Conquest of the Horde

Velasco Wrote:Let us not forget that in reality: fish breathe oxygen. Its in the water. Sure, they have to use special equipment to get it... But... Yeah. Oxygen is trapped in water. Also, we are forgetting flares that burn under water (sure, based on chemical reaction, but still "flame")...

So yeah. I feel it is viable. Depending on your mage's personality and skill level of course. And if you are a warlock pretending to be a fire mage... Its gonna be a long shot. :P

Oxygen constitutes 21% of the atmosphere, in water it is about 0.6%. Also, presence of Oxygen wouldn't enable starting of fire, Oxygen supports combustion but cannot give rise to it by itself.

Uh, just going to throw this out...

Why try to bring logical, science into a fictional land different than others? (Yes I understand that they took ideas from like..every where, but just because you haven't found something to say 'no' means that you also haven't found something to say 'yes'.) People put way too many restraints on this game...I mean, some I agree with, but honestly?

Go for it. Like what the two other GMs already said.

The Absence of evidence, does not mean evidence of absence

Spoilered for language.


I think Arcane could fuel it if you were making a flame of energy.

But if you are trying to conjure -fire- I doubt it would work.

But it is a fantasy game. If Hippogryphs can talk. Fire should be able to happen underwater. /sagenod

Fire requires three things to burn. Flammable material, oxygen and heat. Magic can substitute two of those, by creating fire out of thin air. I don't see why it can't substitute the third, and sustain a flame underwater.

Though, I reckon it would be harder than regular fire, since water's pretty good at removing or surpressing all three required elements.

ThePharaoh Wrote:But it is a fantasy game. If Hippogryphs can talk. Fire should be able to happen underwater. /sagenod

Forget that, there are people that can down right turn into animals at will, or so it would seem. I don't think underwater fire should be a concern... Not to this extent at the very least.

Arcane fire burns no matter what until whatever source giving it arcane energy is cut off.

so yes, it can burn underwater as long as the mage supplies it energy; it is NOT regular fire.

One more thing, I'm kinda tired of seeing people get set on fire by magic in a roll fight (especially if its to the death) patting off the fire like its nothing special. I mean I know its kinda unfair to have someone set on fire and leave them that way but it would still take energy to do. I might want to try coming up with a type of roll fighting system that gives benefits to things like that, like spells have a chance to have certain effects (basically you roll to see if you can continue supplying energy to the spell). Or bullets have a chance to stun or make a - roll.

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Ultimately, it is up to the interpretation of the spell caster whether there is fire underwater or not.

It is not only possible, it is essential.

ThePharaoh Wrote:.......
But it is a fantasy game. If Hippogryphs can talk. Fire should be able to happen underwater. /sagenod

That's like attributing natural phenomena that can't be explained by conventional wisdom to a divine act.

Yes, its a fantasy setting (with talking Hypogryphs /sigh) but I still wouldn't recommend assuming things like these.

Or perhaps we are taking this a little too far. :\

And Zunaj, what you said isn't possible.

Shane Wrote:And Zunaj, what you said isn't possible.

Because...

Zunaj Wrote:

Shane Wrote:And Zunaj, what you said isn't possible.

Because...

Arcane magic is generally all about will, so most mages fresh out of Dalaran University will have no problem casting a fireball under water.

WELL. Yes. Arcane fire would burn underwater, but you're not going to be doing anything grand with it. It'll be hard to keep it going. You keep talking about Dalaran university graduates being able to conjure and control it, and of course, they're advances mages, but not every run-of-the-mill mage will be able to accomplish this. There's still the problem of the water, and lack of oxygen. It's a fireball so it's not actually burning any secondary fuel either, which is already taking up your concentration. Supplying enough magic to maintain said ball of magical kick-ass is going to woop yow mind. I would say, personally, that your average mage would be able to keep a spark, about the size of the flame from a cigarette lighter, going for about ten minutes? Maybe something like an ordinary fireball could be kept in your hand for about 30 seconds. Throwing that fireball is an entirely different ball game (See what I did there guys?) because that requires applying kinetic energy to the thing in a sustained manner. Notice how your fireballs fly in game? Yeah, that's not because you threw it, you directed it. So, that's not gonna happen until you're a Dalaran University graduate. In my opinion.

Take my two copper, or leave them on the counter. They're there now ^^

The two copper have a tiny bit of pocket lint too, from where I editted the spelling >.<

*noms pocket lint*

Shane Wrote:Justifying fireballs in water by saying that magic defies logical reasoning would have been fine if we had a reference in lore of someone being able to produce fireballs underwater, being unable to find that, we have to come up with valid reasoning ourselves. Say, a mage can turn a human into a sheep, then should be he able to turn him into a rat or any other animal? (I donno if its possible, my lore's weak) We can't simply justify that simply by saying that since its magic, its possible to do so.

I'd argue the opposite. If we are faced with something that is clearly possible within the context of the game, but with no explanation as to why, it's up to us to either accept that there is no rational explanation or to ignore it for the sake of game balance or the story.

There will always be a problem with trying to justify, or contradict, magic with hard science. Magic is, by its definition, outside of science. Mages make a living off of warping and bending the rules of reality. We can't just say "This isn't possible because of physics" when we have no real reason to believe that physics have any bearing on what the mage is doing. Throwing a fireball underwater makes about as much sense as a giant blue lizard being able to fly and breathe ice. I could come up with a ton of reasons why dragons shouldn't be able to exist, but that doesn't change the fact that they do.

There will always be odd glitches in logic in anything dealing with fantasy or sci-fi. We just have to accept it.

Umm, please don't think I'm dumb, but,

wouldn't the temperature of the fire also determine how long it could be sustained under water? I'm pretty sure if the fireball was, say the sun temperature, that it would simply evaporate the water around it, sucking the oxygen too. Though, that would suggest, to me anyway =S, that only an extremly powerful mage can anything substantial with fire under water anyway.

Sorry if I'm not welcome to join in, I apologise for being rude =S