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Thoughts, on profiles, players, and the GM's.
#1
DISCLAIMER: In no way is this directed at any one person. Please, don't take offense to this, as I am posting this in the hopes that people will read it, and try to be as cohesive as possible when it comes to working with us GMs.


Now, that's out of the way, so I'll get to the meat of it. Lately, I've seen a lot of people in different status' around the server question -everything- that pops up in profiles. We encourage that people try to discuss things with us in a reasonable, rational manner, considering that we are human, and make mistakes.

However, lately, I've noticed people outright skipping over what a GM says, and saying things like "Naw, I'll talk to another GM about it", "Thanks, but I think I'll keep it like this", or, just outright saying "no". Nothing is more frustrating than this, and people have been doing it a lot.

Right now it is extremely easy to go over another GM, and talk to someone else since there are seventeen of us, and communication can be difficult on the fly.

But, in the long run, we do talk. So we know when this happens, and more than anything it makes our jobs harder, and less fun. We voulenteer to do this, so when the playerbase dismantles us like that, it can make a lot of us -dread- being here.




What I am asking, is that you guys rather than doing this junk, try to help us. Radical concept, I know, helping out the people that run stuff, but if you truly like this place, please do. We've worked hard to make this place cool, and fun, and want to do cool and fun stuff too, but it's hard when we have added pressure.

This pertains to -every- GM. Content, Forum, Enforcer, and yes, especially Trial GMs. It's hard to be a Trial GM, especially when it feels like the player base dismisses you because you don't have a fancier name.

Again, please show us respect guys. We get frustrated and hurt just as easily as anyone else.
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#2
To add on to Rensin.

We don't mean to nitpick your profiles or make it seem like we are calling you out. We really are here to help you and your fellow players out. Now saying that, I really mean it when I say this..."They made this server so strict because they were tired of lore breaking, irrational, and unreasonable characters and players." And personally speaking, I would like to keep it that way. Every time you say..."WELL THEY CAN BE DIFFERENT" "THERE IS ALWAYS ONE THAT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE CROWD" "UNIQUE POWER" or whatever else you'd like to say...When we have such a small community, it really loses it's value.

/shrug

And just to mention it, what has been happening is the exact reason I rarely do profiles. :X
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#3
What Cressy said is exactly something I was trying to convey. I'm quite blunt with what I say in profiles, and probably sound brash, or harsh, but in reality I'm trying to get things straight. I -love- to roleplay, and read. And good profiles really make me happy, and when I see one, I let people know.

However, when I see someone trying to be ultra-special by taking shortcuts, it frustrates me. I've seen it over a hundredfold times, from -really good- players. I've done it myself.

It is -nothing-, nothing personal when we do profiles. It's what we do to make this place a community that is vastly different than retail.
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#4
I've really nothing to add to this... I hardly know why I'm posting and I rather believe I'm only restating. I'm neither a GM in need of making their message known or a player in need of arguing or refuting the established powers.

I am a player who, I think, pesters the GM crowd a bit too much for my own good and I hope that does not reflect poorly on my character. I enjoy the rules and regulations of the server, otherwise I would not be here. Trust me, I enjoy an interesting character as much as the next guy however outlandish profiles are often less artistic creation and more perversion of the established story we have here at CotH.

We may not always agree with the GMs but what they are doing is not because they hate all us n00bs, but rather that they want to up keep the quality of CotH we all enjoy.
[Image: walrus_family_affair-2.gif]
"The time has come," the walrus said, "to talk of many things: Of shoes and ships - and sealing wax - of cabbages and kings" - Lewis Carrol
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#5
Furthermore, take what normal players say into consideration too. The other players are your friends, and will usually try to help you perfect your profile before a GM sees it. Our names might not be as noticeable a color, but what we say should have impact, be we a grunt, peon, GM or... perma-noob. If you take offense to a flaw in your history that another player/GM points out, do not flip out. We're only trying to help you, and keep our server good.

TL;DR Working together is the way to awesomeness!
Crunchym8: Work tomorrow at a greenhouse, followed by a D&D session. Aw fel yeaahhh I can't be more hardcore.
Crunchym8: WE'RE PLANTING THE MUMS AND THE DAYLILLIES TOMORROW AND IF WE HAVE TIME SNAPDRAGONS
Crunchym8: I AM SO MANLY.
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#6
Monolith Wrote:Furthermore, take what normal players say into consideration too. The other players are your friends, and will usually try to help you perfect your profile before a GM sees it. Our names might not be as noticeable a color, but what we say should have impact, be we a grunt, peon, GM or... perma-noob. If you take offense to a flaw in your history that another player/GM points out, do not flip out. We're only trying to help you, and keep our server good.

TL;DR Working together is the way to awesomeness!

I'm going to have to disagree with this a lil bit. I know it's my own personal bias, but I really do not appreciate it when other players make comments on another person's profile, whether it's good or bad. I think it's a rude thing to do unless you're actually willing to help them with a VERY lengthy discussion, and only when they desperately need it. Even then it shouldn't be a post; just a PM.

Why?

Because every time you make a comment on someone's profile, that profile gets bumped back up to the top of the profile lists. The way the system works is a "Bottom, up" ladder. Meaning that the profiles on the bottom of the forums are the ones that get checked first. It's a good system, 'cause it's fair to the people who have been waiting longer on their profile, and a great way to stick it to the impatient players who do self-bumps.

But that all gets fucked up whenever a player decides to write a quick 1-sentence "Oh man, what an awesome character!" or " Man you have a really shitty history that doesn't have any development at all, lawl.". You screw that player over in the long run by forcing that profile to be bumped to the top, even if you made a post with good intentions.
Spoiler:


"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
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#7
Krent Wrote:You screw that player over in the long run by forcing that profile to be bumped to the top, even if you made a post with good intentions.
If players don't point out errors in a profile and it drops to the bottom, a GM will get to it and request the same thing. Only then it will have taken even longer. If you see things, it would definitely be helpful to the player to point them out, but because of the bumping issue it means PMs are probably the best way to do this. Constructive criticism is welcomed in profiles, though, no matter who it comes from--this should be definite, because someone will get to the problems eventually. Better to do it sooner than later.
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#8
Moose Wrote:
Krent Wrote:You screw that player over in the long run by forcing that profile to be bumped to the top, even if you made a post with good intentions.
If players don't point out errors in a profile and it drops to the bottom, a GM will get to it and request the same thing. Only then it will have taken even longer. If you see things, it would definitely be helpful to the player to point them out, but because of the bumping issue it means PMs are probably the best way to do this. Constructive criticism is welcomed in profiles, though, no matter who it comes from--this should be definite, because someone will get to the problems eventually. Better to do it sooner than later.

Yeah...but I keep seeing one-sentence posts pop up on profile all the freaking time. Stuff usually like, "Oh this doesn't seem right at all..." or "Haha, what a great concept man!". Lil comments that don't try to be helpful or constructive. If they are pointing out a problem, they don't try to add any weight or helpful suggestions. I get irritated at that kind of thing, just 'cause it does more harm than good.

Unless you're willing to add weight to your criticisms and open up a helpful dialogue, I think it's better to just keep your opinions as a player to yourself.
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"What a mess we made, when it all went wrong..."
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#9
I do have to agree with Krent though, PMs are the way to go with that. I like that players wanna be helpful, and I won't tell 'em that they can't put criticism into a profile, but when it comes down to it, I'd ask people to not post in my own unless they were a GM, and I have done that in the past.

Reason being, like Krent says, is that sometimes what you say may not even matter to the GMs, or in most cases it bogs up a profile with a bunch of pedantic posts about the color of someone's eyes.



We appreciate the help of players on the GM side, but for the most part I prefer if it's left up to us to handle it. That way, when we do say something it has a bit of weight behind it, and the players don't need us to post saying "Oh yeah, change that, teehee."






However, back onto topic, I think the best help we can get from you guys is for you to take what we GMs are trying to convey, and work with it rather than argue it to death with us. It can get very frustrating, especially when it's something that's no big deal to change.


DOESN'T mean I don't want you to constructively give us input from your end, however.
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#10
I think a differentiation needs to be made between:

"Luv the personality, but could you chanage the history a bit when he got to Durotar because it doesn't make sense to my lore and I'd liek that, kthxbai." posts (which are often annoying)
and messages that give feedback on the obvious:
"I know the GMs won't let you play this light-blessed undead elf demon-hunter aligned with the burning legion. Explanation why:(...) Reccomandations:(...) -or- I know the GMs won't let it go with a three-line personality/history. Reccomandations of on what and how to expand:(...) "

While the first, even when menaning well, belongs in PMs at most, I think the second category of basically giving feedback that the GMs are rather sure to give (and saving them a bit of the trouble and frustration) should go in the actual profile thread.
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#11
Oh please, I know I triggered this topic LOL

Quote:Every time you say..."WELL THEY CAN BE DIFFERENT" "THERE IS ALWAYS ONE THAT DOESN'T FOLLOW THE CROWD" "UNIQUE POWER" or whatever else you'd like to say...When we have such a small community, it really loses it's value.

Quite natural, really, but even I know what the general types of people whose profile shout like this.

I'm actually a head board of a text-based roleplaying for almost three years and administrator of another, and playing in other forums as well. The difference is that I can observe everything they do and there is not a lot of player-character interaction (which I'd be improving on).

From personal experience and with my less-than-a-week active stay in coth, usually past events affect a person's judgment. I think most profiles I end up forcing to accept were assasins/murderers. I'm quite lenient when it comes to profile and let members do what they want to do, but no matter what I try to say in order to help them improve, they somehow never get the point (like reminding them that killing can get you into trouble but then they kill the police >>;).

I'm still weighing the difference between my years of roleplaying and this board, but if this were such a small place, then why deny those with rather 'unique' characters (unique with boundries, of course). For 1, it'd create a trend that everyone will learn to get sick of and finally never make again. I think rather than trying to stop what bad thing would happen (an influx of amnestic characters) is to warn/remind them of such events. I mean, it's better for a community to learn :P then again, it'd be a pain for the community XD

But I guess it's how you guys decide to run things.

Anyway, Spiderman's grandfather thinks that with great powers, comes great responsibility. I think what's wrong with those with 'unique' characters is players who didn't exactly think through it well especially with WoW's colorful lore make certain actions that isn't very fair or pleasing for the general roleplaying.

Lastly, for the players. I think it'd be nice if they throw plenty of cents in, because it's less intimidating to talk with them (then again there's the workshop for that XD I thikn).

Well, there's a lot of factor, but help for the good is always nice.
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#12
Rensin Wrote:DISCLAIMER: In no way is this directed at any one person. Please, don't take offense to this, as I am posting this in the hopes that people will read it, and try to be as cohesive as possible when it comes to working with us GMs.

Duck, this was my first line in the topic.
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#13
Rensin Wrote:
Rensin Wrote:DISCLAIMER: In no way is this directed at any one person. Please, don't take offense to this, as I am posting this in the hopes that people will read it, and try to be as cohesive as possible when it comes to working with us GMs.

Duck, this was my first line in the topic.

I know ^^ No further comment :P Gave me thoughts about topic.
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#14
EpicDuck Wrote:From personal experience and with my less-than-a-week active stay in coth, usually past events affect a person's judgment. I think most profiles I end up forcing to accept were assasins/murderers. I'm quite lenient when it comes to profile and let members do what they want to do, but no matter what I try to say in order to help them improve, they somehow never get the point (like reminding them that killing can get you into trouble but then they kill the police >>;).

First, I am going to say, 'You have been here less than a week, and a majority of us who have been here for almost/over a year can say we have seen plenty of people wanting to be special.' People, think in real life and in games, that they have to be the center of attention; it really is human nature. But with that, knowing when making correct and wise decisions in order to be the center without pushing policies and staff around really is key. When I said it before, I really did mean that we have these policies for a reason. We, unlike other servers, pride ourselves on lack of dragons, mixed up Aliiances and Hordes, demon hunters, and a myriad of other nonsensical character concepts, and really, we plan on staying this way.

Now, if people can't understand this, and find that arguing with staff members and players in order to have their "special-characters around" then maybe this isn't the right server for them. Not that we don't want people here, we just know when things really do not fit correctly.

We have all gone through the 'we are special' phases, believe me. But in all honesty, it is how you take the criticism and grow from it, not just as a character but as the player as well. Just try to take that into consideration.
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#15
Methinks the topic hath been derailed.
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