(07-03-2011, 05:54 AM)Rigley Wrote: [ -> ] (07-02-2011, 01:06 PM)flammos200 Wrote: [ -> ]...It was fun. It didn't harm anyone. It created RP. It was just flying around. It did not hinder Role-play in any way.
Why, then, was it wrong?
Just to talk about the topic of flight there, I hardly get the idea that one character being able to fly around could create RP.
But as far as the rest of your question goes; there are plenty of things people consider fun and non-intrusive to RP that we shouldn't let them play. The most obvious are things like dragons and other beings similar- Being a dragon in disguise can be fun, and it could definitely create RP, and unless they're attacking people or sommat, that doesn't hinder RP either.
Neither would, say, people playing a robot. But just because it is fun and the like doesn't mean we should have it on CotH. Back to instance of flying, why would anyone want to have a flying mount if they could just kick their heels and shoot into the sky? If they have flight with magic figured out, why do the magi at Dalaran come into the place on flying machines, gryphons, and the like? It may be a fun idea, but it doesn't really fit, basically.
Also I don't think I'd want to see mages drifting around in the air at random. It would just be awkward, with the robes and all.
Quote:It's not used for AWP METAGAEMING RAWR!, but rather it adds another factor into role-play, enhancing it and elevating it rather than turning it down a notch, back to old Tavern Role-play.
As for this, I have some thoughts as well here. Flying or any other gimmick is a neat trick. That's pretty much what it will remain as. People may be interested to see your character floating for the first day, or maybe even the first week, but after that it just blends in with everyone else. Usually in a tavern.
If people want to spice up tavern RP they shouldn't be searching for gimmicks or such to show off around the place, they should be searching for plot- a spontaneous event can do wonders to lift the monotony, and your character doesn't need to be a floating person or a dragon to initiate those.
I hope I'm explaining this well enough. Just because it would be fun to play a space marine doesn't mean we should.
...First off, I only meant lore-plausible, and non-OP things. I never meant robots or dragons or what have you. Especially not things that have nothing to do with the Warcraft universe.
As for flying. It is generally agreed upon that Enchanting an item, especially permanently, is much more difficult and costly than casting a singular spell with the same effect. Thus, wreathing a sword in fire forever is much more difficult and costly than casting a fireball, if you wanted to burn someone.
Moving on, Flight is used by magi in something as complex as permanent enchants in a myriad of ways. From flying brooms and carpets, to Dalaran itself, to the pieces of enormous circular rock spinning around its spires. Let's say that Dalaran is an exception, since it's important and it likely took a lot of magi to do it, right? Even Archmagi. All right...
But take a look at Quel'thalas. Every single shelf floats and rotates and does who-knows-what, flying around like a backwards-brained bumblebee. In addition, even in the most weird and out-of-the-way places, we can find such floaty, flying stuff. From the self-sweeping brooms, to nondescript far-away shelves in forgotten beaches that no elf ever visits anymore.
Basically, if they used magic for something as trivial as keeping books on shelves, it surely did not:
A. Cost a lot of mana or drain the caster severely. Otherwise, no one would bother with such trivial things.
B. Take a lot of casters to do. See point A.
Much of the decoration of Silvermoon floats and flies.
Even Priests floatyfly around. As flying is described as moving forward, backward or to the sides while you're completely in the air, they can fly using levitation. Not very fast(walking/running speed), but they can.
The spells we are given in-game are guidelines rather than the true representation of our characters' powers, or so I've always taken it. It makes no sense to say that a Fire Mage couldn't toss a crescent-shaped blast of fire, when they can throw about fireballs, detonate large blast waves and even create complex forms such as the heads of dragons to breathe fire out of, just because there's no spell with that description in the game.
Slow-fall is what I've always taken as the basis for which magi can fly.
Alternatively, since they can move Frost around, they can just make themselves a big slab of Ice to stand on and move that forward like they're flying on a snowboard(C wut I did thar?).
Or a Mana Shield bubble to keep them in like a hamsterball, while they dive under the ocean, protected from the water by the barrier the spell forms.
The possibilities are limitless.
You spoke of how such 'gimmicks' have no real use? They do in long, organized story-lines. Or even short ones.
Friend stranded on a mountaintop, after a Flying Machine crash? Fly over and grab him. Alternatively, you can teleport over, but that takes -more- energy and time than flight. And since we know mountaintops are cold, the friend may die of exposure by then.
Falling off Outland into the Nether? Fly up back onto the rock.
Enemy Shaman summoning stone spikes out of the ground everywhere? Hover up for a bit, and strike back!
Also, Warriors, last I checked, can use projectile weapons. Thus, crossbows, bows and guns vs flying enemies = Warriors stand a pretty good chance. Equal to that of hitting a moving enemy on the ground, in fact.
...And, what's to hold one from surfing a flying broom all the time? And attacking off it, or casting spells off it? In the hypothetical situation in which a Warrior would be screwed by any flying mage, the result remains the same.
Just my take on it. It's like saying a mage can't make a letter into a paper plane and enchant it to fly to a preset destination. Of course, the weather would impede it, sure, but it would work... We know even Dalaran's mail system is teleport-based. Flying is De-OP-ing that into taking some time. Just like sending it with a carrier pidgeon.
Rather than limit creativity, why not promote it? It's just small things that don't hamper role-play in the least.
EDIT:
(07-03-2011, 04:27 PM)Grakor456 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-03-2011, 06:57 AM)Xigo Wrote: [ -> ]If mages could fly, warriors would be screwed.
Just sayin'.
Pretty much. Flight is a VERY powerful ability, and the ability to move in a third dimension in places where it's normally not possible can really make things...difficult to balance.
That's not to say we can't add other abilities to Runemasters as necessary, same with Necromancers. If we do add Motion abilities, it'd probably be limited to either a mage-like Blink, or saying that they're very effective at climbing or jumping.
...First off, Runemasters can't really teleport to anywhere where they haven't set a sigil. It is basically the equivalent of Scrolls of Recall or Hearthstones. Or a long-range Warlock Demonic Circle.
So, they would not be able to blink forwards, as there is no sigil placed on the ground in front of them.
Climbing and jumping are useful, sure. But pretty much any trained person can do it. So, they gain nothing 'special' for lack of a better word.