(07-30-2011, 12:41 AM)hiddengecko Wrote: [ -> ]Forsaken aren't really like Death Knights, at all. Forsaken are cheap, long-dead disease-manufactured, nearly-mindless zombies who had their minds and souls returned. They aren't immortal, aren't meant to last, and fall apart quickly.
Death Knights are advanced. They were raised from fresh and intact corpses, or just -warm bodies,- and were done individually with powerful magic that appears to fully reanimate them. They don't rot; they are immortal. The ability to sleep is implied--I suspect it's there regardless of them being living or dead, personally--by the book.
You ought not to just filter out lore because "Well, it is silly because it does not agree with my preconceptions, and some books are silly sometimes."
...Quite. I've taken the liberty to bold that little caveat. While that is perfectly true, I wonder at why it is so. Additionally, Forsaken are immortal in body - their bodies won't decay, but their minds -will- wither and rot, leaving them mindless.
(07-29-2011, 10:41 PM)BountyHunter Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Can they be knocked unconscious? How?
There are abilities which cause Undead to become 'Unconscious', meaning, they are rendered immobile and are more or less lacking consciousness for a small period of time. Also, if severe physical damage is caused, an Undead's willpower might lessen to the extent that they can possibly simply lose consciousness.
Quote:Can they sleep? How?
Closing their eyes and more or less pretending to sleep. Some Undead still alike to hang onto the strings of their former life so it isn't impossible for some to still wish to sleep, maybe trying to reach out and grasp at a dream or two if possible.
Hmm. See, this brings up -extremely- interesting points of view. I would hazard to say that an Undead's consciousness -is- their life. At least, so long as they are tied to a physical body and not an Ascended being.
...I doubt undead heal naturally, as dead cells cannot produce living cells to repair their forms, therefore, they literally should not be able to regain consciousness once they've lost it. Unless treated with an amount of healing magic.
Now, why would they lose consciousness under severe damage? Why would their willpower lessen? They can't feel pain, so that's not distracting them from the single-minded goal of disemboweling their enemies... See: Skeletons, Frost Wyrms, Bone Giants.
As for mimicking sleep, yeah, that's true. We know for a fact that a number of Forsaken cling dearly to what they used to be in life, hence why some practice Light. But they wouldn't -really- be sleeping, would they? Just faking it, I mean...
(07-29-2011, 10:53 PM)Grakor456 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-29-2011, 10:33 PM)flammos200 Wrote: [ -> ]Can they be knocked unconscious? How?
We know for a fact that Undead don't have a working metabolism, thus, no real working nerves - they're really animated corpses with a spirit that puppets them, so you shouldn't be able to stop them unless you dismantle them. And even so, I would suspect an undead head to keep chattering at you. Unless blasted by an amount of Holy Light, incinerated or otherwise bound by supernatural means.
Undead, particularly Forsaken and DKs, still require their brains. Also, in WoW Undead are not immune to stuns, dazes, disorients, or other similar effects of a physical nature, so we can assume that because they still need their brains, that can get messed with.
The general way I interpret undead "unconsciousness" is immobility. If I'm playing Balgarn and he gets knocked to 0 HP in a non-lethal event, he simply goes immobile and his body shuts down. Either way, attempting to look at this too scientifically is going to fail, because undead are not scientific creations.
Quote:Can they sleep? How?
We know for a fact that Undead never tire. It's really what made the Lich King's armies so feared, as they could work day and night, single-mindedly without stopping for breathers. Therefore, they shouldn't need sleep - or be able to sleep. Why give them such a detrimental attribute, if you're in essence just building an army by raising Undead? Napping soldiers = dead soldiers.
Remember, Forsaken and DKs still need their brains (we know this because Forsaken "death" by old age is brain rot.) Their bodies may not ever tire, but nothing says their minds do not. They may, or may not, require a certain amount of rest, depending on how one chooses to interpret Forsaken lore. Plus, nothing stops them from being lazy and pretending.
Also, see Binkle's post.
...Well, I could say that them still not being immune to such would be mere game mechanics - a question of balance, but... Forsaken can surely be as skeletal as Skeletons, Bone Giants, Liches, Frost Wyrms, etc. no? I recall a couple of our own server DKs getting shot in the head and surviving, or cleaved in the face with an Abomination's Cleaver...
As for the latter, I suppose it would make sense if one's memory and workload were limited to the brain specifically, since our little bio-computer can only work so fast and store so much information, but what of Forsaken that've Ascended, or bone wraiths/giants, Abominations, Skeletons and the like? They obviously don't use their brains...
Also, is there any specific mention as to the fact that Death Knights use their brains? Just curious.
Furthermore, an Undead being fully immobilized -does- make perfect sense, due to how otherwise they would just keep whacking away at you. Even more so if holy magic is at play. Now, how one does that is another matter altogether - I suspect that if you enchained them, they'd struggle, and if you buried them, they'd try to dig their way out.
Thanks for the answers thus far. They've been enlightening.
One more question: To what degree is an undead being - therefore not using their muscles to power their movements - physically stronger than the average mortal?