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The Disciplinary Process
#61
(03-21-2013, 09:42 AM)Grakor456 Wrote: Don't be hasty in judging bans that you are not personally involved in. I know it's difficult to keep this in mind, and we are partial to believing our friends, but without the full set of knowledge, you can't make a fair judgment.

I could not have said it better myself.


I would like to voice the short of my opinion. I had a massive post written out, but realized I was pretty much just hot air, which happens for some reason when I listen to classical music.

I've been around for a while, too. I was on staff very quickly after I joined, and continuing to be (if I recall correctly) the longest standing continuous GM apart from the admins. I have seen not only how COTH breathes and reacts, but how the blood flows and the mind works as a whole, for a long time, and I have to say that I will never support an elective-democratic representative system. I believe that it will be an ultimate evil as opposed to a necessary detriment that the current aristocracy the staff is chosen by. I stand by the belief that it will eventually lead to a spiraling corruption that I frankly do not want to be a part of if it were to occur. I have a deep reason for such, and those that wish to understand greater may contact me on Skype via my username: "ophelia.loves.hamlet" without quotations.

There is a lot going on this thread, but I have to say: If you feel yourself or someone else was wronged or punished too quickly and without warning do not hesitate to speak to Kretol or Grakor about it. It sounds as though so many people feel wronged because of bans and are choosing to wait until now to voice it. This happened at pretty much every Meet and Greet Cressy ran, in which players would just not speak to Kretol or even the staff as a whole (Which is what our private discussion board is there for, mind you!) and let it go in an open venue for whatever reason they possessed. The staff, and even more so the Admins, are there to help in these situations. You won't be punished for stepping forward.

That being said, on my final point: Breaking a zero tolerance rule or another rule with a great severity is a moral dilemma that is hard to get around. If someone were to log in today and make fun of me for being gay, something I find very personal, I would be infuriated if they were not banned immediately. The zero tolerance rule covers harassment of any kind from one player to another. Sexual, race, religion, and gender fall under here, as well as general harassment.

Zero tolerance is there for a reason, and we have every player read the rules as they join. They have not changed, and that should be your theoretical 'Miranda Rights'. Granted, not everyone knows they are doing wrong, and if someone issued a sincere apology it might placate me or another person who may be offended, but I stand by my point. The staff tells you to read the rules when you join, so there is no excuse for not knowing them. We all read them, or were supposed to, but the players can still plead the fifth. We still have open venues for people to return or voice their issues, which are very often such shared with the staff.

I do not recall a case in which someone was banned immediately, without warning, having not broken a zero tolerance rule or evading a previous ban. Ever. I do not know what happened to warrant people being unhappy about someone being banned, I don't even know who it was, but if I had to take a blind guess based on my almost four years on staff, I would have to say it was most likely not without due process.

Also, change for the sake of change does not lead anyone anywhere. If you're truly unhappy with something, please vocalize it instead of letting it spread and get worse.

Also to those who read this, please add me on skype just because. I'm lonely.

...

:(
[Image: wMRLoCF.gif]
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#62
(03-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Anski Wrote: Also to those who read this, please add me on skype just because. I'm lonely.

...

:(

We would if we knew your skype name.

Nerd.
Spoiler:


"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
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#63
I put it in there if you could read.

Krent.
[Image: wMRLoCF.gif]
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#64
I know personally, I find some of the crap I did embarrassing, and wouldn't want others to know about it. Like, if there was this transparency with the crap people get banned for, or who was subbing the screenshots of the instances that led to others bans---who exactly would that help? Are people calling to see exactly -everything- everyone else does, or... what's the overall goal here?

Calling it Orwellian is funny to me. Why? Because this is a gaming server where the moderators ban people that are disruptive, but try to preserve their privacy as well as everyone involved. We could end up airing out spats between people that just... puts this stuff out there.

Some players have petty fights with eachother. That'd exacerbate this stuff. They don't shame people here, and that's a bad thing? I really, really disagree.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#65
(03-22-2013, 08:39 PM)Anski Wrote: I put it in there if you could read.

Krent.

Oh, well. Yeah, you did. Uhhhh....



www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3VTIHyl2SA




........I don't really have anything to add on-topic like. I see this as another pointless COTHtroversy™ that everyone is getting bent out of shape over for no reason. Everyone is wrong and everyone is right for different reasons and there have been times where mistakes have been made and nothing is perfect and everything is silly silly silly all the time because everyone has to be in everyone else's business and can never let anything go no matter how many years pass and its kinda dizzying especially when you're sleep deprived and procrastinating on actual work.

Plus, this is a private server. Like, someone's property, and stuff. If Kretol decided to take the machine that hosts COTH, drive it to a 7-11, fill it up with a cherry big-gulp, drive the slurpee-filled COTH machine out to a hotel room, plug it in and turn it on to melt the slurpee, and then tie a bungee cord to it, duct-tape a few fire crackers to it, and then throw it out the window at full voltage so that the firecrackers ignite and then throw the computer the window while it dangles off the bungee cord outside everywhere and it explodes in a giant mess of cherry slurpee goodness while a sign flashes HAPPY SPRING ASTROLOGICAL NEAR YEARS blares in the background....well.

That's his choice, y'know? There really ain't nothing stopping COTH from just like, blinking outta existence. Could all go bloof, tomorrows. And there isn't anything anyone could do about it. 'Cept Kret, of course.



Yep.
Spoiler:


"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
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#66
I want a cherry slurpie now. That's what I take from your post.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#67
(03-22-2013, 08:53 PM)Krent Wrote: COTHtroversy™

QFT. I don't see the point of bringing a topic like this into a public thread where everybodies opinions can melt together into a ball of injustice and disapproval. I believe it's better to deal with such issues on a case-by-case basis... sure they will continue to crop up, but that's what the GM team is for, no? Dealing with such things personally. Those that have issues with the bans should have it explained to them privately instead of everybody posting in this thread, which creates a feel of entire community 'drama', instead of what it actually is- a few people having questions or doubts about bans.
"Do not be fooled if you hear laughter, or happen upon a smile. There is no happiness or merriment here."
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#68
I'm going to hate myself at 6:00 in the morning, but OK

Reigen, I wanted the most important post to come first. I couldn't just put you on the back burner. Baby come back! /80smusic

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote:
Quote: And I think election of GMs would be pretty nifty to keep their opinions diverse.

I'm going to echo Rensin and say that I feel this would just become a popularity contest. Just because someone is popular does not mean they would make a good GM. The GMs that are picked need to fit in with the vision Kretol has for the server. It is, in the end, his server. If he wants X, Y and Z enforced, he needs to trust that the people chosen as a GM are going to enforce X, Y and Z without complaint.

Yes.

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote: Do I agree with everything on the server that may or may not be allowed? No, I don't, but I'm still going to enforce it even if I feel differently about it. That is my job as a GM. In my opinion, personal opinions really have no place beyond when it comes to something you're not 100% sure of. If I don't know about Y, I can offer an opinion, but it wouldn't be anything firm, which is why when I say something is of my opinion, it means I'm opening it up for me to be proven wrong. Opinions =/= facts.

Yes, well, except the fact that it's in your opinion that facts aren't opinions. Wait, what? Don't respond to that, I'm being silly.

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote:
Quote:GMs claimed to have better themselves but don't allow us to better the rules of CotH.

We look at, reword and edit our rules more than most people think. We do question our own policies a lot to see if it fits with what would be best with the server of it it should be changed to allow more leg-room/less leg-room in some areas. To say we're not bending our rules and policies is very frustrating to me.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I'd like to point out a major point in my arguement is that I know that the GM's are bending the rules, just not in favor of the players; in fact, without contributions from the players. There'll be more on that for later.

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote: Things we can do now that we couldn't when I first joined:
Freely roll DHs, Dragonsworn and Felsworn via special profiles.
Have access to prestige classes as normal profiles.
Play guards.
Play non-standard races. [CMCs]
Build custom areas with the patch.
Vouches are gone as are all tokens beyond Bronze, and those may disappear come cata!

Maybe vouches will come back /crosses fingers. . .

But really, I hope I'm not coming out like I don't appreciate all the cool things we've developed. Because I do, a lot, haha.

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote: Yet all thats ever demanded is more, more more! Everything that has been changed gets ignored because something new and shiny comes into light and once again the GMs are being told that we're being too strict and not bending our policies enough for the players.

Keep in mind that this mostly goes behind closed curtains. If we are discussing something, chances are you wont hear about it until we know for certain we want to go ahead and do that. No sense in getting hopes up if we can't follow though with it.

But the problem is exactly that; players are left out of the picture only for the staff to rise from the curtains, throwing down principles and policies or something else-- and that these things are made FOR the player with little input FROM the player. . .Or maybe there is? I don't think so.

I understand there's a sine wave of wants, like a pattern even, and I think it's important that down the road we try to look at it like that seriously. I kind of want to say more but I also kind of want to sleep, so I'm going to address this in my next post tommorow.

(03-22-2013, 07:10 PM)Reigen Wrote:
Quote:GM's are so similar in their opinions

I'm going to take a moment to not be serious: *deep breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA- no.

It gets really frustrating as it is now because so many of us have so many different ideas for the server that we butt heads more times than I care to admit. As said, some of us are strict and some of us are looser. I will admit that I am not as forgiving as some other GMs on the team, which puts me at odds with a few of them. I'm always willing to compromise, however, unless I 100% think that something does not fit with the lore.

No matter the outcome in the end, something will always be a 'Team Decision' even if not the whole team agrees with it, which as loxie says, paints as as wholly unified. We do always try to come out with something that everyone can at least be happy with. I can safely say that every idea is debated before its publicly presented. We don't all just look at something, go 'I agree' and call it a day. There's always someone going "Wait a minute...".

Gonna touch on that tommorow, give it some special attention.

(03-22-2013, 07:59 PM)Rensin Wrote: That was me he was talking about. I had an alternate account so that I could RP without getting item request every five minutes and also actually get some RP since people avoided me like the plague. I also had found some stuff happening and probably handed some screenshots to our warning threads---but I'm going to be honest.

Bolshe was also crazy. I could go in to all the things he did wrong from memory, because that's a name that -really- sticks in my head to this day when it comes to some of the weirder and more awful things that have happened on CoTH.

If you guys didn't know, Archiac WoW was basically Rebel/Ashara/Imperium's leniency and flexibility with CotH's lore strictness without favoritism or a staff that cared more about its own goals than the players-- we basically were there to serve the players and make their ideas come to light, as long as they were reasonable and lore-correct. Bolshe and Osh joined OotR to us while we had, oh, peaking 60-70 regulars. . .And long story short, Bolshe betrayed Osh and eventually the rest of the server, sucking up a good part of our playerbase into OotR while all the rest of the players fled back to either CotH or Imperium.

So yes, like Twilight once said, he's a weasel. . .After he basically destroyed our server, he gave me his e-mail and expected me to contact him and stay in touch. . .I pretty much discarded it immediately.

(03-22-2013, 07:59 PM)Xigo Wrote: GM decisions are largely built upon compromises, bashing heads, and discussion. Seriously, they're not as unified as you think. They just can come to a conclusion about what they want. If they can't, you don't hear about it. Sure, sometimes the decisions were easy to make. But... yeah. Yeah sometimes it's pretty hard and we unintentionally hurt eachother's feelings in there (sorry chaps), building animosity and what not. I left the GM team to get away from it for a while.

If you guys look at what I italicized, I just want to say that these decisions shouldn't be based on what 'they want', it should be based on what the players want-- and of course, if what the players want isn't OK with the Admins (aka, it's not within reason) then they'll also be the counterbalance to make sure we're not straying too far.

(03-22-2013, 07:59 PM)Xigo Wrote: People aren't promoted based on 'hue hue hue who will we add to our little club now hue hue hue'. We add people based on 'will this person be a boon to the team/server'. Have we made mistakes? Yeah, totally. I mean hell, you can look to that whole grand exit a few years back that resulted in a GM being banned. The team just tries to do what's good for the server, and I do think things have significantly improved over time.

I think the team tries to do what it thinks is good for the server too. . .But I also think the community should be able to help them understand what actually is good for the server by being a part of the process.

(03-22-2013, 08:11 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: Not to go off topic and reply to just this bit - actually I'm doing exactly that - but why? If you don't support the consensus, why pretend to? I don't understand at all why it's not acceptable to say "Kretol/Grakor/The rest of the staff have decided X, and I think X is a bad idea and here is why." It gives community relations a bothersome, Orwellian vibe, if you will; I don't mean to imply actual conspiracy, of course. I've had GMs speak to me in private about exactly this sort of thing. "This is being done, I don't like it, but hush, nobody can know I feel this way."

The perception of a "unified GM front," as Loxy put it, is a bad thing. It's fuel for the paranoia; just another reason for players to be afraid of the staff - and many of those who are won't publicly say so, for reasons that require no explanation.

This is pretty much the voice of reason here, but that's just what I think. It really goes to show that this problem is being identified by a lot of the veteran members-- and maybe some of the newer ones too. Step up!

(03-22-2013, 08:11 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: No matter how many threads are made ensuring us of transparency, it doesn't change that sometimes people get "disappeared." From the perspectives of most witnesses and friends, there is no preamble, and despite the allegations to the contrary I do find it difficult to believe that these players are always appropriately warned. It's true that we're generally biased in favor of our friends, but it stretches disbelief that every single one of the stories about the staff not communicating or a staff member abusing their authority or acting on personal feelings are false, particularly when there are logs to that effect.

As much as we're assured that the secrecy isn't sinister - and as an aside, I don't particularly believe it is sinister - it's not going to change the fact that in the subconscious minds of humanity at large, secrecy is sinister. It's often frightening, and even when it's not it certainly doesn't foster trust or comfort. Neither does speaking ill of one staff member to another, however politely-worded your complaint: The bias towards friends extends to the staff, as well.

How do I know that "evidence" I didn't bring up isn't being altered or deleted right now? So that when I finally get to it to make my point and I'm all alone with the big bad GM's, all of a sudden I'm libelous! Of course that would never happen. Not with my beautiful screenies.

But really, look at what HiddenGhecko is saying. It's evidence that there IS suspicion and that we do need to do something about it. GM's shouldn't argue with his claims they should just try to figure out a way to make it so that he can't have those suspicions. And I think, now ya'll lets be real, we should do that by asking the community for a solution; see what we want and when we realize it's not enough or maybe too much we can make adjustments. Lets not talk about what we will do yet, though; lets get on the same page here.

(03-22-2013, 08:11 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: That CotH's system of due process, if you will, has rules that can be bent or ignored if deemed appropriate, as well as the proverbial elephant in the room that is noticing that people who don't get on well with the staff tend to end up banned doesn't help in the least. Is this conspiracy? It's unlikely.

Like I said, take this very seriously whether or not it's true. What hidden is saying isn't to harm the GM's it's to point out that this is what he's observed. Now lets just hope he doesn't disappear too!

(03-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Anski Wrote: I would like to voice the short of my opinion. I had a massive post written out, but realized I was pretty much just hot air, which happens for some reason when I listen to classical music.

That doesn't make any sense.
*Slowly turns off his Gershwin.*

(03-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Anski Wrote: I've been around for a while, too. I was on staff very quickly after I joined, and continuing to be (if I recall correctly) the longest standing continuous GM apart from the admins. I have seen not only how COTH breathes and reacts, but how the blood flows and the mind works as a whole, for a long time, and I have to say that I will never support an elective-democratic representative system. I believe that it will be an ultimate evil as opposed to a necessary detriment that the current aristocracy the staff is chosen by. I stand by the belief that it will eventually lead to a spiraling corruption that I frankly do not want to be a part of if it were to occur. I have a deep reason for such, and those that wish to understand greater may contact me on Skype via my username: "krentkrentkrentswaaag" without quotations.

Democracy is a pretty much no for a lot of good reasons, so I think we've got your back on that.

Also, you haven't responded to my skype; is that your real skype username in the quotation box above?

(03-22-2013, 08:34 PM)Anski Wrote: Also, change for the sake of change does not lead anyone anywhere. If you're truly unhappy with something, please vocalize it instead of letting it spread and get worse.

When I saw some terrible injustice, I was thrown into a fit of rage and then harshly criticized exactly what the GM's did wrong and why it was wrong, and then I put it all together and told myself "it's not passive aggressive" and basically wanted to keep it in private until next month, revising it with my friends and clearing up points and clauses and that's basically the 1300 doctrine thingy. But this works too!

But really Anski, your insight is invaluable. Just wanted you to know, bro.

(03-22-2013, 08:41 PM)Rensin Wrote: I know personally, I find some of the crap I did embarrassing, and wouldn't want others to know about it.  Like, if there was this transparency with the crap people get banned for, or who was subbing the screenshots of the instances that led to others bans---who exactly would that help?  Are people calling to see exactly -everything- everyone else does, or... what's the overall goal here?

You were a pretty cool GM, Rensin. Like, you were the rogue cop. A. . .Chaotic Good cop. A cop that at first I didn't think was too fond of me but in the end was a cool cat and a bro, bro. I still remember you sharing pictures of your daughter way back then when she was just born, man. I miss Quanza.

I think the goal is to make the players a part of the decision making process when it comes down to, well, decisions. That's actually beyond transparency because the GM's are actively working with the community to come up with a solution. 

(03-22-2013, 08:41 PM)Rensin Wrote: Calling it Orwellian is funny to me.  Why?  Because this is a gaming server where the moderators ban people that are disruptive, but try to preserve their privacy as well as everyone involved.  We could end up airing out spats between people that just... puts this stuff out there.

Some players have petty fights with eachother.  That'd exacerbate this stuff.  They don't shame people here, and that's a bad thing?  I really, really disagree.

Really helps put things into perspective, ya'll.

(03-22-2013, 08:53 PM)Krent Wrote: ........I don't really have anything to add on-topic like. I see this as another pointless COTHtroversy™ that everyone is getting bent out of shape over for no reason. Everyone is wrong and everyone is right for different reasons and there have been times where mistakes have been made and nothing is perfect and everything is silly silly silly all the time because everyone has to be in everyone else's business and can never let anything go no matter how many years pass and its kinda dizzying especially when you're sleep deprived and procrastinating on actual work.

Plus, this is a private server. Like, someone's property, and stuff. If Kretol decided to take the machine that hosts COTH, drive it to a 7-11, fill it up with a cherry big-gulp, drive the slurpee-filled COTH machine out to a hotel room, plug it in and turn it on to melt the slurpee, and then tie a bungee cord to it, duct-tape a few fire crackers to it, and then throw it out the window at full voltage so that the firecrackers ignite and then throw the computer the window while it dangles off the bungee cord outside everywhere and it explodes in a giant mess of cherry slurpee goodness while a sign flashes HAPPY SPRING ASTROLOGICAL NEAR YEARS blares in the background....well.

That's his choice, y'know? There really ain't nothing stopping COTH from just like, blinking outta existence. Could all go bloof, tomorrows. And there isn't anything anyone could do about it. 'Cept Kret, of course.



Yep.

Krent, you make me so angry and frustrated and mad and your irrelevant pollywagging nickernackers makes me want to explode, you make me so mad that I'm going to have to release the--

Spoiler:
[Image: otlm5z.jpg]

(03-22-2013, 07:48 PM)Reigen Wrote: In the meantime, I'm going to take advantage of this and do some shameless advertisement:

VOTE 4 KRENT ENFORCER GM 2013 YOLO

But we're not arguing, we're discussing. Shit is getting done. Swag and swerve combined.

You don't even know!

THIS ISN'T A GAME, KRENT!! THIS IS MY POLITICAL LEGISLATIVE PLAYGROUND FOR PRACTICING NATURAL RIGHTS!! HOW DARE U

And now. . .I sleep.

EDIT: Check the Krent spoiler again
[Image: Calvin_and_Hobbes_hug_by_Humongous_E.png]
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#69
Sons. I have sons. Heh.


But thanks for the compliment, all the same.
[Image: desc_head_freemasons.jpg]

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#70
(03-21-2013, 06:09 AM)Nikodemoss grandpappy Wrote: "Smart people keep their mouths shut."

Just wanted to get in on the quote spamming trend that seems to be popping up.
[Image: stonetalon-mountains.jpg?w=760]
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#71
Once more, Krent reveals all.
Quote:[8:53AM] Cassius: Xigo is the best guy ever. he doesn't afraid of anything.
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#72
(03-22-2013, 09:34 PM)Sourpuddle Wrote:
(03-22-2013, 08:11 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: Not to go off topic and reply to just this bit - actually I'm doing exactly that - but why? If you don't support the consensus, why pretend to? I don't understand at all why it's not acceptable to say "Kretol/Grakor/The rest of the staff have decided X, and I think X is a bad idea and here is why." It gives community relations a bothersome, Orwellian vibe, if you will; I don't mean to imply actual conspiracy, of course. I've had GMs speak to me in private about exactly this sort of thing. "This is being done, I don't like it, but hush, nobody can know I feel this way."

The perception of a "unified GM front," as Loxy put it, is a bad thing. It's fuel for the paranoia; just another reason for players to be afraid of the staff - and many of those who are won't publicly say so, for reasons that require no explanation.

This is pretty much the voice of reason here, but that's just what I think. It really goes to show that this problem is being identified by a lot of the veteran members-- and maybe some of the newer ones too. Step up!

(03-22-2013, 08:11 PM)hiddengecko Wrote: No matter how many threads are made ensuring us of transparency, it doesn't change that sometimes people get "disappeared." From the perspectives of most witnesses and friends, there is no preamble, and despite the allegations to the contrary I do find it difficult to believe that these players are always appropriately warned. It's true that we're generally biased in favor of our friends, but it stretches disbelief that every single one of the stories about the staff not communicating or a staff member abusing their authority or acting on personal feelings are false, particularly when there are logs to that effect.

As much as we're assured that the secrecy isn't sinister - and as an aside, I don't particularly believe it is sinister - it's not going to change the fact that in the subconscious minds of humanity at large, secrecy is sinister. It's often frightening, and even when it's not it certainly doesn't foster trust or comfort. Neither does speaking ill of one staff member to another, however politely-worded your complaint: The bias towards friends extends to the staff, as well.

How do I know that "evidence" I didn't bring up isn't being altered or deleted right now? So that when I finally get to it to make my point and I'm all alone with the big bad GM's, all of a sudden I'm libelous! Of course that would never happen. Not with my beautiful screenies.

But really, look at what HiddenGhecko is saying. It's evidence that there IS suspicion and that we do need to do something about it. GM's shouldn't argue with his claims they should just try to figure out a way to make it so that he can't have those suspicions. And I think, now ya'll lets be real, we should do that by asking the community for a solution; see what we want and when we realize it's not enough or maybe too much we can make adjustments. Lets not talk about what we will do yet, though; lets get on the same page here.

So, I'm going to talk about this stuff here, both Hidden and Sour's stuff. Kind of at the same time. Try to bear with me. Everything else I might comment on later, but it's late and I'd rather just focus on this right now.

The united front thing is kind of confusing. Never at any point have either Kretol or myself told GMs that they are disallowed to voice a dissenting opinion on server policy, even in public. They are, of course, required to enforce policies that they might not agree with, as that is part of their job description, but I hold no illusions that every GM is going to like every decision that is made. If the GMs are deciding that they don't want that dissent to be made public, then that is their personal decision borne either out of a misunderstanding, or a desire to avoid drama.

Also, the facets of human nature and trends in how humans think makes this idea, that the majority of banned players think their ban is unjust, not at all unusual. Everyone will have a tendency to believe themselves right, and in a major decision like a ban it's hardly surprising that the vast majority will think that they did nothing to deserve it. That's just human nature. If there is really a belief that we're doctoring logs or coming up with excuses to ban people...well, that is just the definition of a conspiracy theory, isn't it? Let's face it, eliminating all suspicion is a pipe dream. It simply cannot happen, because there will always be people that will simply proclaim that the GMs are lying. Every single last GM on staff is a part of some large conspiracy, apparently.

But let's say that we want to do something and reduce suspicion here. What would you suggest? Eliminating secrecy is also simply not an option. It is the equivalent of communism or the Utopian ideal, something that is a wonderful dream in theory but falls apart in practical application due to naive assumptions of human behavior.

Let's take warning threads as an example. There was a movement to reduce secrecy by allowing everyone to see the warning thread board, without a whit of thought as to the ramifications of such an action. There is the obvious answer, of course, of someone seeing the name of someone filing a report or a log and that person being attacked for reporting someone. But let's even ignore that and go straight into ban reasons. Do people expect us to provide a detailed list of the reasons a person was banned and why? Why would we do that? I would think that banning the person is punishment enough, is it really necessary to shame the person as well on top of that? Let me be clear: in the vast majority of cases, I have no personal vendetta against anyone who has been banned. I have no desire to make that person feel worse. And, if you're a friend of someone who has been banned and you have no problems getting along with that person? Good for you! I mean that with all of the sincerity I can muster. It is for that reason that I'm not going to do the action that essentially says "Look at how terrible your friend is! Look at all the awful things he said!" I would rather bear the community's mistrust through secrecy than betray that community through such an act. If others believe that I am harming them through my desire to protect them, both the current players and the banned players, then that is a cross I will bear.

So, let me be frank. You have these problems, but what are the solutions? What solutions can be found that does not have the potential to make problems worse?
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#73
Might I suggest institutionalising a system that allows one to read one's own warning thread? Though I might be misinformed, I have the picture that there is a separate thread for each player - how about allowing the subject of each thread to read it on request? I'm unsure of the technical requirements, but even a simple copy n' paste over a PM or IM would suffice, I imagine.

I'm a firm believer in improvement by self-evaluation, or, as Delta excellently put it:

Delta Wrote:Without self-deprecating, realising your own shortcomings is the only way to start working to improve yourself.
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#74
Again, that wouldn't protect people that submit screenshots of other people breaking rules.
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#75
...I imagine the GM responsible for delivering the information would be able to scrub out the names, Rensin.
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