Ben Wrote:Nexi said this earlier. Will you please all read bloody threads before you go screaming about them.
Quote:If you look at our wiki on Dark Rangers, it clearly says that a Forsaken can be one. True, it says they are former High Elves, but if we're not allowing them it'd have been pretty silly of us to make the title accessible, no? The only logical explanation is that any Forsaken, regardless of their race in life, can go that road if they possess certain basic skills. If we look at what a Dark Ranger is, it's simply an archer with necromancer abilities, both things a Human can be, really.
Did you not accept this as being there, or simply were too careless and didn't read it.
I read it, Ben. But still, for the prestige title, you must have been a Ranger in life...yes, they are archers with necromantic powers, but they aren't JUST archers. They are the best of the best in life, the cream of the crop. None are better. Meaning they must have been rangers. Again, Humans cannot be rangers.
It also stated secifically in the Wowwiki article that most dark rangers refuse to teach their arts and that only ex-high elves have the understanding to be able to become a Dark Ranger.
I'm completely neutral in this, but the pro-side is just making more sense according to me.
Sometimes we need to improvise a bit on the lore and things need to be changed. If that means that the dark ranger prestige requires you to be a forsaken human than so be it. The point is that we can't have high elf characters, even in the form of being undead, if that is the decision.
Spiralin Wrote:A high elf forsaken, was just a Forsaken that was a high elf in life. He's dead now, you don't need a whole new model and race, the race of Forsaken is a mixture of humans and high elves. It's called, Imagination. Just pretend he has his ears or something. Or say they got cut off. Blood elves use to be high elves, forsaken use to be high elves. Are they now? No. Did both of them use to be? Yes. So I see that there's no true difference. How can we play blood elf if you say there's no high elves allowed at all? The only difference is that they have green eyes. Forsaken have more differences then a belf had to a helf.
High Elves are just not allowed in any state. Please read this page on the wiki.
http://wiki.conquestofthehorde.com/High_Elf
Blood Elves are not 'just corrupted High Elves'. They are a different race altogether at this point.
Quote:Look what I found! By a simple Wowwiki search! I'd say that a human Dark Ranger is so rare it's almost lore character level.
"Nearly all dark rangers are undead high elves found only among the Forsaken. No other faction has the elves' history coupled with the personal knowledge of shadows to learn the arts of a dark ranger. In fact, many dark rangers refuse to teach their arts to anyone who wasn't a former elf. While these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves.
There has been only one recording of a human ranger and subsequent dark ranger. Nathanos Blightcaller's resurrection as one of the Forsaken and service to the Dark Lady has earned him the rank of Champion of the Banshee Queen. He resides at Marris Stead in the Eastern Plaguelands."
The key words there are 'nearly all' and 'most'. This means that not all Dark Rangers were once High Elves. There are human Dark Rangers out there.
Quote:I read it, Ben. But still, for the prestige title, you must have been a Ranger in life...yes, they are archers with necromantic powers, but they aren't JUST archers. They are the best of the best in life, the cream of the crop. None are better. Meaning they must have been rangers. Again, Humans cannot be rangers.
Well if this is the case, then the prestige class Dark Ranger would just have to be removed. Because High Elves are not allowed.
The only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is their eye color and the type of magic they feed off of. So no, Xigo, they aren't a difference race.
Naaah, that wiki page leaves it open.
"while these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves"
A human dark ranger is viable. Of these truths we hold self evident, or something like that.
Also, in cataclysm, humans can be hunters, and by extension, rangers. They aren't complete novices at ranging, look at their catapults and advanced crossbow-like weaponry. Someone's gotta be able to use that well. And they're one hell of a ranger.
Do they HAVE to be able to use bows? Crossbows will work too...and voila. Natural skill is plausable for anything. Humans in Warcraft are like Humans in real life, the most diverse. They can survive anywhere and turn their hand to almost anything. I'm sure quite a few will have the natural talent required to be a ranger, and it wouldn't be extraordinary for there to be a fair few living in the Plaguelands at that oh-so-lovely time. Kaboom, you got'cha undead human ranger. Works in my head.
Wuvvums Wrote:Sometimes we need to improvise a bit on the lore and things need to be changed. If that means that the dark ranger prestige requires you to be a forsaken human than so be it. The point is that we can't have high elf characters, even in the form of being undead, if that is the decision.
Where does that put me? Completely retcon Skaar?
I'm not quite sure. There have been some characters that slipped under the radar before. I would ask the GM staff, but I think they would be reasonable and not tell you to get rid of your character.
Xigo Wrote:Quote:Look what I found! By a simple Wowwiki search! I'd say that a human Dark Ranger is so rare it's almost lore character level.
"Nearly all dark rangers are undead high elves found only among the Forsaken. No other faction has the elves' history coupled with the personal knowledge of shadows to learn the arts of a dark ranger. In fact, many dark rangers refuse to teach their arts to anyone who wasn't a former elf. While these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves.
There has been only one recording of a human ranger and subsequent dark ranger. Nathanos Blightcaller's resurrection as one of the Forsaken and service to the Dark Lady has earned him the rank of Champion of the Banshee Queen. He resides at Marris Stead in the Eastern Plaguelands."
The key words there are 'nearly all' and 'most'. This means that not all Dark Rangers were once High Elves. There are human Dark Rangers out there.
Oh, yes. I don't deny that they exist, it says so right in the article. But it does explain specifically how extremely rare it really is. Ony one recorded human dark ranger. That is taking it beyond "uncommon" all the way to "Extremely Rare." And I simply can't see something that rare as a prestige. So eitehr we'd have to allow High Elf forsaken, something that isn't so bad, or remove the prestige completely, whichd probably piss off a lot of players, espcially those who already are or is training to become one. *coughSkaarcough*
muhaha8 Wrote:The only difference between a Blood Elf and a High Elf is their eye color and the type of magic they feed off of. So no, Xigo, they aren't a difference race.
Quote:These represent signs of evolution from their high elven cousins, and it is believed that, with time, they may become as physically distant to high elves as satyrs are to night elves
Quote is from WoWwiki.
High Elves and Blood Elves are evolving in different directions. Therefore, they are two different races at this point.
Ben Wrote:Naaah, that wiki page leaves it open.
"while these rangers have slackened their restrictions some, most dark rangers were once elves"
A human dark ranger is viable. Of these truths we hold self evident, or something like that.
Also, in cataclysm, humans can be hunters, and by extension, rangers. They aren't complete novices at ranging, look at their catapults and advanced crossbow-like weaponry. Someone's gotta be able to use that well. And they're one hell of a ranger.
Do they HAVE to be able to use bows? Crossbows will work too...and voila. Natural skill is plausable for anything. Humans in Warcraft are like Humans in real life, the most diverse. They can survive anywhere and turn their hand to almost anything. I'm sure quite a few will have the natural talent required to be a ranger, and it wouldn't be extraordinary for there to be a fair few living in the Plaguelands at that oh-so-lovely time. Kaboom, you got'cha undead human ranger. Works in my head.
So wait, you're telling me that it's only a small stepping stone between a hunter and a Ranger? I don't believe that.
Quote:'m not quite sure. There have been some characters that slipped under the radar before. I would ask the GM staff, but I think they would be reasonable and not tell you to get rid of your character.
That is called precedent, Wuvvums. allowing one means they will have to allow others.
Muhaha, that's not a precedent. In the end it's the server's call, and if that means there won't be any high elf forsaken, it doesn't mean that they have to change on this rule because someone was accidentally approved with it. GMs make mistakes.
As an example there was a human that was once not passed because she had purple eyes. Another human was in the wiki with purple eyes, however. There was also a draenei that was 1,945 years old, 55 years too young. Mistakes happen, the GM team isn't an infallible force, but that doesn't mean that they're going to throw out a rule because someone happened to get by.
Wuvvums Wrote:Sometimes we need to improvise a bit on the lore and things need to be changed. If that means that the dark ranger prestige requires you to be a forsaken human than so be it. The point is that we can't have high elf characters, even in the form of being undead, if that is the decision.
We don't need to change lore. If anything go along with it and allow us to play forsaken that were once high elves.
Another thing, Forsaken High Elves are a completely different race, same thing you claim with Blood Elves and High Elves.
The Forsaken High Elves become dark rangers because they can not commune with nature, or use powers they once had. A human does not know this feeling, because they don't have rangers that actually 'commune' with nature.
Forsaken are their own race, they simply use to be high elves. Blood Elves are their own race, they simply use to be high elves.
Wuvvums Wrote:Muhaha, that's not a precedent. In the end it's the server's call, and if that means there won't be any high elf forsaken, it doesn't mean that they have to change on this rule because someone was accidentally approved with it. GMs make mistakes.
As an example there was a human that was once not passed because she had purple eyes. Another human was in the wiki with purple eyes, however. There was also a draenei that was 1,945 years old, 55 years too young. Mistakes happen, the GM team isn't an infallible force, but that doesn't mean that they're going to throw out a rule because someone happened to get by.
He was approved by Kretol.
The Blood Elven ranger, is represented in game by the Farstriders. Who are, by in game mechanics, hunters. The point of this article, really, is about in game mechanics. There you go.