Alright then, guys. Normally, I'm pretty mellow with lots of things, but there's something I need to address that has simply gotten far out of hand, and all of the staff I've spoken to is in agreement with this.
As GMs, when players ask us to play the role of a guard to sort out something they'd naturally respond to, we have no qualms with answering it. I bet you're thinking "why not just let players do it?", and to answer this, it's because it would be abused. We've seen it done before, and it gets very ugly. BUT, back onto the main point. Players seriously need to stop causing so much drama and fighting within cities. We've had a ridiculous amount of tickets, whispers or for all sake of argument, requests to sort out the next pair or group of people who can't stop causing a fuss. Whilst we generally don't mind playing as NPCs, having so many in such a short time just gets tiring and annoying. Now, for reference, these are the kind of things that don't go well with guards.
Quote:- Fighting in public places
- Causing trouble, mischief, or otherwise disturbing the peace
- Threatening civillians, guards, ambassadors, merchants, etc
- Breaking any sort of crime like filching/stealing, etc
- Talking about murder in public places
- Talking about conspiracy in public places
- Talking of general shady topics in public places
The list could go on most likely, but these are the things that come to mind. Breaking any of these will likely result in you being thrown in jail, or in the worst case, execution. So before you go to leap at the other guy's throat or talk about who you plan to poison, please think twice, as we don't want to keep having to do this 15 times a week. There's PLENTY of places to fight, and you can even do it outside the city. Just not in line of sight of guards!
Well it could possibly be allowed in a place where an innkeeper was only looking and you punched the person.. Then nothing more.. Right?
I'd like to reiterate that part of what the staff does (particularly Content GMs) involves puppeting guards and other NPCs when the need arises. However, having numerous tickets pop up throughout the day requesting us to stop a fight -- and, mind you, not from the participants but instead from by-standers -- is fairly asinine. We shouldn't have to show up in an area and then find a group of players fighting right in front of a guard with nary a care in the world.
Or threatening to steal someone's soul.
There are IC repercussions to your characters' actions. We will enforce them. And while sometimes this can lead to new and awesome roleplay (for example, I worked with a player recently who wanted to brawl in a goblin city and wanted to be punished for it. We decided, entirely on whim, to force the player to participate in an arena match as punishment), sometimes people just don't think. Sometimes, they continue with their actions even when a guard is being puppeted by a staff member. When those punishments are levied, they sometimes don't understand why. And it's placing a larger, undue burden on the staff.
Another thing to keep in mind is that sometimes the repercussions can extend beyond just the people who were physically brawling. Don't be surprised if a large group of people end up being jailed even if they were just standing on the sidelines watching.
Bottom line: we're getting tired of it.
The thing is, as soon as evil folks leave a city to discuss doing evil things, lo and behold a paladin/warrior/hero type was following them the entire time! They didn't ICly know for a fact they were evil, but they saw the guild tag or flag RSP description or class, and OOCly decided to follow them because they OOCly know they are up to no good.
Now, yes, evil folks could just stay in the Catacombs to discuss evil plans, but they have to stretch their legs sometimes. Plus it gets real stuffy down there.
And the worst part is when a hero threatens a villain right in front of the guards. This goes both ways. People in general need to stop threatening each other in cities.
I think the GM's should let us use the guards in situations where the guards would definitely react, and there are no GM's online that aren't already busy. Or perhaps the admins could create a GM team who's job it is to RP as guards.
I really always thought that it was obvious that you couldn't do that.
Quote:I think the GM's should let us use the guards in situations where the guards would definitely react, and there are no GM's online that aren't already busy. Or perhaps the admins could create a GM team who's job it is to RP as guards.
While perhaps leading away from the thread and deserves a new one, ^ This. I like it. Perhaps not solely for guards, but perhaps some people (or GMs) are willing to puppeteer NPC's around by random chance to add some more immersion to the world. Not solely guards, but innkeepers, random traders or bystanders when you least except it. It reminds people that the NPC's are infact really there as well. These players/GMs wouldn't deal with the other tickets (apart from leveling perhaps), but they add constant immersion to the world instead.
Just a idea, no clue if it's actually fun to never really hold a character of your own and puppeteer around, but still. ^^
Psychyn Wrote:Quote:I think the GM's should let us use the guards in situations where the guards would definitely react, and there are no GM's online that aren't already busy. Or perhaps the admins could create a GM team who's job it is to RP as guards.
While perhaps leading away from the thread and deserves a new one, ^ This. I like it. Perhaps not solely for guards, but perhaps some people (or GMs) are willing to puppeteer NPC's around by random chance to add some more immersion to the world. Not solely guards, but innkeepers, random traders or bystanders when you least except it. It reminds people that the NPC's are infact really there as well. These players/GMs wouldn't deal with the other tickets (apart from leveling perhaps), but they add constant immersion to the world instead.
Just a idea, no clue if it's actually fun to never really hold a character of your own and puppeteer around, but still. ^^
I kinda like this idea, but yes I agree to Hawk.
The most annoying thing remains when some hero-type character (a Paladin, most likely) intervenes, even out of cities, and take the law in their own hands. One or two might be overzealot about this and it's fine - but MOST of them Holy Knights are usually threatening, maiming people. This also drifts away, but I think it needs to be sorted. Paladins aren't law enforcing officers.
Of course when they threaten people within cities, it's even worse. Two cents of ranting.
As a side note, I find it amusing that the majority of these instances I've heard of are Alliance-side. And they call the Horde savages! Pah!
Of late I've sorta lost my taste for the pejoratively dubbed 'ebul' people out there. Granted, I have seen plenty of belligerent and overly-zealous paladins; this is in no way a defense of them, nor a condemnation of any who wish to play evil. Rather, I'd like to point out that having two folk march into a tavern, hissing malice and dressed in all black - garbed, as it were, in every evil cliche in the .lo rp - then leave to discuss their evil is still on the wrong side of subtle.
In that case, how can you -not- expect a do-gooder to follow you out? (Unrelated sidenote, my mac tried to correct that as 'do-goober'. I think I have a new term for the annoyingly good. Ebul vs. do-goobers. Love it. Back on point).
One of the best representations of 'evil' I've seen, thus far, are a couple of the HC who walk around in normal clothes. Tunics. Pants. Boots. Maybe a hat.
OOCly I remember that he was the one who was tossing fel-fire at me, cackling maniacally and mocking my sense of morals while dressed in a beautifully ornate robe of skulls and bones. But how do I recognize that guy ICly now? I don't. So when he quietly walks off with another equally innocuous fella, my do-goober doesn't follow. No reason.
Subtlety - on the ebul side and the do-goober side - is, in my humble opinion, the real answer to this sorta behavior.
AM180 Wrote:The thing is, as soon as evil folks leave a city to discuss doing evil things, lo and behold a paladin/warrior/hero type was following them the entire time! They didn't ICly know for a fact they were evil, but they saw the guild tag or flag RSP description or class, and OOCly decided to follow them because they OOCly know they are up to no good.
This is meta-gaming. It is a punishable offense. If players are unduly interfering with roleplay by utilizing meta-knowledge, you should contact a staff member. We want to make roleplay as accessible as possible (and reasonable) to all players, whether they play good or evil characters.
AM180 Wrote:I think the GM's should let us use the guards in situations where the guards would definitely react, and there are no GM's online that aren't already busy.
I am fairly certain that we will never allow players to play guards. It has the unfortunate likelihood of leading to abuse. I mean, look at the players who are part of the military and want to act as defacto guards. Recently, the staff was asked to levy punishments against characters because players had taken it upon themselves to jail them; they were claiming that they had the right to do so, even if they lacked the power.
Furthermore, even if players were allowed to roleplay guards, they lack the ability to enforce the results. One player could roleplay a guard stopping a fight. Another could roleplay the same guard as tossing the offenders into jail. Another could roleplay the guard as smacking someone on the head to knock him out. Which one is correct? Which one should players follow? And, why should people even listen? They can't enforce the punishment.
AM180 Wrote:Or perhaps the admins could create a GM team who's job it is to RP as guards.
All full-fledged staff members (in other words, above Trial GMs) can puppet NPCs. Generally, however, Content GMs are the ones tasked with this duty since the world, events, and NPC interaction should be their specific focus. We will help by puppeting NPCs, which you can request via Private Message on the forums (even by sending it to the entire group!) or in-game with a ticket. I've done it quite a bit myself, which many people have seen in the past week in Stormwind and Ratchet, just to name two locations.
That said, it's a hassle for a staff member to drop everything to handle a conflict. We may be roleplaying, working, answering tickets, holding events, decorating, planning -- the list goes on and on. The easiest solution is to
not cause problems and follow the rules.
If people stop fighting in cities and towns, maybe the staff could do more rather than rush to break up yet another fight. It is becoming a big problem and one that is requiring our time and efforts on a daily basis.
Kretol Wrote:As a side note, I find it amusing that the majority of these instances I've heard of are Alliance-side. And they call the Horde savages! Pah!
In the past three days I've had to show up for three or four fights. They were
all with Alliance players.
AM180 Wrote:The thing is, as soon as evil folks leave a city to discuss doing evil things, lo and behold a paladin/warrior/hero type was following them the entire time! They didn't ICly know for a fact they were evil, but they saw the guild tag or flag RSP description or class, and OOCly decided to follow them because they OOCly know they are up to no good.
Now, yes, evil folks could just stay in the Catacombs to discuss evil plans, but they have to stretch their legs sometimes. Plus it gets real stuffy down there.
And the worst part is when a hero threatens a villain right in front of the guards. This goes both ways. People in general need to stop threatening each other in cities.
This 100%
Unless said evil folk is not making an effort to hide being "evil." By that, I mean they're wearing black robes with skulls sticking on spikes, some hood with red eyes poking out, and a sinnister looking staff. Then people should not be hunting or stalking these characters based on OOC knowledge of them being a warlock or Shadow Priest or whatever.
Something I'd like to bring to the table is the issue of people flocking to action as well. Happens Horde and Alliance, just because they read an emote suddenly a new sense kicks in and they gotta run around to find the action. It makes back-alley stuff where Guards do not normally patrol/look impossible. It is safe to say every city in WoW is heavily guarded though, but there are always places where the law just hasn't gotten to. We need less people meta-gaming to find the action, so that interesting urban RP can occur outside the tavern.
Jeff Wrote:[...]
Something I'd like to bring to the table is the issue of people flocking to action as well. Happens Horde and Alliance, just because they read an emote suddenly a new sense kicks in and they gotta run around to find the action. It makes back-alley stuff where Guards do not normally patrol/look impossible. It is safe to say every city in WoW is heavily guarded though, but there are always places where the law just hasn't gotten to. We need less people meta-gaming to find the action, so that interesting urban RP can occur outside the tavern.
I would advise you, to use group chat in the future for that.
Yeah. What Mayson said.
It's gotten to where I've had to go into Party or Raid chat with certain conversations
because people were way too keen to Meta-game through walls and from down the street.
Prevention is just easier than reporting it or pointing it out to the offenders.
Quote:Something I'd like to bring to the table is the issue of people flocking to action as well. Happens Horde and Alliance, just because they read an emote suddenly a new sense kicks in and they gotta run around to find the action. It makes back-alley stuff where Guards do not normally patrol/look impossible. It is safe to say every city in WoW is heavily guarded though, but there are always places where the law just hasn't gotten to. We need less people meta-gaming to find the action, so that interesting urban RP can occur outside the tavern.
Now see this, I can actually agree on. My character, Hieronymus operates in disguise and in back alleys. And I like to safely assume towns like Stormwind, Ratchet, Booty Bay, and Orgrimmar and so on have plenty of back alley-ways and whatnot. Now to my experience guards rarely travel in back alleys, just the same as Police Officers IRL rarely travel through alley ways it just infuriates me almost as much as someone shooting a gun at someone in front of a guard.
And all that makes it fun to RP being a shady guy in some alley way, be it Old Town, Trade District, or Cut-Throat Alley. And there could be more. But when I try to RP in there and some hot-shot hero guy walks through the shop into Cut-Throat thinking that the OTHER criminals there wouldn't jump him to keep their little gathering place under wraps.
If I derailed a bit, sorry.. just had to get this out.