A Question on Transmutation

[Rosencrat]

Transmutation...It is an art all to itself. An art that World of Warcraft touches little upon.

The only information I could find on it was gleamed was from wowpedia.org (Oh, Wowwiki, where would we be without it?) and what I got was shockingly minimal.

Transmutation is a sub-skill of Alchemy. It is highly valued since it allows the transmutation of some metals into more valuable ones, and transmutation of some elemental items into harder to find ones.

All transmutations are on a shared cooldown of 20 hours, except Transmute: Arcanite, Transmute: Elemental Fire, Transmute: Primal Might, and Meta Gem transmutes, which have no cooldown. All transmutations require the alchemist to have a [Philosopher's Stone] or any of the variants of the [Alchemist's Stone] equipped or in his inventory.

How much of the above is game mechanics and how much is IC truth? Does it take long periods of time between transmutations, relatively short periods or not very long periods at all?

Transmutations are but the art of using Arcane energy to break down an object and rebuild it in a different shape...A skill that most mages use at least halfway in their summoning of foods and beverages. If one would have but a good skill and mana endurance in the art wouldn't one be capable of doing at least a few transmutations quickly before become exhausted?

I ask because I am attempting to create an All-Enclusive Alchemy Guide/A character of mine teaches Transmutation in the Sparkspin Academy.

What doe you say, CotH?

[Piroska]

The cooldown timers are in-game mechanics that are in place to limit the amount of items are can be produced and on the market at a single time. As new content comes out, these restrictions are lifted in subsequent patches (much like what they did with tailoring cooldowns).

From an in-character stand point, there would have to be similar (but not exactly the same) restrictions in place. Otherwise we'd be running into people who claimed that they could transmute things on a regular basis without regard to the efforts they must expend and the time it would take. I'm prone to leaving it up to the discretion of the individual rather than codifying it; we already have reasonable expectations of the community in regards to other abilities.

In other words, if it seems reasonable I'd believe it probably is. And very interesting idea to pursue!

[Bovel]

I would like to believe that the game mechanic reflects that transmutation take time, ALOT of time.

[Piroska]

Except, as I noted, these restrictions have been removed as the game progresses. Transmute: Arcanite used to have a twenty-three hour cooldown, but this was removed in Patch 2.4.0. Transmute: Primal Might used to have a twenty hour cooldown, but this was removed in Patch 3.0.2 (along with Transmute: Earthstorm Diamond, Transute: Skyfire Diamond, and various other transmutes). However, transmutes like Mithril to Truesilver and Iron to Gold still retain their twenty hour cooldown.

This doesn't mean that I don't believe that transmutation takes either effort or time; however, I do point these out to emphasize that the amount of time may be a game mechanic intended to keep a cap on how many of a certain item can be produced at a single time. Many of the items created through transmutation were used in creating end-game gear and it's my supposition that the developers wanted to limit how quickly and easily players could acquire said gear. These restrictions are unnecessary on a server like Conquest of the Horde, since the intention here is roleplaying not the downing of the next baddie in dungeons.

As I postulated before, if reasonable restrictions were placed on characters then I would assume that this would be fine. Basing your decision entirely on in-game mechanics that probably were intended to limit gear creation and not reflective of the universe might be a little hasty, though they do provide some guidance. Perhaps the optimal solution is to come up with concrete examples, Rosencrat, and then share them with the community.

[Rosencrat]

Except, as I noted, these restrictions have been removed as the game progresses. Transmute: Arcanite used to have a twenty-three hour cooldown, but this was removed in Patch 2.4.0. Transmute: Primal Might used to have a twenty hour cooldown, but this was removed in Patch 3.0.2 (along with Transmute: Earthstorm Diamond, Transute: Skyfire Diamond, and various other transmutes).

I agree. Far to many things in WoW (From language to armor to class restrictions) are simply game mechanics. Considering the high-value nature of this profession branch Transmutation's long OOC cooldown is obvious. Yet IC I thing it is a much shorter (if even existent) 'cooldown'.

Perhaps the optimal solution is to come up with concrete examples, Rosencrat, and then share them with the community.

I don't think we need to go that far. I'm looking simply for a general outline of the cooldown and abilities of Transmutation.

The more I look into it and think it over the more it seems that it can follow the general 'Spellcaster' rule; mana, or 'magical endurance', is expended in the act of Transmutation. The more energy you need to expend to Transmute something (little energy to turn a few pebbles into a larger pebble and a large quantity of energy to turn a tank into a statue) the more magical endurance you burn up. A lesser mage can only do a few transmutations before exhaustion sets in and a major mage can do a few larger-scale changes before a similar fate befalls them.

Now a new question: How long does a Transmutation take? Is it instantaneous or does it take a few seconds? Is the size a variable or are all transmutations analogous.

I do hate interesting things with little information.

[Bovel]

I think what is most important is that it does not become Fullmetal Alchemist. Transmutation must have grand limits such as time consumsing, the requirement of a lab and huge amounts of materials and catalysts.

[Rosencrat]

I'd still like a GM to have final say on this.

[Darkneon]

In a sense of realism, the root of alchemy is using chemicals to manipulate elements and compounds. Transmutation, by definition, is breaking down the chemical structure of one element and adding/subtracting/reorganizing (and therefor, tamper with powerful universal nuclear forces) it through different processes into another element. Like adding sulfur to water will create an acid. So, yes, in some sense - any transmutation (without the use of magic, of course) would take quite a while, depending on the elements you are working with ( the factors under which they should be stored/worked with, and the time it takes for an element to corrode). Without Magic, transmutation would probably be impossible. Being that many Alchemists in our time have attempted to convert something as useless as coal or lead into magnificent gold, create an "elixir of longevity", and achieve ultimate wisdom - all unsuccessfully.

Alchemy itself derives from Greek, meaning "the transmutation of metals", so it can be assumed that Alchemists of the time had striven for something that they never achieved. Though, through their experiments we gained a myriad sum of new information that made it possible to progress into the next stage of Science. It wasn't until 1919 that Ernest Rutherford was able to convert nitrogen into oxygen using artificial disintegration (nuclear transmutation).

As mentioned earlier, as well, doing it the good old fashioned way would require a lot of unavailable and expensive equipment as well as vast amounts of catalysts containing the information needed to even begin forming a testable hypothesis.
If anything, to gain this fund and knowledge would require the banding of many intelligent and capable alchemists (such as the Royal Apothecary Society) and a very large amount of time. Alchemy didn't just pop out of the blue, it's just another tech level in the tree of science. It's roots go all the way to the forming of civilizations, when people worshiped the sun and the times of Aristotle.

Right now, the scientific knowledge in World of Warcraft would be considered at the level of the Dark Ages in the history of Earth and is very blurry in the lore. Nobody probably even knows what cardiac arrest is or that there's even a such thing as cells. Medicine is still in a very crude state leaving Magic mostly responsible for long-life spans. Though, it's a bit odd considering how advanced WoW's engineering has become

It won't be long before a crude microscope is invented and the entire ideology and beliefs of Alchemy and Religion are truly tested.

Sorry if I ramble, but it's a very neat point to consider, and may assist in your future alchemical endeavors. Personally, I think we should have a much tighter grip on what Alchemists are even capable of in WoW. Though, when you add magic into the equation, you can never be sure of anything. Therefor, I suppose we should allow the GMs a final verdict, though I ask the community to further expand on this topic to allow Alchemy to play a more solidified role in our lore.

Edit: Expanded some information regarding Alchemy.

[Rosencrat]

Without magic this is all true. For example...Consider the Factory Made Diamond.

Used in industrial sand paper and cutting edges, the Man-Made Diamond is crafted with nothing more then pure carbon and massive amounts of pressure and heat applied through the use of specialized equipment.

Force + Equipment + Element A = Element B

The only way to change Element A (Carbon) to Element B (Diamonds) is the application of force that is channeled using specialized equipment. This is Transmutation in the real world.

Magic is the 'Heat' and 'Pressure' of the WoW world. It is through the application of magical energy that allows a trained Transmutationist to convert Element A to Element B. The 'equipment' that allows this energy to be applied carefully and accurately to Element A to transform it to Element B is the Alchemist/Philosopher's Stone.

Who knows what magical properties it has, but what is known is that it is a necessity for Transmutations.

[Darkneon]

Very good point, and I added more in my earlier post.

However, you must consider the properties of carbon and how it reacts in certain conditions. It is one the basic element of most living organisms. If we tried to pressurize and heat plutonium. . . we'll if you know science you'll understand why you just sacrificed your laboratory to an explosion equivalent to 20,000 tons of TNT.

In all root, magic acts as a simple tool of unexplainable power that bypasses the time, technology, and resources available to Azeroth and is a formidable factor to technologies we, on Earth, haven't even began thinking of.

Still, I believe that magic is a device of manipulation that can sometimes bend the common rules of the universe (arguable). I do not know if the WoW universe follows the principle that matter cannot be created or destroyed, simply converted. So it's hard to form a response.

Though to continue on my point, basic elements such as oxygen, nitrogen, hydrogen, carbon, phosphorous, and sulfur undergo chemical reactions all the time. This allows them to be manipulated freely at almost no consequence. However, when you start to get into the heavier and more complex elements and compounds, that's when you can get into some serious trouble. It's a point to say that magic is still under the rules of the universe. Conjuring a drink is still subject to gravity as a fireball must adhere to wind pressure and velocity.

That's what makes metals not transmutable. They, in themselves, are elements and contain much more complex chemical structures than the simple elements we've been alluding to. Tampering with them could yield extreme consequences or may just not do anything at all. I believe this is what frustrated Alchemists the most. Though, this point rests solely on where magic stands in the world of the Titans.

Edit: Also, I would like to add the process of pressurizing carbon into diamond is a natural process. Therefor, by heating and pressurizing carbon to create man-made diamonds is simply a way of speeding up time, essentially. However, turning lead to gold and such is not a naturally occurring event of the universe (within the bounds and knowledge of the Milkyway Galaxy of course. Who knows what's going on, on the opposite side of the Universe?)

oh, and the alchemist's/philosopher's stone was one of those things Alchemist's never achieved, either.

[Harmonic]

Eh, final word? Transmutation is a process that takes a long while, and can't be like "Poof, I just made something from nothing! Woo!" Like anything that's true of IC conquests, the more time it takes to ICly learn, and create -anything-, the more sense that'd make.

[Darkneon]

Eh, not really the answer I was hoping for.
I was more hoping to see where the CotH staff stands on whether or not transmutation is achievable at all, now that you throw magic into the equation. I'd be a irritated to discover the creators of WoW Lore simply tossed Alchemy into Azeroth without any further consideration. Alchemy is a controversial topic of lore that I really take seriously, regardless of how silly it may seem.

[Rosencrat]

Just a few small follow ups to that. I'm sorry I have to be specific, but it's for a rather specific guide.

How long is long? A few minutes? An Hour? Could it be considered, in combat sense, a 'skip turn' spell or is it so long that its use in combat is impractical?

Do they need to be in direct contact with the elements or can it be activated and left to its own devices while the change happens? Is it a channeled range spell or direct contact spell?

Does it drain mana or incur any other physical/mental anguish upon the caster?

What knowledge do you have on the workings of the Alchemist/Philosopher's Stone?

We can keep this to PM or post it below.

EDIT- *Singsong* Post 123, Was Easy as ABC...123...ABC!

[Darkneon]

I'd like to request that both sides of the argument are taken into consideration before a GM makes a final decision. Also, that much more thought and deliberation be put into the subject on the grounds that Alchemy is a Science and is capable of changing future lore just as Magic and Engineering are.

Personally, I don't like any Science, Religion, or other universal force to be taken for granted anywhere at all. Online or not, real or not. Because in my definition, role playing it itself is a style of art. Of course, all fine arts are fun, but they come with a certain amount of respect and responsibility.

It doesn't really matter to me what the limits of Alchemy are in WoW, or what will be allowed and impossible, but merely that CotH defines it beyond the simple drop of a hat. 'Sides, I'd think it'd be great if we were able to transmute metals with magic. It'd make some very interesting roleplay, but as long as it has guidelines and limits. Though, there's always a part of us that strives to put everything into a realistic perspective of control, or at least hit on it as close as possible.

Edit: I also understand that the point of this may seem useless. Though, I'd like to point out that many people role-play Alchemists just as people role-play warlocks and paladins. Yet, the latter has been given very clear rules of operation by both WoW and CotH for the sake of the entire community.