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The Nature of Garrosh Hellscream
Continued from this thread right here.

I'm going to write a basic profile real quick, not as descriptive as I could, because I don't know the character well enough to completely write out his entire history.

Player: Blizzard

Character Full Name: Garrosh Hellscream

Character In-Game Name: Garrosh Hellscream

Nickname(s): Warchief, Warlord

Association(s): The Mag'har (ties weaken as time goes by), the Horde

Race: Orc (brown skin)

Class: Warrior


Sex: Male

Hair: Bald

Eyes: Yellow



Usual Garments/Armor: His signature armor, never removed

Alignment: Chaotic Evil, leans toward Neutral Evil


Garrosh used to be quiet, shy, and very self-pitying, due to the fact that his father's deed (drinking the blood) hung, he felt, over his head. After a series of circumstances involving Greatmother Geyah, Thrall, and a group of adventurers, he came to realize that his father also saved orc-kind, even after damning them. At this point, he became willing, eager to prove himself worthy of inheriting his father's legacy, and even to improve upon it. After yet more time, after following Thrall to a new world, he became impatient that he wasn't being given the chance, even challenging Thrall to a duel because of it. That chance didn't come 'til after the Lich King attacked Orgrimmar (interrupting the duel, by chance). Thrall was given his first command in Northrend, and came to enjoy it thoroughly, and being good at it didn't help matters.

Thus the seeds of a military leader were born.

After this, his persona takes a steady plateau, even if his actions continue to increase in potency: Garrosh is willing to do whatever is necessary to get the job done. The ends will always justify the means. His opinion on the matter at hand might change day-to-day, not because his opinion actually changes, but so he can justify reaching his goal faster (whether to himself or to others doesn't seem to matter; might be both).

His first command at Northrend was over orcs, trolls, tauren, and only handful of blood elves, and this has stayed in his head as being the Horde ever since. Due to several events throughout his life, he is becoming a purist, in that only these races truely make up the Horde.

(THE FOLLOWING IS NOT MY WORK!!!! It is a two-part article by Anne Stickney, a write for a joystiq.com series called Know Your Lore (which can be flawed on occasion, but hey, so can Wowwiki))

Part 1

Garrosh's life has been anything but easy. First introduced in The Burning Crusade expansion, Garrosh was apparently -- let's face it -- a petulant crybaby who couldn't even muster the interest to lead the people of Garadar when the impending death of Greatmother Geyah approached. It was up to us as players to convince young Hellscream that life would be all right without the Greatmother, but he simply refused to listen. It wasn't until Thrall visited Nagrand that Hellscream finally stepped up, in a much larger capacity than anyone imagined.

But where did young Garrosh come from? What was his life before we encountered the sulky, unwilling leader of the uncorrupted orcs of Nagrand? What caused him to be so fearful of stepping up to lead? And more importantly, why exactly is he fit to lead the Horde, a much larger group of individuals than that tiny village, when he couldn't be bothered to step up in Garadar?

First, let's take a look at the settlement of Garadar and the Mag'har. Some time before the demonic corruption of the orcs, a virulent sickness known as the red pox broke out among the different orc clans. The red pox was a horrible disease that covered its victims with red pustules and caused those infected to cough up both blood and vile -- and it was spreading like a plague among the orcs of Draenor. An orc woman named Geyah, wife of the deceased chieftain of the Frostwolf clan, established a quarantine area -- a settlement for those sick with the red pox, where they could be treated and hopefully cured. She named the settlement after her husband, Garad; this was Garadar.

There were no Mag'har at this time, simply those that were incredibly ill and those that took care of them. The settlement included children of several chieftains who had come down with the pox, including a young boy named Garrosh Hellscream. Garrosh was sent to Garadar after coming down with the red pox, and it was in Garadar that he was raised, with no word regarding his father or his father's fate.

Garadar was given a wide berth by the rest of the Horde, who had no wish to contract the disease that its residents carried. And so, when the time came that the collected chieftains -- minus Durotan of the Frostwolf Clan -- drank the blood of Mannoroth and entered into a blood pact that would bind them to the pit lord and the Burning Legion, Garadar wasn't included. Why would it be, remote, far away, and riddled with sickness? The demonic corruption quickly spread to the rest of the Horde, but Garadar remained unaffected by the change.

Geyah, however, noted the change in the rest of orc society and viewed it with disgust. Years passed, and the small village went largely unnoticed until Kargath Bladefist traveled to it, in an attempt to recruit the able bodied for the war with the Alliance that had spilled through the Dark Portal after the Second War. Ner'zhul sought to open portals to other worlds, but he needed more soldiers to defend the Black Temple from the Alliance so that he could perform the rituals.

Kargath found no warriors. Instead, he found a village of orcs too sick to do more than fend for themselves, tended to by Geyah and a few others. Nagrand was curiously absent of the corruption that had ravaged the rest of the world -- the grass was still green, the mountains still teeming of life, and the orcs of Garadar were unchanged as well. Their skin remained brown, unaffected by the demonic taint that riddled Kargath and his troops and drove them to bloodlust. And Geyah informed him that there were no orcs capable of fighting in the tiny village -- nor would they want to.

She looked smug. "It is mag'har-uncorrupted. And so are its people. They may be sick with the red pox, even dying from it. But at least their pocked skin is brown, and they have not been fouled by the Horde's dark magics."

Kargath was infuriated, but his fury soon changed to horror when Garrosh Hellscream approached the two. Hellscream sought word of his father, who he'd heard nothing from since he was delivered to Garadar years before. Garrosh had no idea if his father even lived. But Garrosh's sickness repulsed Kargath, who quickly realized that there was nobody in the village capable of raising an axe and lending a hand.

Kargath had recoiled when Garrosh started spitting up blood, and he continued to back away now. "No. They are no warriors." Disgust and despair added venom to his words. "They are not even orcs anymore -- they are useless." He glared at Geyah, at Garrosh, and at the other villagers behind them.

"You pathetic weaklings!" he snarled, raising his voice as best he could. "Do the Horde a favor and die here! If you can't help defend your people, you have no right to live!"

Garrosh heard all of this, and as he begged Geyah for news of his father, she had none to give him -- none that she was willing to give him. Not yet. But years later, Garrosh learned of his father's fate, that the mighty Grom Hellscream was the first to drink the demon's blood, that he led the way for the rest of orc society, paved a path of damnation for them all. Nagrand and the rest of Draenor shattered, but the tiny outpost remained free of demonic taint, its people taking up the orcish word for uncorrupted -- Mag'har -- as a reminder of the fate they escaped.

Step back for a moment and consider this -- Garrosh Hellscream was dropped off at this village, incredibly sick, at a very young age. He spent his youth riddled with the red pox and desperately hoping he'd hear news from his father -- but his father never contacted him. Years later, his father's fate came to light: His father led the way down a path of corruption that the rest of the Horde eagerly followed. Garrosh continued to be raised by orcs who were incredibly proud of the fact that they'd never fallen to corruption, orcs who were utterly disgusted by the actions of the rest of the Horde -- the actions for which Grom Hellscream served as catalyst.

Is it any wonder, then, that Garrosh Hellscream lived his life in shame? He was surrounded by those who openly reviled the actions his father had taken, and then later expected to lead those people. How could Garrosh expect to lead the uncorrupted, the Mag'har, to greatness, when his father had done the exact opposite? Garrosh was worried that he would be an unfit leader, that he would follow the same path his father followed. He wasn't thinking about Grom's actions in Azeroth, the slaughter of Cenarius, any of that -- he was thinking of that moment when Grom, given the choice to enter into demonic servitude, gladly said, "I will." What kind of legacy is that for a son to live up to?

Not only was he frightened of the potential disastrous results of his leadership -- those that he led were Mag'har. Uncorrupted. They took pride in being what his father was not. How could he step up to lead and expect any of them to follow, given his family's past, his father's past? This is the Garrosh that players meet upon coming to Outland: defeated, utterly broken in regards to his father's fate, convinced that he will somehow inadvertently lead them down the same path as his father. Greatmother Geyah is dying; he will be expected to lead when she passes away. But as far as Garrosh is concerned, when Geyah dies, so do the Mag'har.

And so players are asked by Greatmother Geyah to help the Mag'har and show Garrosh that Garadar, Nagrand, and the Mag'har people will be able to continue on just fine without her. She essentially asks players to cheer him up -- but each new action performed by players does nothing more than drive him further and further into depression. And why shouldn't it? If he, Garrosh Hellscream, is incapable of leading the Mag'har people, yet some small upstart from another planet shows up and is able to work miracles -- well then, there is his proof that he's not competent to lead, isn't it?

You are an honorable <race>, <name>. You have done much for the Mag'har. No one could ever deny your service to my people. Alas, the time of the Mag'har is at an end. You have shown me, more than anything, that I am unfit to lead these people. My cursed blood runs too deep. I will not... I cannot become the second Hellscream to damn the orcs.

Please, <name>, return to the Greatmother and tell her what I have told you. I am too ashamed to see her... to look into her eyes.

Enter salvation in the form of one green-skinned orc who not only led his people from imprisonment, but also had a close personal relationship with Garrosh's father. Thrall came to Nagrand, and after a short conversation with Greatmother Geyah, he learned of Garrosh's depression, of his broken spirit. And Thrall showed Garrosh exactly what his father's last actions were: the actions of a hero. Though no longer accessible in game, Thrall's presence sets off a cutscene in which the events of Warcraft 3 play out -- Grom and Thrall, facing off against Mannoroth, Grom's death ... and Mannoroth's death.

Grom may have been the first to drink, but he killed Mannoroth and freed the orcs from their demonic servitude. Garrosh finally woke up and realized that his bloodline wasn't cursed. His father may have led the orcs down a broken path, but he freed them from that path and paid the price of his life in return for it. Garrosh's father was not despised on Azeroth; he was a hero. And Garrosh went from a depressed young orc, thinking his bloodline was cursed to destruction, to suddenly having to live up to a hero's reputation.

But Thrall didn't leave Garrosh to lead the Mag'har. Instead, he brought Hellscream to Azeroth -- to show him the world his father liberated and perhaps to take the younger Hellscream under his wing, to guide him in the ways of leadership. After all, Grom was like a brother to Thrall. And after all that Grom had done to help Thrall after he escaped Durnholde Keep, it was only right that Thrall do the same for Grom's son.

The problem, of course, was Thrall himself. Grom let Thrall prove himself over the course of their first meeting, but Garrosh had no way of knowing that the Warchief of Azeroth's Horde was so ... different in thinking than Draenor's orcs. And perhaps Thrall thought he was doing young Hellscream a favor by bringing him to Azeroth -- but what Thrall did was essentially take a wild wolf from the forests into the suburbs and expect it to act just like any domesticated animal.

It was an assumption that would cost the Warchief.

Part 2

Garrosh was at this point completely ready and eager to lead his people and show that he could be the hero his father was. Instead of being ashamed of his bloodline, he was suddenly overwhelmed with how amazing that bloodline was -- and left with the enormous task of trying to live up to it. After spending so many years in sorrow, of course he immediately went overboard. It was a matter of pride -- pride that he never experienced until Thrall showed him there was pride to be had. In a way, the Warchief was directly responsible for every action Garrosh took after he brought young Hellscream to Azeroth.

But Garrosh wasn't allowed to lead. Instead, he was placed in a role as Thrall's advisor and expected to be content with that. After years of Geyah trying to convince him he could lead, after years of the Mag'har trying to show him the same, after all the quests that players did in Nagrand to show Garrosh that his people weren't doomed to their fate, after Thrall showing him that his bloodline didn't stand in his way, that he could be a leader -- he simply wasn't allowed to step up. The sheer amount of frustration that Garrosh felt at being denied that which everyone had been preparing him for infuriated Hellscream.

Not only that, but Garrosh was raised with the ideals and values of a Draenor orc. He didn't experience the effects of the blood pact, he didn't experience the Second War, he didn't experience the internment camps, and he wasn't there when Thrall freed the orcs from those camps. So he had a completely different way of thinking than Warchief Thrall. Thrall brought him to Azeroth and expected Garrosh to simply fall into line as any Azerothian orc would -- a mistake that would cost him.

Because Garrosh yearned to lead. It was in his blood. Yet as an advisor, Garrosh was expected to sit and offer Thrall advice on political situations he had no way to grasp. Thrall took Garrosh to a peace summit in Theramore, and that's where it started to go downhill. First of all, a peace summit with an enemy was a concept so completely foreign to Garrosh that he couldn't comprehend why any orc in his right mind would seek it. Second and more importantly, it introduced him to another hot-headed leader who was quicker to condemn his enemies than try to make peace with them -- Varian Wrynn.

[Image: garroshvarian-1291352632.jpg]

In a way, Varian and Garrosh were incredibly alike. Both were prone to thinking with their fists rather than their brains, both were incredibly quick to anger, both experienced areas of their lives during which they spent a tremendous amount of time deeply depressed for different reasons. And both came out of that depression with a vehement will to lead and destroy those who stood in their way.

It's no wonder the two of them clashed at that peace summit. When Garona showed up to try and assassinate Wrynn, both Wrynn and Garrosh immediately stepped up to take care of the situation, each growing agitated with the other for trying to do so.

Meanwhile, Thrall stood in the middle of it all and tried to calm Garrosh down and explain to him what they were really there for -- that they were seeking peace with the human race. Not only did Thrall get in the way of an orc who was desperate to lead, but his reasons for doing so made absolutely no sense to Garrosh. Why would a leader of a mighty orc nation try and make peace with his enemies? This was not the way of the orc -- not the way of someone like Hellscream, someone like the orcs of Draenor would accomplish anything. And yet the supposed Warchief continued to approach everything with extreme amounts of caution.

After returning to Orgrimmar due to reports of Scourge invasions, Garrosh had finally had it. He didn't just explode -- he detonated. Thrall wanted to coordinate with their enemy, the Alliance, to figure out what to do about the events in Northrend; Garrosh wanted to send troops north immediately. Not only did Thrall disagree with the tactics of his new advisor, he thought that the Scourge attacks might actually be trying to bait the Horde into traveling to Northrend and straight into a trap. Then he pointedly asked Garrosh not to make the same mistakes as Grom, provoking the younger Hellscream into a duel.

Young Garrosh Hellscream, devoid of pride or the will to lead, had suddenly had his life returned to him -- and promptly found himself chained down and not allowed to lead. He was appointed as advisor, but the Warchief was unwilling to listen to any of his advice. Garrosh didn't understand the reasons behind Thrall's decisions, but he wasn't about to stand there and let his father be insulted -- especially not by the Warchief who'd shown him how heroic his father really was. Thrall and Garrosh fought, but a Herald of the Lich King and an attack on Orgrimmar interrupted the outcome of the duel.

This was probably a good thing, given how enraged Garrosh had become. After the attack was over, Thrall agreed to send forces to Northrend and put Garrosh in charge. He also sent along Varok Saurfang to keep an eye on Hellscream and hopefully put an end to his rage.

The campaign in Northrend was brutal. Countless Horde and Alliance died to the sheer might of the Scourge, and Garrosh led the Horde forces valiantly north to Icecrown. This did not stop him from clashing with Varian Wrynn and his Alliance forces whenever the opportunity arose.

Garrosh Hellscream finally got to do what he was destined to do: lead. And so he did -- successfully, at that. Though the Horde lost a great deal of warriors, the final outcome resulted in the Lich King's defeat and Hellscream's triumphant return to Orgrimmar. During his time in Northrend, Hellscream was given almost free rein to show the Horde forces his idea of leadership: honor and glory to the Horde, death to anyone who dared oppose them, be it Scourge or Alliance. Saurfang quietly tried to teach Hellscream what Thrall was unable to get into Garrosh's thick head: tactics, strategy, honor.

And when Garrosh returned to Orgrimmar, he returned a hero in the eyes of the Horde. Garrosh was a leader, born and bred, and the majority of the Horde followed him willingly into battle. As Thrall contemplated his own qualities and capabilities as leader and tried to understand the strange uprising of the elements, he realized he would have to step down and let someone take his place for a time. In a move that surprised his advisors, Thrall chose Garrosh Hellscream to take his place.

But Hellscream didn't take the post easily. Leading the Horde into war, where the enemy was defined and the actions to be taken were as clear as day, was one thing. Leading the Horde in day-to-day activities and taking the responsibilities of a true leader were another. Suddenly, those old feelings from Nagrand came back to Garrosh -- the feelings of helplessness and ineptitude. He was a Hellscream, a fighter -- not a diplomat, not an advisor. Would he lead the Horde to victory, or would he fall into the same mistakes his father made?

"I understand battle, yes," Garrosh said. "Tactics, how to rally troops -- these things I know. Let me serve that way. Find me a foe to face and defeat, and you will see how proudly I will continue to serve the Horde. But I know nothing of politics, of ... of ruling. I would rather have a sword in my fist than a scroll!"

In those first few weeks as leader, Garrosh made plenty of mistakes. He was trying to lead the Horde in the same way that he'd led the Northrend troops, through strong words and sharp rebukes designed to bring soldiers into line, rather than the inspirational words of a leader. His first mistake was mouthing off to Vol'jin during the meeting discussing the elemental unrest -- a foolish move that made him a target for the Darkspear chieftain. Later, the two exchanged words that were even more heated:

Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: Don't talk back to me, troll. You know who was left in charge here. Haven't you stopped to ask yourself why Thrall chose me instead of you?
Vol'jin's image appears.
Vision of Vol'jin says: Dere be no question why, Garrosh. He gave ya tha title because ya be Grom's Son and because tha people be wantin' a war hero.
Vision of Vol'jin says: To which I tink ya be even more like ya father den he thought, even without ya havin' da demon blood.
Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: You are lucky I don't gut you right here, whelp. You are foolish to think that you can speak to your Warchief in such ways.
Vision of Vol'jin says: Ya be no Warchief of mine. Ya've not earned my respect and I'll not be seein' tha Horde destroyed by ya foolish thirst for war.
Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: And what exactly do you think that you'll do about it? Your threats are hollow. Go slink away with the rest of your kind in the slums. I will endure your filth in my throne room no longer.
Vision of Vol'jin says: I know exactly what I'll be doin' about it, son of Hellscream. I'll be watchin' as ya people slowly become aware of ya ineptitude. I'll laugh as dey grow ta despise ya as I do.
Vision of Vol'jin says: And when tha time comes dat ya failure is complete and ya "power" is meaningless, I will be dere to end ya rule, swiftly and silently.
Vision of Vol'jin says: Ya will spend ya reign glancin' over ya shoulda and fearin' tha shadows, for when tha time comes and ya blood be slowly drainin' out, ya will know exactly who fired da arrow dat pierced ya heart.
Vision of Garrosh Hellscream says: You have sealed your fate, troll.
Vision of Garrosh Hellscream spits at Vol'jin's feet.
Vision of Vol'jin says: And you yours, "Warchief."

Driving away one of the staunchest supporters of the Horde? Terrible idea, Garrosh.

In addition, there was the matter of Cairne Bloodhoof, who didn't trust Hellscream at all -- and Magatha Grimtotem, another tauren who was incredibly keen on making friends with Garrosh and bringing her people, the Grimtotem tribe, into the Horde as allies. Garrosh trusted her intentions as good -- a fatal mistake. When Cairne Bloodhoof, fed up with Garrosh's actions and unwilling to see the Horde led into needless bloodshed, challenged Hellscream to a duel to the death, Magatha poisoned Garrosh's weapon. The end result was the death of Cairne Bloodhoof.

Garrosh wasn't upset by Cairne's death. Before you demand his head on a pike, an explanation: Garrosh and Cairne both knew, going into that duel, that one of them was going to die. Both were absolutely prepared for whatever outcome might have occurred, had Magatha not interfered.

What upset Garrosh was that Magatha's interference robbed him of what was meant to be an honorable battle. He made that very clear to Magatha in a note sent to her after she requested his aid in her coup of Thunder Bluff:

Unto Elder Crone Magatha of the Grimtotem,
Acting Warchief of the Horde, Garrosh Hellscream,
Sends his most sincere wishes for a slow and painful death.
It has come to my attention that you have deprived me of a rightful kill. Cairne Bloodhoof was a hero to the Horde and an honorable member of a usually honorable race. It is with disgust and anger that I discover you have caused me to bring about his death through accidental treachery.
Such tactics may work well for your renegade, honorless tribe and Alliance scum, but I despise them. It was my wish to fight Cairne fairly, and win or lose by my own skill or lack of it. Now I shall never know, and the cry of traitor will dog my steps until such time as I can sport your head on a pike and point to you as the real traitor.
So ... no. I will not be sending any truehearted orcs to fight alongside your treacherous, belly-crawling tribe. Your victory or your defeat is in the hands of your Earth Mother now. Either way, I look forward to hearing of your demise.
You are on your own, Magatha, as friendless and disliked as you have ever been. Perhaps more. Enjoy your loneliness.

And after all was said and done, Garrosh apologized to Cairne's son for his place in the murder of Chieftain Bloodhoof. He set about trying to make things right. He built a new Orgrimmar, one considerably less flammable than the previous incarnation. He set aside areas for the tauren, the new goblin allies and yes, even the trolls -- perhaps as a silent apology to Vol'jin. Whether or not Vol'jin will accept that apology has yet to be decided, but Garrosh made an effort. He watches the Forsaken like a hawk, wary of any future acts of betrayal. And when those under his leadership act dishonorably, his punishment is swift.

What Garrosh got out of Northrend wasn't just the leadership role that he craved. He also listened, albeit stubbornly, to what Varok Saurfang had to say, which is perhaps why Thrall sent Saurfang along on the journey -- he knew Garrosh had never been in a war, nor did Hellscream have any experience on the fields of battle. But the Warchief knew that Saurfang had and that Saurfang would be able to guide Garrosh in a way that wasn't outwardly apparent. He knew that Saurfang, war hero and veteran of the Horde, had plenty to teach young Hellscream, whether Garrosh was immediately willing to listen or not.

As for Saurfang, he had his own struggles with Garrosh in Northrend, but he exhibited the kind of patient tolerance that Garrosh needed. Rather than beat Hellscream over the head and demand that he change his ways, he led instead by example. It took a great deal of time, but in Cataclysm, Garrosh appears to have learned at least a little from Saurfang.

I spent a very long time in Northrend, Krom'gar. I learned much about the Horde at that time. While there, a wise old war hero told me something that I would carry with me forever ... "Honor," Krom'gar. "No matter how dire the battle... Never forsake it."

The one thing that Garrosh lacked in his life was a father figure, someone to guide him through his life and show him how to make the tough decisions that a leader needs to make. It's an odd dilemma, given that Garrosh spent most of his childhood obsessed with his bloodline and his absent father. Perhaps in Northrend, Saurfang became a little like a father figure to Garrosh -- though Hellscream would never, ever admit it. But the lessons Varok taught Hellscream will be carried with him always.

Garrosh Hellscream still has much to learn, but the results of his first few actions as Warchief -- the duel with Cairne, the bickering with Vol'jin -- taught him that allies should not be taken for granted. He learned that leadership isn't just about rallying the troops into a blood frenzy; it's about having a gentle hand with your allies and treating them honorably, the way a Warchief expects to be treated.

In Cataclysm, we start to see a Garrosh who is slowly becoming a more tempered being -- a Warchief capable of making the difficult political decisions that need to be made, a Warchief who can lead the Horde to victory. Thrall said it best to Vol'jin, when the troll leader told the former Warchief that he was worried about Garrosh's motives:

I chose Garrosh because he has the strength to lead our people through these trying times. For all my supposed wisdom, there have been moments that I've barely been able to hold the Horde together. The Wrath Gate and Undercity displayed that clearly.

The Horde cries for a hero of old. An orc of true blood that will bow to no human and bear no betrayal. A warrior that will make our people proud again. Garrosh can be that hero. I did not make this decision lightly, Vol'jin.

I know our alliances will suffer for it. I know the Horde will be irreversibly changed. But I made this choice with confidence that Garrosh is exactly what the Horde needs. I'm trusting you and the other leaders to not let this divide our people. You are stronger than that.

Garrosh Hellscream spent the majority of his life with the shadow of his father's failure looming over his head like a death sentence. In Wrath, he desperately tried to live up to the legacy of a father who was not a failure at all, but instead a hero to the orcs of Azeroth.

In Cataclysm, perhaps Garrosh will finally learn that it isn't his father's legacy he has to worry about, but his own. He must consider whether he will be thought of as an honorable leader, how to best lead the Horde, and what he will leave behind after he steps down -- whether it be from Thrall's return, or his own demise.

Now, obviously, that's not a complete history, as both pieces were written in late 2010, but this technically a good thing for the profile, since this is where he'd be as far as CotH timeline, roughly speaking.

From what I see of this, and you are free to disagree, is that Garrosh is young. He's wiling to do whatever it takes to win, to prove himself, to make his mark on history. (And I do mean whatever it takes.) He's hotheaded, brash, eager, and follows the mentality of "the ends justify the means". I wrote this out as a profile because it helped -me- to try and look at him, not as someone I'm familiar with, but objectively; as someone I'm trying to learn about. Thoughts?

[Image: ad300x100.png]
Lendri made me do it! Her signature sucked me in!

[Image: 3801bacbd658b72b4b2b54b893f5ce535d54636d...264c_1.jpg]
This post will likely be long. I don't feel bad about it anymore since I'm no longer clogging up Hawk's thread. And I want to throw everything out there so I don't need to repeat myself. So, this from the other thread...

(08-25-2013, 05:52 AM)Memnoch Wrote: He does explain, and that sentence is the basis of it! :)

What I gather from this article is that Garrosh is an Ends-Justify-the-Means kind of guy. In other words, he'll say or do whatever it takes to get the job done, and that's it. He talks about honor and all that to the one orc, but there's others watching, which he knows. The orc he's speaking to, Krom'gar? Yeah, Garrosh kills him.

That's not an explanation. If it is, then it's an incorrect one.

There's one tauren and the PC watching Garrosh when he makes that speech. That's it. The post was in flames by the time this part of the quest happened and most everyone else dead. Now, I ask because again the article does not explain this: what is the difference between Stonetalon and Theramore? Garrosh being an ends-justify-the-means guy (which he isn't...I'll get to that later) doesn't explain that, because the results are the same: innocents die for a Horde victory. And let's not say that Krom'gar's actions hurt Garrosh more than Theramore did: Garrosh could have easily just pushed the blame on Krom'gar later, there was no need for him to go bursting through a portal to punish him right away. Let's not say that it didn't help Horde interests: it killed passive night elves and undoubtedly dropped their morale, actions that Garrosh's administration has had no problems doing before, considered it beneficial, and never had to pay any consequences for it. So what, precisely, is the difference? If he was an ends-justify-the-means guy, he could have just killed the PC and tauren, and there'd have been no witnesses to bring that news back to Horde lands.

But Garrosh was never written to be that kind of character anyway. In The Shattering, he gets extremely irate when he discovers that Magatha poisoned his axe to help fell Cairne. Magatha expected that he'd be a "means to an end" kind of person. No one knew besides them, and it got Garrosh what he wanted. Yet he raged because his honor was stained. That's not the actions of a "ends justify the means" kind of guy. So if he became that, he definitely did, in fact, change.

(A lot of this issue becomes aggravated because a lot of the supposed development and good writings these characters get are stuffed in novels and not displayed in-game. It becomes even more aggravated when said novels actually make the in-game events make even less sense, as The Shattering did to Garrosh's development.)

Here's the problem: it's not that Garrosh changed that's the issue. It's not that Garrosh is a bad guy now. It's that he's been completely rewritten again and again. This is actually a problem with all of the characters, and ties to Maulbane's post in the other thread. Blizzard doesn't treat the lore figures as characters, they treat them as tools to get the particular story they want told to be told, whether or not it makes any sense from past lore. This is a problem with all of the lore figures, but Garrosh serves as the most obvious example of this. Here's the "evolution" of the Garrosh character, with each radical shift he suffered from one expansion to the next:

Burning Crusade - Depressed son of a flawed warrior, despondent because he believes that he's destined to bear the same flaws as his father. He is lethargic, without any passion, and generally worthless until shown hope by Thrall and news of his father dying as a hero.

Wrath of the Lich King - Dismissive and rude to those who helped him previously in Outland. Proves in conversations with Saurfang that he is inept in the ways of strategy, and that his peers (at least Saurfang) believe him to be too flawed and cover his weaknesses. Shows open contempt for Saurfang. Challenges Thrall because he believes that Thrall is making wrong decisions and that his own are correct. Shows no real redeemable features, but never does "evil for evil's sake."

Cataclysm - Begs Thrall not to leave him as warchief because he believes he isn't able to make good decisions. Becomes raised up as warchief due to his strategic brilliance, and is loved by the people. Shows redeemable features and shows his honorable side, actively deposing those in his Horde that resort to measures that are too extreme. Shows open admiration for Saurfang. While still angry and violent, still never does "evil for evil's sake."

Mists of Pandaria - Abandons all signs of honor and begins to do acts of evil for evil's sake. Considers nothing too extreme if it furthers his goal. Becomes extremely arrogant and believes that he's the only one capable of leading the Horde to greatness.

There is no A to B correlation between any two expansions when it comes to Garrosh's supposed development. This is not character development, this is not flowing narrative, this is a series of complete rewrites. This is a large reason of why I say that Blizzard has absolutely no idea of what they're going to do with an expansion until they've already began it. (If you want a further example, see the spoiler.)

Now, I could talk about the orcs and how they've had roughly the same arc three times now for no reason. But no, that's not the example I'll use since I've raged about that enough. I'll instead talk about my second most hated example of Blizzard completely butchering a race for me: the draenei.

So in Warcraft 3 and WoW Classic, draenei were established and depicted as Draenor natives, a shamanistic people that were unfortunate victims of the orcs during their rage. They looked like the Lost Ones but acted like the Broken. Then BC came along...

Suddenly, draenei had their entire backstory rewritten. Now they were Light-worshipers when that was counter to what was established before. Now they were related to eredar when that was never intended at the beginning. Now they weren't draenor natives which made the naming convention really, really awkward. Now there were Naaru floating around as the source of the Light for some reason. And now that made the backstory of several Horde events get full of plot holes, such as Garona's real lineage.

For what?

It wasn't to make draenei fit in with the Alliance: they ended up tossing them next to the nature-loving Nelves. It wasn't to give draenei reason to join the Alliance: they already had plenty of reason when their kind got butchered by the orcs in already-established lore at that time. It wasn't for the same reason belves got some changes to enable paladins: draenei were supposed to bring shaman to the Alliance and they could have already done that (in fact, the changes made this even more awkward, because now shamanism is just a random, tacked on thing for the draenei that has no real place in their theology.) It wasn't to make them prettier: they could have had the mutation angle without adding all of the rest of this nonsense. It wasn't to give them cool interactions with the other Light-loving races: those never happened.

However, I legitimately believe that Blizzard made these drastic retcons with the best of intentions. I'm sure that they were proud of this story of the draenei and believed that they'd do a lot more with it in the future of Warcraft. However, the result is the same: all of those retcons, all of that nonsensical backstory for no reason.

This is what I submit at further proof that Blizzard has no idea what they're doing in each expansion: the complete revamping of the draenei makes no sense unless you presume that this is the case.

Now other characters get similar treatment, but it can be a bit harder to see because their rewrites happen less frequently than Garrosh's do. Garrosh gets completely rewritten every expansion: Varian and Jaina were mostly rewritten for Mists. But regardless, that's the issue as I see it.
Have you hugged an orc today?
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