(06-25-2012, 01:55 PM)Zarquon Wrote: [ -> ]Words
For the most part, Zar, the evidence in your argument is pretty much in support of Arcane-only Necromancers.
Quote:Practitioners of the orcish religions, these binders of souls command the black powers that hold control over the earth. Linked into the dominions of the lower planes, necrolytes have power over all things dark and evil, including the raising of fallen warriors to create armies of the undead. Through ceremonies performed at their Temples, they learn to warp the essence of shadow to use for their advantage.
Just as an aside before I dig into this: You have to understand that this lore is drawn from the Warcraft games, specifically the
very first one. While the lore in those games is still canon, you will have to take much of what they say with a grain of salt, since elements were bent to explain game mechanic or written to be grandiose and impressive.
In this case, the words 'ceremonies' and 'temple' shouldn't be taken to assume organized religion or faith.
Quote:During the First War, the main purpose of the necrolytes was to bolster the orcish forces with undead troops, similar to the necromancers of the Scourge decades later. While Necrolytes did possess other magical abilities, they were quite paltry when compared to those of the other orcish warlocks.
This actually is more in favor of Necrolytes being lesser warlocks than anything else. Even says they have similarities to Warlock. And yes, while they can other abilities of the class they originated from...Well, we'll touch that later.
Quote:The origin of modern necromancers dates back to the First War, when Gul'dan's necrolytes developed the ability to raise corpses to serve as skeleton warriors for the Horde. However, necromancy itself seems to have originated with the demonic Nathrezim race of the Burning Legion, who were the first known beings to raise undead creatures from Night Elven corpses (as seen in the War of the Ancients novel).
I'll be honest, this quote and your follow-up argument confused me. Nathrezim have no religion and draw their power from the Twisting Nether, a font of corrupt Arcane that we call Fel. They would not be able to teach faith even if they wanted to.
In the end, your argument boils down to the Necrolytes being the mortal fathers of Necromancer and claiming that the Necrolytes are Faith-based priests who wield religious powers.
While it is possible that they can have other skills (Shamanism being the most likely) it is very unlikely that orcs -the harbingers of Necromancer- would be using faith-based magic. Why? Because that's not how the orc's faith works. And it never has.
Each race draws power from what they worship. Orc religion is based on worship of the ancestor spirits and the earth. The human religion, and the religion of many other races, worship the Light/Shadow. Humans gain power from the Light and become priests. Orcs gain power from the earth and spirits and can become shaman or Spirit Walkers.
There is a reason why Orcs, over four consecutive expansions, have managed to gain every class -besides- Priest, Paladin and Druid: They don't Worship the Light or Shadow and never have.
If all Necromancers can trace their ancestry down to the Necrolytes, and the Necrolytes are from a race who has no history of every having a priesthood based on Light/Shadow, it's rather logical to say that Necromancy was never faith-based to begin with.
Quote:Troll Voodoo
Ah, now this is an interesting one. Trolls worship a faith completely seperate from the Light/Shadow that most races enjoy...The Loa.
The Loa is a complex thing that I myself don't fully understand. All I shall say to this is that it is the closest a priest will ever get to being a Necromancer through the manipulation of spirits. And even then, because of fairness sake, we will lump them in with the others to avoid confusion.
Quote:Auchenai
You won't escape this either, Sol!
When I was creating my Auchenai Necromancer, I created her first as a priest. I thought it was logical, just like some of the proponents here for Necromancer Priests do.
When Krilari informed me of the rule I reacted with stubborn resignation. It didn't seem logical! Not one bit!
But after doing some research, the Auchenai prove the rule just as much as the Necrolytes do.
Let's look at the denizens that
make up the Auchenai sect.
Before their corruption, the Auchenai priesthood's job was to calm the spirits and ease them into the next stage of life. Those are what the
Soulpriests were adept at.
After their corruption, however, they began to meddle and corrupt the spirits, altering them to fit their will. They tortured the undead, creating
enslaved spirits and
angered skeletons to do their bidding.
That is something unique to the Auchenai, however, and is a secret known only to their members.
Now, many people point to the
Auchenai Necromancers as support for priest Necromancers. And in the process they forget that the Auchenai Necromancers' arsenal of abilities are
all Warlock spells.
So, to summarize for all you lazy people: The only priests that would logically be allowed to play Necromancers are Troll Voodoo practitioners and Draenei Soulpriests. And even then they are restricted by what they can do (Only torture spirits) and what races can play them, which is paltry compared to the generous arsenal of corruption, perversion and manipulation allowed Arcane Necromancers.
If you want to argue a variant called Soul Priest, be my guest. That's a separate matter that I won't weigh in on. But Necromancers should be left to the Mages.
EDIT: Just to give a personal opinion, I would not like to see a Soul Priest variant exist. It wanders into the realm of fanon, and when you wander into the realm of fanon you are in dangerous and silly waters.