08-23-2011, 03:47 PM
So, with the restart looming (perhaps closer than some may think, I'll hopefully make an official announcement soon, barring complications) and the imminent destruction of the prestige system at hand, I think it's time to put forth the ideas of what we are thinking will be possibilities for post-restart, as in what we may or may not be doing, and putting up a poll to gauge interest in one thing or another.
So, here's a quick summation of what we're intending, right now:
I know a lot of people are going to hate the dreaded wand of the retcon, though in some cases it will be inevitable as a result of the scaling back of the power of the titles. While we haven't drafted an official list, there's essentially four categories of prestiges, in my mind:
X, but MORE! prestiges: Archdruid, Archmage, High Divinist, etc. Prestiges that are just a flat improvement to a base class by their very nature. These are getting nixed entirely.
Custom Model prestiges: Burning Legionnaire, Diabolist, etc. Prestiges whose main draw is the change in character model. These will most likely be handled through custom model submissions in the future. As a note, we'll be much more reserved when it comes to fel mutations in the future, mostly to better keep with the lore and to ensure that we don't get really unusual character model switches.
Redundant prestiges: Spiritwalker, Whisper Blade, Myrmidon, etc. Prestiges whose iconic abilities are mostly already incorporated within the base classes of WoW without much branching out, but whose titles don't necessarily imply greater power over their peers. These most likely will simply be freely rollable, regardless of what system (or not) we put into place, as they're really just fancy names for the base classes that already exist.
Hybrid or Unique prestiges: Demon Hunter, Priestess of the Moon, etc. Prestiges that aren't redundant with the base classes, often themselves being multi-class hybrids or tacking on strange or unique abilities to existing classes. These are the ones that are mostly in question, here.
So, an idea has been kicked around the GM boards for another system. A system that would allow people to play characters outside of the norm of the base classes, but without the baggage that every iteration of the prestige system carried with it. Any new system would have to fill certain goals:
1. Eliminate roll bonuses. As roll bonuses can often be seen as a way to muscle people out of RP, we deemed them not a good idea. This is one of the reasons for the rename from "Prestige", as we don't want people to think of variants as better, just different.
2. Eliminate full character skill-set swaps. I am not a fan of base classes that are not real base classes.
3. Provide a means of customizing or providing character progression for characters in a way that the rigid, inflexible prestige systems of the past could not do. All prestige systems were strapped to rigid class titles, and as a result did little for making an individual character *special.* In addition, this poses the other reason for the rename from "prestige", as I want to move away from the titles present in the d20.
4. Despite #3, also provide a means to restrict the number of people going for rigid class titles that are nonetheless popular. In particular, I am looking at things like Demon Hunter.
5. Provide a system that encourages character development, as opposed to a system that encourages power grabbing.
This is harder than it sounds.
The idea, therefore, is to create a more free-form system. An application would be someone putting forth the idea of what they want their character to do. To illustrate the idea, I think it's best to show through example, so I'll use my character Thragash.
Let's say I want to have Thragash be a warrior similar to the old Bone Crusher prestige, while also possessing magic runes tattooed to his body that makes him stronger. This gives me a firm basis of where I want to take the character, and provides the spark of what would make Thragash different enough to require an application: he has magic runes, even if they're a completely passive thing. So, with that idea put forth, I then decide on what weaknesses I think Thragash should have to accompany these strengths, in order to balance the variant out. Some of these are obvious: because Thragash is so big and hulking, he's slow and unstealthy. Also, he eats a ton. Thragash may physically be a beast, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great fighter, as he'll be slow and not necessarily skilled. To further balance him out, we'll say that he's only good at the use of fist weapons and leather armor.
So, here's an example of what the application might be (the form may also require more information, such as first storyline post, etc., but this should give an idea):
(Note: This isn't necessarily the direction I'll take Thragash post-restart, it's just an example.)
Now, this system comes with its own problems. For one, people have been making variations without the prestige system for a long time...battle-mages come to mind immediately. For two, what is the line of a variation that is fine to roll without an application, and what is not and requires effort put into?
Likely, this system would also require effort put into it, though not as much, as the result isn't quite as rewarding. There would likely be multiple avenues to pursue, either through forum posts or the running of in-game events.
The line that we have decided is probably the best, as far as what would require an application and what would not, would be the line when it comes to a character learning abilities noticably atypical to their class. Thragash above, for example, has magic runes on his person. A mage who wanted to be able to fight well with a sword would require one. A priest who also wants to be good with a bow. A mage who wanted to dabble in necromancy at the cost of one of his other schools of magic. So on, so forth.
The other option is no system at all. While this seems confining, it really isn't as confining as it sounds, as we intend (rather, at least I intend) on being a little more lax with what normal characters are able to do. This is a roleplaying server and a little bit of creativity should be encouraged, as long as that creativity doesn't broach into the realm of the silly or completely shatter WoW's class dynamics.
The biggest loss here is essentially just that we wouldn't be letting people play Demon Hunters again, and other of the past titles that are noticeably problematic if seen in large numbers and don't fit with the base classes well.
This does also mean, however, that some of the things that we'd more closely restrict in the above system likely wouldn't be as restricted if we had nothing at all.
I've rambled too much right now. Let the comments and votes come.
So, here's a quick summation of what we're intending, right now:
Prestige Titles
I know a lot of people are going to hate the dreaded wand of the retcon, though in some cases it will be inevitable as a result of the scaling back of the power of the titles. While we haven't drafted an official list, there's essentially four categories of prestiges, in my mind:
X, but MORE! prestiges: Archdruid, Archmage, High Divinist, etc. Prestiges that are just a flat improvement to a base class by their very nature. These are getting nixed entirely.
Custom Model prestiges: Burning Legionnaire, Diabolist, etc. Prestiges whose main draw is the change in character model. These will most likely be handled through custom model submissions in the future. As a note, we'll be much more reserved when it comes to fel mutations in the future, mostly to better keep with the lore and to ensure that we don't get really unusual character model switches.
Redundant prestiges: Spiritwalker, Whisper Blade, Myrmidon, etc. Prestiges whose iconic abilities are mostly already incorporated within the base classes of WoW without much branching out, but whose titles don't necessarily imply greater power over their peers. These most likely will simply be freely rollable, regardless of what system (or not) we put into place, as they're really just fancy names for the base classes that already exist.
Hybrid or Unique prestiges: Demon Hunter, Priestess of the Moon, etc. Prestiges that aren't redundant with the base classes, often themselves being multi-class hybrids or tacking on strange or unique abilities to existing classes. These are the ones that are mostly in question, here.
The Variant System
So, an idea has been kicked around the GM boards for another system. A system that would allow people to play characters outside of the norm of the base classes, but without the baggage that every iteration of the prestige system carried with it. Any new system would have to fill certain goals:
1. Eliminate roll bonuses. As roll bonuses can often be seen as a way to muscle people out of RP, we deemed them not a good idea. This is one of the reasons for the rename from "Prestige", as we don't want people to think of variants as better, just different.
2. Eliminate full character skill-set swaps. I am not a fan of base classes that are not real base classes.
3. Provide a means of customizing or providing character progression for characters in a way that the rigid, inflexible prestige systems of the past could not do. All prestige systems were strapped to rigid class titles, and as a result did little for making an individual character *special.* In addition, this poses the other reason for the rename from "prestige", as I want to move away from the titles present in the d20.
4. Despite #3, also provide a means to restrict the number of people going for rigid class titles that are nonetheless popular. In particular, I am looking at things like Demon Hunter.
5. Provide a system that encourages character development, as opposed to a system that encourages power grabbing.
This is harder than it sounds.
The idea, therefore, is to create a more free-form system. An application would be someone putting forth the idea of what they want their character to do. To illustrate the idea, I think it's best to show through example, so I'll use my character Thragash.
Let's say I want to have Thragash be a warrior similar to the old Bone Crusher prestige, while also possessing magic runes tattooed to his body that makes him stronger. This gives me a firm basis of where I want to take the character, and provides the spark of what would make Thragash different enough to require an application: he has magic runes, even if they're a completely passive thing. So, with that idea put forth, I then decide on what weaknesses I think Thragash should have to accompany these strengths, in order to balance the variant out. Some of these are obvious: because Thragash is so big and hulking, he's slow and unstealthy. Also, he eats a ton. Thragash may physically be a beast, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a great fighter, as he'll be slow and not necessarily skilled. To further balance him out, we'll say that he's only good at the use of fist weapons and leather armor.
So, here's an example of what the application might be (the form may also require more information, such as first storyline post, etc., but this should give an idea):
Spoiler:
Character: Thragash
Class: Warrior
Desired Title: None
Variant Description: Thragash went through a long trial and training to acquire runes that now adorn his body. These runes provide him with additional physical strength, and combine with his gluttonous appetite and intense work-out routine to make him a giant, living wall of orcish muscle that focuses on fighting with his body itself. Unfortunately, the result has also left him rather slow and with his own set of weaknesses.
Strengths:
Great Strength - Thragash's sheer muscular size, in addition to the runes on his body, make him very strong and capable of defeating many others in tests of sheer physical might.
Toughness - Thragash's runes also provide him with tougher skin, allowing him to fight in light armor and skill be decently protected.
Grappler - Focusing almost entirely on unarmed combat, Thragash is an expert at grapples and submission holds. As a result, he's able to grapple, pin, or put a hold on something that others may find too large or too strong to do so to.
Weaknesses:
Brawler - Due to his training being highly specialized, Thragash is only skilled in the use of unarmed attacks and fist weapons, and is greatly hampered whenever wearing anything heavier than leather armor.
Bulky - The sheer size of his musculature causes Thragash to be both slow and easy to hit. As a result, he has a difficult time dodging attacks, and instead relies on parrying or tanking through them.
Loud - Due to his sheer size and lack of coordination, Thragash is very easy to spot and is one of the least stealthy people you'll ever meet.
Hungry - With his high metabolism, Thragash is always eating. He requires nearly double the amount of food to sustain himself as another in order to be comfortable, and if he goes without enough food for more than a day, he becomes both irrational and more prone to falling into a blood rage when angered.
Class: Warrior
Desired Title: None
Variant Description: Thragash went through a long trial and training to acquire runes that now adorn his body. These runes provide him with additional physical strength, and combine with his gluttonous appetite and intense work-out routine to make him a giant, living wall of orcish muscle that focuses on fighting with his body itself. Unfortunately, the result has also left him rather slow and with his own set of weaknesses.
Strengths:
Great Strength - Thragash's sheer muscular size, in addition to the runes on his body, make him very strong and capable of defeating many others in tests of sheer physical might.
Toughness - Thragash's runes also provide him with tougher skin, allowing him to fight in light armor and skill be decently protected.
Grappler - Focusing almost entirely on unarmed combat, Thragash is an expert at grapples and submission holds. As a result, he's able to grapple, pin, or put a hold on something that others may find too large or too strong to do so to.
Weaknesses:
Brawler - Due to his training being highly specialized, Thragash is only skilled in the use of unarmed attacks and fist weapons, and is greatly hampered whenever wearing anything heavier than leather armor.
Bulky - The sheer size of his musculature causes Thragash to be both slow and easy to hit. As a result, he has a difficult time dodging attacks, and instead relies on parrying or tanking through them.
Loud - Due to his sheer size and lack of coordination, Thragash is very easy to spot and is one of the least stealthy people you'll ever meet.
Hungry - With his high metabolism, Thragash is always eating. He requires nearly double the amount of food to sustain himself as another in order to be comfortable, and if he goes without enough food for more than a day, he becomes both irrational and more prone to falling into a blood rage when angered.
(Note: This isn't necessarily the direction I'll take Thragash post-restart, it's just an example.)
Now, this system comes with its own problems. For one, people have been making variations without the prestige system for a long time...battle-mages come to mind immediately. For two, what is the line of a variation that is fine to roll without an application, and what is not and requires effort put into?
Likely, this system would also require effort put into it, though not as much, as the result isn't quite as rewarding. There would likely be multiple avenues to pursue, either through forum posts or the running of in-game events.
The line that we have decided is probably the best, as far as what would require an application and what would not, would be the line when it comes to a character learning abilities noticably atypical to their class. Thragash above, for example, has magic runes on his person. A mage who wanted to be able to fight well with a sword would require one. A priest who also wants to be good with a bow. A mage who wanted to dabble in necromancy at the cost of one of his other schools of magic. So on, so forth.
The Other Option
The other option is no system at all. While this seems confining, it really isn't as confining as it sounds, as we intend (rather, at least I intend) on being a little more lax with what normal characters are able to do. This is a roleplaying server and a little bit of creativity should be encouraged, as long as that creativity doesn't broach into the realm of the silly or completely shatter WoW's class dynamics.
The biggest loss here is essentially just that we wouldn't be letting people play Demon Hunters again, and other of the past titles that are noticeably problematic if seen in large numbers and don't fit with the base classes well.
This does also mean, however, that some of the things that we'd more closely restrict in the above system likely wouldn't be as restricted if we had nothing at all.
I've rambled too much right now. Let the comments and votes come.