Conquest of the Horde

Full Version: On the State of the Server
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Please don't TL;DR. This is an important issue.


Introduction


I would like to preface this by saying that all I am trying to do is offer my help. I mean everything that I say here sincerely, but I am coming to you all with the best of intentions in mind, and I am by no means whatsoever looking for an argument. I feel that our server is in quite a sour state right now, to say the least. The only way that we are going to make any progress is if we change our ways, and change them quickly, otherwise Conquest of the Horde is going to get to the point where it is beyond redemption. I love this server, and the last thing that I want to see is where this server stops being the haven of role playing I have always thought of it as being and becomes a hive of drama, where everyone points fingers at everyone else, where everyone cannot bear to take upon to burden of responsibility required to make this server a better place, and where everyone who does not gets their way leaves in a fit of rage.


Conquest of the Horde: A Case Study


There are many issues that need to be addressed here, and it makes people's heads hurt when they try to tackle all of the issues at once. However, most of them can be merged into one of a few different main categories. In order to effectively cope with these problems, we need to work on them one-by-one, and, instead of trying to tackle one issue all at once, we need to make small steps toward resolving them. In no particular order, I present to you the following issues that plague our server.


Metagaming


The first point I would like to address is metagaming; it cannot be denied that there is a good deal of metagaming that occurs on a day-to-day basis on the server. However, this is an issue that, while difficult to solve, is probably not the most crippling issue at present. Everyone metagames once in a while, at the very least; there's no use in denying it, due to the fact that even looking at the list of online players could, in many ways, be considered an act of metagaming. But, this is something that is entirely excusable. If it weren't, then finding RP would be exceedingly difficult, in many ways! The question still remains, though, of how best to deal with metagamers.

In truth, metagamers are notoriously hard to catch. It is very difficult to definitively prove that someone is using out of character knowledge for in character purposes, and whenever an investigation into the matter is conducted, it inevitably leads to the dragon known as Drama, and everyone gets caught up in the flames, leading to very little progress on any front and serving only to agitate every side. My first suggestion would be to simply not implicate other people in metagaming publicly. If you have a complaint with how someone is metagaming, the best course of action is often to politely whisper the offender and explain to them how you believe you have been wronged. More often than not, they will apologize for what you have said to them, and if you let them know that they were metagaming, then it's less likely that they'll do so again in future.

In addition to this, however, it must be stated that you cannot simply call everyone else out for metagaming, public or private. On the contrary, the best way to keep metagaming form happen is if you make an active effort to keep yourself from doing so! Some might claim that it is everyone else who is metagaming, and therefore they should not be held responsible, but one thing that I have personally noticed is that many times, the people who accuse others of metagaming are among those who metagame the most. This isn't always the case, but it is a bit of food for thought. So, if everyone makes an active effort to watch out for any signs of metagaming they are performing themselves, it will go a long way to making the server a better place. Even if you do not think that you're among those who metagames, you can keep an eye on your actions and try to make them best for everyone else.


Expanding One's Views and Interests


Given what I have just said, I believe this is a good segway into my next point, which is that a lot of people are thinking far more about themselves than about what everyone else wants. Currently, the standard mindset appears to be that everyone wants to think about how best to further their own interests, and the interests of their character, where the minds of everyone should, in my opinion, be on how best to further the server. This is by no means to say that everyone should compromise their own interests in favor of the server.

What I would like to propose is that people make an active effort to make their own goals mesh with the goals of others. This doesn't just mean talk to others and make plans with them. I would simply ask that people, when they decide to perform certain actions, try to keep the following in mind: “If I do this, then what kind of impact is this going to have on others? Are people going to get upset OOC if I do this?” It's just a form of courtesy, and it seems like a fairly small thing to do, and, in the long run, it will make people like you all the more.


Events


Part of what will lead to diversification of roleplaying is events storylines. More events, better events, big events, small events, what have you. Events are the bread to the butter that is character development, no matter what form they take. Events introduce a certain element of the unpredictable and the unknown into roleplay. There is only so much that can happen with characters chatting with each other. There has to be an outside factor, and that's where events come into play.

When I talk about events, I'm not necessarily talking about the sort of event where a GM spontaneously announces “Hey, we're about to do something awesome! Whisper for an invite!” Nor am I necessarily referring to the storylines that people post on the forums, where one might say “This is my idea, who wants to join?” While we could certainly stand to have more of these, that is not what we need most desperately. The events I am mainly speaking of are events where your character walks up to another character, or a group of other characters, and introduces a new element into the roleplay.

One of my most memorable roleplays was one time where I was playing on Tarania, and I came across a person who was walking from Northshire to Goldshire, and I came across them on the street. When prompted as to what I was doing, I had to think of an idea for why Tarania was in the area, and it occurred to me that she could be going to the abbey because she was interested in the different wines that they made there. This resulted in one of the most rewarding roleplays I have ever been in. Even something so small as that could be considered and event, because what we have here is a plot hook. A plot hook that, despite its simple and innocuous nature, could have led to any number of places.

Another example of a good event of this nature would be one time when I was playing on my alt, Harding. In case nobody is familiar with Harding, he is a doctor, of a more practical nature than a priest. I was in the middle of a roleplay, and, out of the blue, a character approached me and told me that he was in desperate need of Harding's services for someone he knew. Despite the fact that I had never met this character in my life, I decided to go along with him. Suddenly, plot. He made up a whole reason to make me go all the way to Westfall, only for me to learn that it was he that needed help, with a poison that would kill him shortly unless the antidote was concocted. Suddenly, plot! Despite the fact that there were only the two of us, he made an incredibly compelling event for me to partake in. I have to say, it was a pleasant change of pace from the RP I often see in Booty Bay.

So what can we take away from this? Don't be afraid to make up a random element to enhance your roleplay, despite that there was no apparent setup to it. Don't be afraid to go up to someone you have only heard of in passing and ask them to do something for you. Don't be afraid to admit that, yes, there is actually an enigmatic assassin trying to kill you, and you desperately need this person's help, despite the fact that the only clue that you have that they might even be remotely helpful is that they have a weapon on their hip. In short, seize the day. Don't be afraid to take risks. Make your lives extraordinary. This is Warcraft, after all.


Custom Zones


One of the underlying cause of annoyance I have found, speaking with both GMs and players, is the issue of the custom RP zone. It's difficult to know where to begin here, because everyone has their own grievances about them, so I'm going to lay down two major facts right here.

1. Players don't go to custom zones. This makes the GMs feel like they're not appreciated when they do hard work and spend hours on their creations.

2. GMs don't respond to the requests of the players when they ask for something, often relatively small, but they will sometimes create a whole new area on a whim. This make the players feel like they're not being listened to, and makes them feel powerless.

Incidentally, the solution to both of these issues is the same: create events. When a GM creates a new zone without telling the players, the correct way to go about doing it isn't saying “Here's a new playground, go have fun now!” This, as any dungeon master in D&D will tell you, is more effective at making your players go and do something completely different than setting up pit traps around your plot hook, layering the floor with poisoned spikes, and setting up signs saying “Danger! Troglodytes ahead!” and leaving the corpses of other player characters strewn around for good measure.

When you want someone to pay attention to something that you have made, you have to make it somehow appealing or rewarding for them to go there. Ironically, the aforementioned pit traps and cautionary signs are actually a remarkably effective way of making people go “Oo, I wonder what I'll find in here!” But, regardless, a passive approach will not get players to come to you. If you have nothing happening in your zone, what you will find will happen is that people will say “Well, what reason do I have to go to somewhere like that?” I have heard almost these exact words said over and over in reference to Azshara Crater and Mimiron's Anchorage. The answer is, well, they don't have any reason to go there, because even an extremely fancy setting by itself is boring for a player to be in. Without plot hooks, players will stick to what they find familiar. On the other hand, if you hold a couple of small, but exciting events in an area, you will find that people start slowly filing in, and if you keep working at it, your zone may even become an RP hub in time!


Communication


On a less uplifting note, we have a notoriously thick wall that seems to separate the players from the GMs. This is the Iron Curtain of Conquest of the Horde. On one side, we have the players, who are frustrated, and want things to change. On the other side, we have the GMs, who are frustrated, and want things to change. Really, everyone has the same goals. The problem is sifting through all the tension and getting the message through.

One issue, perhaps the main issue that we have here is the double standard of Respect. It is our number one rule, it is by far the most important rule, and it is abused beyond belief. Now, one might ask, “How can you possibly abuse something like respect?” The quintessential example, I feel, is when one is attempting to criticize the other. Even if a constructive argument is concocted, I often see people parading Respect around as though it were a shield. The GMs are unwilling to listen to anything that might criticize them from the player base, because they feel that the players are either overreacting or simply trying to incite Drama, and the players don't want to listen to the GMs, because they feel like the GMs are being oppressive and inconsiderate.

Players should not be afraid to go up to GMs and politely tell them that they take issue with something that they are doing. Like with metagaming, if something is pointed out in a considerate way, then it's quite likely that they will listen to what you have to say, and even try to change their ways in the future! Even better, if you provide a suggestion for how you think that they might be able to improve, you'll be helping the server to be a better place overall. And, if by some fluke the GM or player in question is rude to you, despite your attempts to be cordial, you can always take screenshots or logs and send them to the GM team! Yes, this even applies to GMs. Nobody should be unaccountable for their actions.


Commitment


Sadly, it seems like there is something that a good number of us are low on, or lacking entirely, and that is commitment. Commitment to the server, commitment to ourselves, and commitment to each other. There is no party that isn't guilty of this; both players and GMs have become rather apathetic, and it's very sad to see happening. I see people all the time complaining about how all the roleplaying is in Booty Bay, and nobody will roleplay anywhere else. I see people all the time complaining about how the quality of roleplay has gone down over time, and how they just wish that it was as good as it used to be. I see people all the time complaining about how everything has gone down the drain. And therein lies the issue.

The burden of responsibility has been placed upon everyone except ourselves. Of course everyone knows that the server is in a bad state right now! But, somehow, everyone is of the opinion that someone is just going to decide to come along and fix it for them. Basically, everyone is calling for change, but nobody is willing to take a step. In order for progress to be made we must, and I mean absolutely must do things ourselves. The player base can't rely on the GMs to fix all their problems for them. On a similar note, the GMs can't rely on the players to do everything themselves!

Collaboration is critical in this case. But, even more than that, taking individual steps by yourself is even more important. When you finish reading this post, don't just thank it and agree with it – or disagree, as the case may be – actually go and do something! Actions speak far louder than words. Do you think that Kretol started this wonderful server by simply ranting about how Retail RP sucked? No, he went and actually made his own server! We could all learn from his fine example.


In Closing


I feel like a lot of this has been said before, perhaps in different ways, but it deserves being stated again. However, I also feel like there has been a lot that has been neglected in previous posts, and some of them may not have been made in the very best of manners. I've tried my hardest to write a post that will be constructive and helpful for everyone, and will help everyone to overcome their problems on the server.

Finally, I have one thing last thing to say. The best way to fix this server is to take action. Nothing will get done if we continue to sit around and pretend that the answer to all of our troubles will swoop in and solve all of problems. Everyone needs to be a part of this.

Even you.
Well you added some new points, which is good I guess

Problem is in the end it's another post saying "Lets change our server" I think its time the actual GM's stood in as well to fix things, rather then the players trying to band together, but thats just me.
I believe I told you this ICly, but I approve of this post and agree with it completely. This really needed to be said, and it was said in a very well written and eloquent manner. Thank you.
I love you. Please have my babies.
-Waves small CotH flag enthusiastically-
I think this thread is a bit overzealous, myself. Granted, certain players might be conflicting on points such as these, but a post dedicated to calling the flaws that we are already aware of out seems to be indefinitely pointing a finger. I'm not sure how best to put it in words, but I still feel that it was unnecessary for this to be presented.

Time heals all, to quote the cliche, and demanding a change due haste probably won't make it come faster.
Jason Wrote:I think this thread is a bit overzealous, myself. Granted, certain players might be conflicting on points such as these, but a post dedicated to calling the flaws that we are already aware of out seems to be indefinitely pointing a finger. I'm not sure how best to put it in words, but I still feel that it was unnecessary for this to be presented.

Time heals all, to quote the cliche, and demanding a change due haste probably won't make it come faster.

Shun the nonbeliever! Shunnn.
The point of the post is to provide solutions, not call out flaws.
hiddengecko Wrote:I love you. Please have my babies.


Pretty much sums it up.
Great post! Makes sense in every way, especially with the situations that have been happening lately.
I'm just a newcomer to the server and probably haven't earned the right to really have an opinion.. but thot maybe a view through 'outsiders' eyes might be worth noting.

The fact that you had to actually apply to play on this server is what attracted me in the first place. It led me to believe that the players that would willingly take the time to go through that process would be players that were already creative and committed - the emphasis around creating profiles right down to the grammar and getting the lore and timelines correct was a bonus . To be honest though all that 'rigor' seems to have been forgotten once one 'gets in the doors' and actually tries to get involved or find the roleplay.

From what I can see it's like the players have lost the passion for why this server is here in the first place. Perhaps rather than just rping a mirror of real life, if we voluntarily put restrictions around our own individual roleplay (not expect others to do it first) and keep it within the flavor of what the server is suppose to be, in the flavor of what our character's race and alignment is and in the flavor of what our character's personality is, it would start to revive the authenticity of the server and consequently the passion.

I also think that part of the rigor for getting a profile 'approved' should be for each character to have a storyline included that would generate roleplay .. not just the emphasis on the childhood.. more a look to the future rather than an emphasis on the past... rather than have the character just 'exist', the character should have a reason for being .. have already picked a profession for example. ie.. an alchemist that is hunting for a rare ingredient which could lead to continuing event for that player whether he actually finds it or not, a rogue that knows he's being hunted by a nobleman he had scammed in the past and has to consider that every stranger might be someone hired by the nobleman to get revenge .. i'm sure there are much better ideas but this is just an example.

One other observation is that the autoshouts could be leveraged to contribute to rp atmosphere and reinforce the foundational storyline that's happening.

Just an observation.. definitely not a complaint. :)
Scout, the problem is that, sure, you may make this fancy post, but are people going to do this? Not everybody looks at the forums, not everyone is going to see this post, and not everyone who sees it is going to give a damn. If you want to change something, then you have to tackle it head-on, and you can't just hide behind your eloquent posts. Confront people directly that are disrespecting others, confront people that are whining about Booty Bay. A post won't change anything if nothing is done with it, and, as you said, the players need to try too.
I agree with you on alot of points Scout, especially on one: communication.

Sometimes, it's better to ask someone OOCly before you do something ICly, that would piss off alot of people(OOCly). Like, let's say that Bob wants to kill Mike. Mike likes to reside in a little camp in Westfall, and Bob happens to pass by as he was finishing some quests OOCly, and suddenly spots this opportunity for RP. Bob goes IC, and instead of asking the Mike OOCly if he could shoot him in the face with an arrow, he just quickly hands out a CW in general chat and shoots an arrow towards Mike.

This pisses off Mike, because that was not his plan for his character. If Bob had asked OOCly first, they might would have been able to work an solution, and actually Mike would have the option to decide what's going to happen.

Something I see often also is instead of people -ask- they just warn you. I'd much rather be -asked- if something could happen to my character, instead of someone just -warned- me about it. Ex: Coriv is walking on Alcaz, towards the docks to see if something's going on. Suddenly, an archer is hidden on the top of the hill and announces in general: "Character Warning Coriv. A poisoned arrow might get struck into your shoulder, and make you die in four minutes." Of course, I could avoid this by meta-gaming, and avoiding that passage: But that doesn't really make up the IC reasons why Coriv would choose another path.

Instead, the archer could just whisper me shortly and ask something like: "Hey Coriv, I was thinking that my deadshot X needs Y from Coriv, knowing that he is a powerful man. Is it alright that I could shoot him in the shoulder, and I would eventually kidnap him and cure him - and persuade him? :)"

You see, -asking- someone instead of -warning- them really is annoying. Because, let's say that I had to go to bed right there? That would mean I couldn't participate in the RP. What if I wanted Coriv involved in some sort of plot? Storyline?

Asking someone before you do something is considered way more polite, than just throwing a warning in their face. Because if you want to avoid dying/getting seriously maimed - you HAVE to meta-game. All of these examples are not real, but I believe that they prove my point.
Again, people, lead by example. It's not hard, and it's a lot better then writing out fancy posts that half the server won't see. People don't like admitting that they follow trends, but if something becomes popular, then most people are going to try it out to see.
I do do a lot of the things that I've posted in this thread. The point is that those people who do read this thread might see it and think "huh, that's a good idea." Even if only a few people end up reading it and actually taking it in, it has still made a difference. This post isn't intended to just be a call for change, it's supposed to suggest some possible solutions to our current problems. Although your point is valid, instead of criticizing the fact that I tried to say something, you could try to look at the points I made and apply them to what you do on the server every day.

When people just say that it was pointless to make this post, it makes me feel like they didn't read it properly. I'm providing suggestions, not just mongering points we've heard over and over.
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