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Undead to Forsaken?
#1
I searched wiki but I can't find good answer.
My question is: How do Undead or someone turns to Forsaken?
Do they wake up from death and say. "I'm Forsaken, great..." or do they need some special 'wakening'.
Or did they all wake up then Lich King and guys become weaker?

I hope I get some answers, this is bugging me for couple of days.
[Image: irontrooperx.png]
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#2
If i remember right evry undead was first with the lich king then Sylvanas came and freed a bunch from the Lich king. I do not know what the progress is or how she did it.
Mabra Dragonbasher- A battle hungry dwarven lady, hirable for personal protection and for larger tasks requiring violence.
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#3
All current Forsaken members were freed from the Lich King´s mental grip during the Third War, when Illidan attacked the Ice Crown and thus weakened Ner´zhul´s powers as he redirected them at defending himself (the fact that a lot of power seeped out through the crack that Frostmourne had made probably didn´t help either).

A great quote for what happened.

lemmi Wrote:Illidan assaulted Icecrown using a spell generated from the Eye of Sargeras, causing the Lich King's power to weaken considerably. The Lich King may have been destroyed completely, but the spell was interrupted but Tyrande and Malfurion. When he was weakened, a large portion of the Scourge were able to break free from the Lich King's mental domination, and regain their free will. Keep in mind that while Sylvanas Windrunner was among the undead who broke free, she was not responsible for their freedom. In essence they freed themselves when the hold on their minds loosened, she (in time) was simply the one who rose to lead them. (though all Forsaken may not know/believe this)

To be precise, the majority of the free-willed undead (many of which are now among the Forsaken) were under the control of the three Dreadlords (Varimathras, Detheroc, and Balnazzar) when they broke free from Ner'zhul's control, evidenced by the fact that the Dreadlords ordered them to attack Arthas as he flead the Capital City in Wacraft 3: The Frozen Throne. As such, the battles between Sylvanas and the Dreadlords were essentially free-willed undead against free-willed undead, they simply had different commanders.

In the end, Sylvanas was the victor, and those free-willed undead who had survived the conflict (Sylvanas vs. Dreadlords) rallied together under Sylvanas to from the Forsaken, regardless of whether they had initially been under the command of one of the Dreadlords, or Sylvanas the entire time. Varimathras joined her, and so many of his suviving undead joined with hers early on. Most of the other two dreadlords' undead were killed when Sylvanas defeated them, but since the Forsaken stood as the only undead faction after the conflict was over, the only logical explanation was that the remaining undead of Detheroc and Balnazzar's armies joined her. In the end, she proclaimed a new order, under which all free-willed undead could unite and claim vengeance upon the Scourge.

Most importantly however, it was not long after the Forsaken formed that Arthas reached Icecrown and defeated Illidan (who was now assaulting the Frozen Throne physically), rescuing the (still weakened) Lich King from destruction. At this point, Arthas broke the frozen casket in which Ner'zhul was encased, freeing his spirit, only to unite with him moments later, becoming one solitary being. (Blizzard has yet to elaborate whether Ner'zhul simply took control of Arthas' body, or if the two are acting in unison.) Nonetheless, when they united, the Lich King's power was completely restored, and has since grown even futher.

As his power was restored, his mental hold on the Scourge returned to full strength, making it impossible for any more undead to break away from his telepathic domination. Those who were among the Forsaken were more or less set in permanence, no others from the Scourge could break free and join their ranks.

No undead have managed to wrest out of the Lich King´s control by himself since, a few, very few has been freed by the Forsaken´s necromancers.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#4
That answered all, thanks.
[Image: irontrooperx.png]
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#5
Kinda a follow up question. I know you said that very few have been freed from the Lich King control after he regained power but is he the only one that can create them? Can the Forsaken animate a dead body or any other person? Some one that wanted the newly resin to be free or did not have as much power so the undead where freed more easily?
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#6
I believe that Necromancers have existed since before the Lich King, and still do independantly of him. Most of these tend to be Human, although there's most likely some undercover Necromancers amongst other Races as well. Atleast I know that there's been a dwarven necromancer, and I have no problems of thinking a few gnomes meddle in it. As for the Horde, there's been both Troll and Orcish Necromancers I think?

Is Necromancy allowed in the Forsaken society though? I think that it used to be frowned upon or outright illegal, but there may have been some development at this server in particular that i'm not aware of.
Hogral Coalbeard - Impulsive Explorer
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#7
There are other necromancers that raise undead, there´s also Death Knights, Graven ones and the RAS that work with it to some extent too. Death Knights and the RAS doesn´t seem to be able to create any of the more intelligent undead but rather creatures as the zombies/ghouls and abominations. The necromancers and graven ones have the ability to raise more intelligent undead (the skeletal mages and undead minions) but they are usually kept in short leashes (they probably are a bit afraid of what their minions would do if free all of a sudden).

Necromancy was looked down upon and even outlawed amongst the Forsaken in their first phase of "life" but once they (or rather Sylvannas) saw the benefits of having necromancers to aid in the freeing of new Forsaken and/or help with the RAS´ research the opinion changed. That´s how it´s outlined in one of these RPG books at least (can´t remember which one, I´ll see if I can find it later).

The trolls and their voodoo sometimes mix with very necromantic spells, they have their own ways to raise the undead.

Orcs definitely have had necromancers, better known as necrolytes, most of the original necrolytes were killed and turned into the first Death Knights though. Now a days you can find NPCs called necrolytes near in Hellfire, not sure if there´s more.

The Draenei have their "death speakers" in Auchindoun and they certainly seems very capable of raising both skeletons and ghosts.

Humans I believe was less successful until after the third war. Seeing as not even Kel´thuzad, an archmage and member of the ruling five of Dalaran (not lacking resources at that point I assume) couldn´t even keep rats alive for more than a few minutes until he was taught by Ner´zhul/the Lich king.

After that the dark arts seems to have flourished however, perhaps it was easier to learn when they could study the already raised undead?

Anyhow I´d love to hear more of dwarf you talked about, Hogral.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#8
I was, in fact, mistaken.
There used to be a Human Necromancer ransacking the Dwarven Graveyards at Dun Morogh, named Toren Snapjoint. A competing (dwarven) warlock tricked some adventurers into killing him, before getting killed himself, though. I previously thought that Toren was a dwarf too, but after checking the RPG book for details, it turns out I was wrong.

There are Dwarven Warlocks though, and Dwarves can be both greedy, cold, calculating and curious - I have few problems believing that there are Dwarven Necromancers about, with the vast plethora of dwarven burial sites spread all over the Kingdom, just well hidden! There's Dwarves amongst the Scholomance Necromancers too, I think?
Hogral Coalbeard - Impulsive Explorer
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#9
Aye, the only races I have hard time seeing necromancers amongst are the Tauren and Furbolgs, though with the Grimtotems... we´ll, the dreanei can become Death knights and they already have necromancer-like NPCs... who knows what can happen.
All makt åt Tengil, vår befriare!

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#10
Indeed.
I've never heard of a Tauren that's done anything vaguely arcane at all though,
but then again, Necromancers are outcasts from society - They'd most likely not be restrained by prejudice and taboo's of their own race.

Then again, a Dwarf, Human or Orc will be able to seek out the required knowledge, and already know a bit about its effects trough rumours and stories. A tauren or furbolg on the other hand, would not have any means of getting to know anything about Necromancy, save for vague rumours, in their own homelands (if we presume the Forsaken at Thunder Bluff are not necromancers /inclined to share the knowledge). For that reason i'd imagine that while say, a dwarf, might come to consider delving into it, that'd be far from the thoughts of an Evil Tauren, and far harder to pull off.
Hogral Coalbeard - Impulsive Explorer
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#11
Oh, another question related.
Can Forsaken die by head cutting or so, and someone to reanimate/ revive him, again?
[Image: irontrooperx.png]
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#12
The basic rule for fighting undead is that once the head is destroyed beyond what can be sown together properly, or cut off, the undead is dead for real. Forever. I'm not sure if there's any exeptions to this rule.
Hogral Coalbeard - Impulsive Explorer
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#13
Hmm, and can be Forsaken/ Undead or whatever, be raised when dead for 'second' time.
I though making character starting from second time so I wonder if there is some way.
[Image: irontrooperx.png]
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#14
If the head is still intact, meaning the brain, then yes, a necromancer could repair them. HOWEVER, if they -die-, meaning that their brain no longer functions due to severe trauma, or has been detatched from the body, then no, they cannot come around again for a second time.
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#15
Rensin Wrote:If the head is still intact, meaning the brain, then yes, a necromancer could repair them. HOWEVER, if they -die-, meaning that their brain no longer functions due to severe trauma, or has been detatched from the body, then no, they cannot come around again for a second time.
Hmm, so that means its head must be untouched, so how should he die to be revived soon?
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