concern, bring it up with Grakor via PM.

This has been done in the past, and it has worked, for those unaware. While it may be difficult to swallow your pride, complying with the rules means that you can't be held at fault, above other things. If you have complaints, voice them to an administrator-- I can assure you that making angry comments out of sight and breaking a rule in response to a breach of a rule will not make you the better person. If you have an issue with another user or a GM, you shouldn't be the one to enforce those complaints if you feel you cannot do so in a civil manner. The GM team exists for a reason, and it is more than to give aid in RP.

Speaking of being the better person:

CotHWiki Wrote:Even players that you dislike or seem unable to get along with can be treated with respect.

Odds are you aren't chummy with everyone on CotH. Odds are that there are people you even greatly disliked-- And that's find; just the normal workings of things. No one is asking anyone to hug one another or prance around singing songs; as much as it would improve the server, you simply can't force people to like one another. Above all else, what we want in terms of respect here on CotH is civility. Making that work through the internet can be hard for some people; it is easy to find yourself talking to a wall of text, and not another person on the other side of the screen. To be unable to make that distinction is not something others should be forced to just stand by and deal with.


I'm not sure if this post fully conveys what I mean it to. But heck, that's usually about any post I make. I hope there's some knowledge to be gleaned here. That's it from me, for now.
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#2
Curse you Rigley, for your well made and agreeable posts.

I SHALL OVERCOME YOU THOUGH!
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#3
Thank you for taking the time to write this out with examples, Rigley. I think it really helps illustrate the point on how blunt can be rude and disrespectful. One doesn't always need to sugarcoat things to be honest and civil, but they don't have to be blunt and antagonistic either.

Ultimately, we're all here for the same reasons, right? To make stories together and have some fun rp like you mentioned. Really, it is an instance of that timeless rule: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated."

And if you just can't bring yourself to be civil and someone is frustrating you, just take a break from your computer. Chill out and take some time for you. Everyone has their limits, that is reasonable. It's just how we deal with them that matters.

<3's for everyone. :3
[Image: Lirshar_zpscaa814f0.png]
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#4
(11-04-2011, 10:28 PM)ChampionMouse Wrote: One doesn't always need to sugarcoat things to be honest and civil, but they don't have to be blunt and antagonistic either.

I also like to point out that blunt isn't necessarily being antagonistic, or even mean in general. It's just what people have come to associate it with, largely from how people brandish it as a catch-all excuse for their behavior.

To me, being blunt has always been the in between-- showing neither an angry nor patronizing tone. Just stating your opinion. Of course, there's a difference of when your opinion is hurtful and when your words themselves are hurtful. Someone might be offended that you don't think their character is well-played, but they will certainly be offended if you tell them the concept is moronic.
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#5
True, true. Good point. I guess many people just have particular responses to blunt. When I was growing up, in my family it was always very unacceptable and punishable to be forward, so I guess for me it typically has a negative connotation so that's how I was thinking about it.

I get where you're coming from though, so that makes sense.
[Image: Lirshar_zpscaa814f0.png]
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#6
Devil's advocate post following:

While I quite agree that one should not be antagonistic or deliberately hurtful, and that one should not 'sugarcoat' and deceive in doing so, I would hold that at times the sting of criticism is unavoidable.

"That dress does not match your hair" is blunt; "That dress makes you look fat" may also be blunt. Perhaps the dress does make one look fat; its terrible padding and horizontal stripes makes even the most slender of women look chunky. Being able to say so without hurtfulness is an art; being able to accept such a comment with grace is even more commendable.

There is a difference between someone not roleplaying their character well, and an idea simply being bad. A cyborg catgirl in Warcraft (my own straw man!) is not a good idea, and there is no improvement that will change that. The sharp pain of being told so (in my rather Darwinist take on the matter) is not ill-placed. Now, it would be in poor form to mock or belittle the person who proposed it, but to patronize even more so.

All too often, I see truly teeth-grinding proposals introduced, and upon the imminent outrage at something truly and egregiously ill-conceived, the respect rule comes down like an iron fist and truncates all criticism of said idea. Something similar happened in my own feedback thread in ages past, which while I appreciate the reason it was done, irritated me--even if some of the comments were rude, many of the criticisms directed at me and my roleplay were legitimate. I strive to learn from criticism, even if unnecessarily harsh.

Aren't I just special?

While this admittedly makes it sound as though I'm simply being defensive (I do like to think that I am polite even during deconstruction) I must hold that players who take criticism poorly are as much of or more of an issue than those who antagonize them. I see a lot of talk encouraging people to 'stick to their guns,' and I have to say...yes, do stick to your guns, but when a lot of people start telling you that you're doing it wrong, you are almost certainly doing something wrong.

Not all discourtesy must be coarse and overt; responding to criticism with "That's your opinion, colon-close-parentheses," isn't mature. It's best to at least weigh what is being said, or politely acknowledge it and explain why you choose to disregard comments made. Such behavior really does come across as goading at best, and as an exploitation of authority at worst. It seems like trolling to me, but with more of an ulterior motive; "If I just use lots of smileyfaces and refuse to address criticism, the GMs will be bound by the rules to spring to my defense when my opponents inevitably become frustrated."

While it does exasperate me that the aforementioned critics seem to fall into this trap (whether or not it was deliberately set) I can entirely understand that it causes frustration to eventually fester.

What I am trying to say in my characteristically over-thought and roundabout way is this:

Yes, the blame lies upon those who antagonize, and yes, it often lies also upon those being criticized. All I ask is that we not demonize the the former party with the complete exclusion of the latter.
i am geko
i live heer
and my favorite food is crikkits
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#7
Nicely written. I almost envy your coherence, but then I remember to slap myself before I turn green.

I'm reminded of an old thread, A vouch for Brutal Honesty, and something I'd written a lifetime or two ago...
It was late in the February of this year.
LostStranger Wrote:
Spiralin Wrote:Well, it's just that the truth hurts, and being hurt may come across as disrespect. If it's found disrespectful, then it's pretty brutally truthful. Whether you want to see it or not, that's the truth.
Not everything a man says is true, nor is there but one way to say something.

EDIT: Wkagkwmaglkawmgw, incoherent strings of profanity, and claws of cold fingers through my hair.

I rather stress that I don't mean this as reply to one hiddengecko, a thought I feel especially propelled to clarify in light of the direct retorts to him I've posted of recent.
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#8
About time someone made a thread like this. Excellent writing, Rigley, and if I may add...



On Criticism:

One person criticizing one thing is something to consider.

A handful of people criticizing one thing is really something to think about...

One or a couple of people criticizing the same thing a hundred of times is something to ignore.


I agree with LostStranger on this. Not everything is black and white. Criticism is there to help, not humiliate or try to force your taste on others. If something makes you cringe and grind your teeth, try to make your point -without- being extremely offensive. Put up your point, but also remember to respect the other party. If you listen to the other side, it will surely listen to you.


One thing that has grown awfully a lot in the next week too is the "trope" pointing. Jesus. Why? Tvtropes is pretty much creating these tropes to point certain facts out and to make us all have a good laugh. It isn't a Wikipedia or a guidebook of life. Everything has a trope, technically. Hell, real people can be made of these. Characters will be just huge hubs for them.

Pointing that "hey, your character follows the awfully-evil-wannabe trope" isn't the polite and respectful way to put it, especially when one is asking for opinions and suggestions, not criticism, as I've seen in a recent thread made by one of our fellow players.

Now, if we were to mention how people take OOC disrespect IC... Oh boy...

But that's something for another day, on another thread.


Great job, Rigley. Thank you for taking your time to write a thread like this.
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#9
I just read a MLP fanfic in preperation for the new episode coming out in thirty minutes. So it would appear my mind's in a jolly good enough mood to write this up!

The idea here is not that you shouldn't offer others criticism. Far from it. Criticism aids others in improving and bettering themselves. After all, if we were told everything we did was perfect, then we would never change or improve.

However. However! There is a way to criticize. An art to the act of giving one advice on what to do in the future. Which is perhaps something that I feel has been forgotten as of late. We seem to forget all too often that our criticism is ultimately against another human being. Someone we should treat with respect, compassion, and most important of all, kindness.

When criticizing it is incredibly important to be kind to others. More so than other times, because you are essentially saying 'what you are doing is wrong in my opinion'. Telling someone that he/she is wrong is one of the quickest ways to spark up a furious argument. However. There are -ways- to do this. Some ruder than others. Some glossing over the subject. And some being honest and good criticism. Criticism where you're respectful of the other individual, and don't treat him/her like dirt beneath your hoof. Sorry. Boot.

Everypony has feelings. You do too, right? So. Think about some big ol' mother-hubbin' jerk coming over and just stomping all over everything you do. That's just rude. I don't care how blunt it is. How to the point it might be. That's rude. It's just putting somepony down, and crushing his or her hard work. We should be respectful to what wonderful things others create, even if they don't fit entirely within Warcraft lore. If this idea absolutely doesn' belong, then the young filly should kindly be informed of such. If worst comes to worst, kindly tell him/her that well, it's just not Conquestria's style. And maybe he/she might want to seek out another place that doesn't care about the lore like we do.

Ultimately what I'm asking for here is that everypony should be more considerate of others. Whether or not you like them. And regardless of whether or not you think their ideas are absolutely rediculous. You should take a deep breath, smile, and say 'I'm going to help this person'. The key idea there is helping. Don't be that big mean old buck stomping on everyone's sandcastles. Instead, sit down and help your fellow ponies create their sandcastles, and tell them what will and won't work in Conquestria -politely-.

Maybe the other person is completely in the wrong. Maybe we don't have B-52s or machine guns in Warcraft. Well, when you tell this person that what he/she's doing is wrong, do it -respectfully-. I don't see why the respect rule is hated so much. It reminds everypony that we're all individuals with our own tastes. And we should respect the tastes of our fellow ponies.

Think about it when you criticize something. Think 'do I really need to say this'. Because I'm willing to bet that if you stay just a little humble, you'll find that half the time you initially feel you really need to post something, with a bit of thought you'll quickly realize that it doesnt really need to be said.

Anywhooo. Don't take this as me saying 'you shouldn't criticize others'! Far from it! Just be respectful when you do such. There's no need to be 'blunt'. And there's no need to be 'super gushy' and 'soft' about it. Offer criticism. But be mindful of it.

I know if I wanted to I could create some big ol' mother-hubbin' post about everything I would criticize on CotH. Oh the things that could be said. All you people and your silly facades. But is it necessary? No. Sure, I made that Blood Elf post a while back. But I feel as though it was a respectful criticism initially. Now look to the end of that thread (if you're so inclined) and see just how snippy everypony was getting. It went from a good discussion where we criticized something honestly, to -that-.


If we all just showed a little more respect to one another, Conquestia would be a better place! After all, you can't have true friendship without respect.

And who wouldn't want true friendship? I mean, come on everypony, we all know that...

Friendship is Magic!
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#10
You made me a better pony, Xigo.
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#11
“Before you speak, think -Is it necessary? Is it true? Is it kind? Will it hurt anyone? Will it improve on the silence?”

~ Sri Sathya Sai Baba
10,000 days in the fire is long enough,
You're going home...
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#12
Respect is somewhat of a valuable commodity nowadays, isn't it?
Not only in the game, but everywhere - Specially the internet.
It's really easy to become a critic or a bully - The so called "trolls" - when you can say whatever you want and not face the damage you've done or the consequences for your actions.

Which is a gigantic downside to being anonymous. Some people can't handle any type of recognition - even the recognition of being unrecognized, although I apologize if the point of this particular sentence doesn't quite come across.

When you read CotH's rules, you can really sum them all down to respect, y'know?

Because, it's respectful to be tolerant. It's respectful to be mature. It's respectful to know when to quit, it's even respectful to let someone choose the sort of roleplay they want.

It's respectful to be humble, to avoid godmodding, to not steal other people's image or works;

Respect is the base on what CotH is made, and it reflects society well.
In every community, you have a hierarchy of respect, if you'll pardon the tangent.

People form opinions. They always are going to have someone they respect more and someone they respect less.

The fine line lies behind what respect stands for, and what recognition or reputation stand for. In this sense, being respectful is not it's literal sense -
Spoiler:
re·spect
noun
-esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability: I have great respect for her judgment.
- but rather, what respect comes with.

The point of this thread - correct me if I'm wrong - and the point of the respect rules is not that you are enforced to respect nor recognize worth that to you may or may not hold actual moral value.

The respect here mentioned stems from the necessity to understand, not to recognize.
-
I ramble a lot.
-
Carrying on.

What can't be emphasized enough is that the current lack of respect's source is our inability to see through the eyes of the other. Be it during a moment of tension or on a general basis.

That leads to attrition, and eventually to discussion - which only works to fan the flames.

And sometimes we just can't help being mad. We can't. Sometimes a lot of sh-tuff pilled up IRL, and we can't refrain ourselves from being more easily annoyed, or getting pissed off. That's, to an extent, fine.

What I'd suggest is finding another outlet. When I'm pissed off, I talk to anyone who's not involved about it and keep any unproductive or irresponsible comment away from the main conversation.
(Delta, Avon, Nexi, hiddengecko, ChampionMouse? Thanks for bearing with me, there.)

...Now then, what did I want to say here, again?

Right, moving on.

- I think Xigo said everything I wanted to say, and I'm mostly out of constructive remarks here.

Oh! Yes.

Enforcing opinions.
This happens a lot on CotH.
"You're not just wrong. You're wrong and I'm right and I will not give you a single moment of peace until you agree to my views."
This behavior needs to stop, and it's pretty easy to spot and self-explanatory. I've yet to see a lore-war (people that stay in OOCC/GMI a lot know exactly what I'm referring to) where either side agrees. Either someone completely mysterious shows up in a dress and begins dancing to make the argument impossible to continue, or he's too involved trying to make it stop with reason (Silly him, like reason can beat a dress.) to do it and it just follows it's natural course:

1-> Someone asks question
2-> Question is answered
3-> Completely irrelevant topic is raised.
4 -> Unnecessary rebuttal.
5-> Attempt to mediate with polite response.
6-> Demand for sources.
7 to 15 -> Complete rage that completely erase any validity to the argument
16 (Rare) -> Agree to disagree, argument moves on.
17 -> GM steps in.
18 -> People start holding grudges and becoming bitter towards each other.
19 -> Steps 1 to 18 repeat themselves on a consistently basis.

...Which brings us to the point I'd like to raise, as this thread seems fitting, and to my question.

Why not stop at step 2?
Really, it's a perfectly good step to stop at. We can even add "???" and "Profit!" afterwards if you feel it'd be better. Like this:

1-> Someone asks question.
2-> Question is answered.
3-> ???
4-> Profit!

Beautiful, isn't it?


Anyway, I apologize for my not-funny-at-all attempt to get one - or more - points across, and I hope a few people relate, recognize and maybe even (god forbid) improve.



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#13
What Uthaniel said...

My thoughts exactly... I can't quite find the link, but I remember an article I've read on Cracked.com that pointed a few facts about humans, one of them being "how much do we love picking fights and arguments". Basically, it described the following: You see something you don't like. You disagree with that something. It won't affect you if you leave it quiet. You can just turn around and go do something else. You don't. You go right against what you don't like and hit it head-on, wanting to change that something you don't like into something you like. But there's a problem! That -something- you don't like is -something- liked by others. So, you're in another stop. You can turn around and let people like what they want. Or you can go right against them and also force them to dislike that. Unfortunately, some want to pick the second option, and that's where respect should come in.

I think this image describes perfectly some of the situations in CoTH:

Spoiler:
[Image: Stop_liking.jpg]

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#14
(11-05-2011, 04:48 AM)Xigo Wrote: Words!

EVERYPONY HRNNNNNG.

But as much as I hate to agree with the horsification of language here, this more or less sums up what my intent was.

And Gecko (whether this was the intention or not), I don't think it's right to play the blame game. In reality both sides are at fault, yes, but both also have to answer for their actions. If one person breaches the rules while they're in discussion with another, then what more can we do?

It's been said before. If it comes to the point where you're seething, step away from the computer. Listen to some music from Kirby's Epic Yarn. Go pet a cat, or a dog, or a squirrel if you have good reflexes. Or if it is just an issue you cannot stand to drop, bring it to a GM for resolution, because when we're involved the burden is off of you. Do -something- to prevent an outburst if you feel one coming.

HiddenGecko Wrote:even if some of the comments were rude, many of the criticisms directed at me and my roleplay were legitimate. I strive to learn from criticism, even if unnecessarily harsh.

The issue here though is that those people -could- have left constructive feedback without being unnecessarily harsh, though. I never said that anger completely ends legitimacy; it's just that some people (like me) fail to give it full weight when it comes accompanied with seething rage.

And at any rate, what are we to do otherwise? A breach in a rule is a breach in a rule. If people can get away with rude critique on your thread, then does that give others a free pass elsewhere too? It's one of those terms I hate to use, but in the eyes of others it can set a precedence.


To put this in perspective, I've had to enforce this rule of respect for players I don't particularly like in the past as well-- some of them with which I've had rather firm moral quandaries about. You can be civil with any person, even if you can't bring yourself to be friendly. I don't believe there's any real excuse otherwise.
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#15
(11-05-2011, 08:40 AM)Rigley Wrote: It's been said before. If it comes to the point where you're seething, step away from the computer...if it is just an issue you cannot stand to drop, bring it to a GM for resolution, because when we're involved the burden is off of you. Do -something- to prevent an outburst if you feel one coming.

I'm inclined to agree; I am playing devil's advocate, as I said. I question more how this is often seen as victimization rather than a simple breach of policy; I do not think it is excusable or should go without discipline when it does happen. I simply believe that the issue of guilt in 'too-harsh criticism' is seen in black and white too often.

(11-05-2011, 08:40 AM)Rigley Wrote:
HiddenGecko Wrote:even if some of the comments were rude, many of the criticisms directed at me and my roleplay were legitimate. I strive to learn from criticism, even if unnecessarily harsh.

The issue here though is that those people -could- have left constructive feedback without being unnecessarily harsh, though. I never said that anger completely ends legitimacy; it's just that some people (like me) fail to give it full weight when it comes accompanied with seething rage.

Quite true; but I appreciate the deconstruction--harsh or not. And frankly, my Draenei pirate was an awful idea and deserved every single label of 'lorefail' it got. I wouldn't apply the same label to others, but I'd hardly fault someone else (in a moral or personal sense) for doing so--although, as a stance on policy I can and do entirely understand why; I follow it myself because by playing on this server I have implicitly agreed to its rules. Anger does often sap a counterpoint of its legitimacy, so do believe me when I say I do take issue when people give in to it--particularly if they're on my side!

(11-05-2011, 08:40 AM)Rigley Wrote: If people can get away with rude critique on your thread, then does that give others a free pass elsewhere too? It's one of those terms I hate to use, but in the eyes of others it can set a precedence.

You can be civil with any person, even if you can't bring yourself to be friendly. I don't believe there's any real excuse otherwise.

This is true. I don't fault you for enforcing policy; I simply (as you pointed out!) do believe that moral blame, if there is in fact any, is shared by both parties or may be assigned to either.

As for the second point, I agree; civility should always be followed even in the case of direct criticism--and I do find it rather exasperating when even a semblance of courteous conduct cannot be followed. The truth is sometimes cruel; this is unavoidable, but to deliver it with more pain than is necessary is petty and immature.

While frustration that someone will not change is understandable (and let's not sugarcoat this; it is often over serious and legitimate issues), causing harm via internet bullying is really quite silly. Nothing is gained by either party, save perhaps some modicum of often poisonous catharsis by the aggressor. It's best to let reason do the work, if it's not out to lunch.

Now, to respond to Saiyuu's additions!

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: One person criticizing one thing is something to consider.
A handful of people criticizing one thing is really something to think about...
One or a couple of people criticizing the same thing a hundred of times is something to ignore.

Apologies for being contradictory, but I think the thought behind this is faulty. Granted, simply because something is controversial does not mean that it's wrong, but nigh-unanimous or criticism (or even the ire of a vocal minority) almost always warrants serious consideration.

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: Criticism is there to help, not humiliate or try to force your taste on others. If something makes you cringe and grind your teeth, try to make your point -without- being extremely offensive. Put up your point, but also remember to respect the other party.

Well-said.

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: If you listen to the other side, it will surely listen to you.

I so desperately wish it were so.

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: One thing that has grown awfully a lot in the next week too is the "trope" pointing. Jesus.

Pointing that "hey, your character follows the awfully-evil-wannabe trope" isn't the polite and respectful way to put it, especially when one is asking for opinions and suggestions, not criticism, as I've seen in a recent thread made by one of our fellow players.

Guilty as charged--not that I'll ever stop linking appropriate tropes. I apply them to my own work, as well. They're tools for categorizing and pointing out tendencies in fiction--and Tropes are Not Bad! There are some, however, that are, and there are some which aren't but are not appropriate applied to the tone set by this server.

The linking is a way of invoking a common concept or label and assigning it an article which may be read to further explain it in a manner more concise than simply going over it in the thread itself.

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: Now, if we were to mention how people take OOC disrespect IC... Oh boy...

If you've grievances with another player over this issue (which I can empathize with; I have had to deal with this same thing before) bringing it up in such a fashion comes across as passive-aggressive and petty, even if being so was not your intent.

(11-05-2011, 04:17 AM)saiyuu Wrote: But that's something for another day, on another thread.
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