The Demon Hunter

[Spiralin]

Okay, this thread I'm going to make is going to be a respectful, maybe rant, and or question towards, Kretol. Recently my main character, Keloi, found out their's a night elf demon hunter wandering the plains of Azeroth/Outland. Now thinking of this, my character for one thinks of Illidan, he fears that there would be another Sundering or all the evil problems Illidan caused. As would many other night elves, finding out there's another demon hunter they'd all be afraid. So my question is basically, if there was another demon hunter icly. I see it fit that icly, my guy would probably do all he could, to tell Tyrande Whisperwind that there is in fact another demon hunter. I know we can't communicate to lore figures, but I see that icly there'd be no way, a night elf that's loyal to the Kal'dorei as a race. Would go about acting like there's no demon hunter. So maybe there's a way my man tells someone, then they say something, and onward it eventually reaches Tyrande. Now I like to think how the society would react to this. One, obviously they'd be afraid cause of the reputation Illidan gave to them. Two, Illidan was prisoned for ten thousand years, then he was freed cause Tyrande thought he could help. Sadly he proved her theory wrong and once again the reputation grew worse. Eventually since he saved Tyrande, it's not like Furion forgave him, he banished him. If ever to return again, he'd be killed/put in prison. I think the demon hunter prestige is a large one and this will cause problems, icly it would be right for Keloi, to get the information to Tyrande as fast as possible. Then the night elves as a whole I would think would probably send out forcements to either hunt him down, or people who are helping him. I won't say names but I do know of others that he's aiding, or they're aiding him. Whatever it was, I would think the night elves as a race would be very displeased. So I've come to the conclusion of asking here for the right to get the information to Tyrande, which would in turn, Tyrande or the night elves as a race would take rather drastic action, and want the demon hunter, gone and/or caught.

I don't mind if people reply, just try to keep it nice and have explanations behind it. I'm not trying to bash on our server's Demon Hunter, just I see it fit that this is what would happen, icly.

[Tarne]

Truth is there are quite a few Demon Hunters, they just keep a low profile to fellow Elves. I would highly doubt Tyrande would want to create a hunt on a Demon Hunter unless there was urgent reason to (if he got as powerful as Illidan, or buiolt an army, ect). When you think of a Demon Hunter in Nelf society, think of Warlocks in orc society. They are highly despised, but have the ability to be tolerated. Not saying a Demon Hunter should walk around Darnassus without problems, but it's essentially the same thing.

EDIT: You also have to remember Illidan had the skull and twin blades. He was a bit higher caliber than just an average DH.)

[aroes]

Here's just some stuff from wowwiki that might help. Seems to me that from these, demon hunters are merely exiles and not hunted down and killed on sight.

Describes general attitude.

Spoiler:

Night elf society shuns demon hunters. Most night elves don't understand the noble sacrifice that demon hunters make; therefore, they make another sacrifice: to be outcasts from their society. Other cultures share the night elves' distrust of demon hunters, and the shadowy individuals are not welcome in cities throughout the Alliance or Horde-controlled lands. Citizens and soldiers may allow a demon hunter to stay at an inn or take a brief rest at a tavern, but they watch them warily and breathe sighs of relief when they leave.

Shows that there are quite a few demon hunters.

Spoiler:

The tradition of the demon hunter arises from night elf history, and almost all demon hunters are night elves. A few blood elves make the pledge as well, seeking revenge for the destruction of their home.

From this page: http://www.wowpedia.org/Demon_hunter

[Piroska]

I'm writing this with the impression that you have not spoken to Knock, who plays this character. If this is substantially wrong, please disregard what I say.

My concern is this: your efforts will potentially stifle the roleplay of a fellow Conquest of the Horde member. One that has spent a considerable amount of time and effort in acquiring a fairly difficult prestige class that has had to undergo approval from the staff at every step of the process. From what I can see, you haven't intended to create or stimulate roleplay for him but rather entirely snuff it out.

If you'd spoken to him, this would be substantially different. You could be looking for a way to grow, develop, and otherwise stimulate new roleplay for Fala'thorei by working with Knock. You could approach him to see what kind of reaction he'd like to see. However, it appears that you have instead chosen to ask the administrator of this server to allow you (or someone else) to organize a "national" attempt to hunt down and potentially kill this character, unbeknown to his player -- effectively preventing him from even being able to roleplay.

Essentially, it looks like your trying to curtail demon hunters in roleplay because you just don't like them.

I hope that my reply does not sound unduly harsh. I'm only trying to explain how what you have requested has come across as. As some of the staff members have noted (they reads my blog!), I'm not too fond of players placing restraints on others due to their own personal preferences. I think that we should try to stimulate roleplay rather than using our own opinions and prejudices to prevent others from pursuing, developing, and even roleplaying their characters.

[Spiralin]

Well, I guess I may of misunderstood how demon hunters came off in the world. I'm not trying to make Knock's character unplayable, I assumed night elves would be more prone to attacking a demon hunter. As Maiev is with Illidan. I don't hate Demon Hunters or anything like that. I have nothing personal against them, I just thought icly that this is what may happen in the world. He chose to make a demon hunter so of course there's people that will go after him. I guess I misunderstood, I didn't know that night elves just didn't bother with demon hunters and let them stroll Azeroth freely.

Edit: Or atleast from Tyrande, but yes. Sorry if this came off as I didn't like him. I was trying to keep it respectful and not bash on him as a player. It is not to be meant to come off as rude and I am sorry to all of those that find it rude.

[Piroska]

Oh, it was respectful, Spiralin! I didn't think at all that you were bashing Knock.

The underlying concern for me, however, is that you proposed something that would directly influence one player without (I assume; as noted, I could be entirely wrong!) discussing that impact with him. In general, communication with other players is strongly encouraged before attempting to do something like this, otherwise it does have that potential to cause OOC problems.

I know that I would be fairly upset if I learned that someone had gone above my head and essentially prevented me from roleplaying a character by bringing an entire nation again her.

Night elves do not like demon hunters. In fact, the vast majority of the world probably doesn't like them. They are unable to recognize the sacrifice that they have taken in their efforts and have misconstrued them to be something nearly as bad as warlocks. However, an effort like the one you've proposed (realistic or not) curtails a specific player's ability to roleplay said character. What would have been the point of all of those months of writing posts and getting approved and jumping through hoops if someone is going to organize a nationwide attempt to get that character "gone and/or caught"? This is considerably more effort than those made to stop warlocks and they're almost universally reviled, Thrall's opinions aside!

As the article on demon hunters noted, they are occasionally allowed to stay in town or in a tavern. That means that there has to be some sort of tolerance for the class, however minimal.

[Spiralin]

I can understand what you mean by the gone over someone's head and tried to get a nation against them. I would see why some people would get mad, but icly if a person doesn't like you, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, it's just like getting a group of light followers together to go after a warlock. If you're a warlock you have to accept the fact there's people that will go after you, you don't really have to get permission to hunt someone if they're a warlock. As I thought with demon hunter, if you're a demon hunter, I assumed the night elf as a race, or Tyrande would order people after you.

Light followers hunt warlocks and shadow users, not many will ask permission, they'll simply follow you cause you must icly accept as a warlock people will go after you, you don't need to accept death.

My thinking was, since he's a demon hunter, I assumed that it'd be a fact some night elves would be ordered after him. Just like how the light attacks darkness. Night elves attack the demon hunter. He wouldn't have to die, but who knows what kind of roleplay it could bring about.

[c0rzilla]

I can understand what you mean by the gone over someone's head and tried to get a nation against them. I would see why some people would get mad, but icly if a person doesn't like you, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it, it's just like getting a group of light followers together to go after a warlock. If you're a warlock you have to accept the fact there's people that will go after you, you don't really have to get permission to hunt someone if they're a warlock. As I thought with demon hunter, if you're a demon hunter, I assumed the night elf as a race, or Tyrande would order people after you.

Light followers hunt warlocks and shadow users, not many will ask permission, they'll simply follow you cause you must icly accept as a warlock people will go after you, you don't need to accept death.

My thinking was, since he's a demon hunter, I assumed that it'd be a fact some night elves would be ordered after him. Just like how the light attacks darkness. Night elves attack the demon hunter. He wouldn't have to die, but who knows what kind of roleplay it could bring about.

I think the issue you're missing here is that you need to speak with Knock before you do anything drastic. He's the only demon hunter we have. We have lots of warlocks.

[Piroska]

[...] it's just like getting a group of light followers together to go after a warlock.

Except your original proposal wasn't a group. It was to go to the leader of the night elves and having the entire nation turn against this one character and anyone that may be helping him:

[...] Then the night elves as a whole I would think would probably send out forcements to either hunt him down, or people who are helping him. [...] I would think the night elves as a race would be very displeased. So I've come to the conclusion of asking here for the right to get the information to Tyrande, which would in turn, Tyrande or the night elves as a race would take rather drastic action, and want the demon hunter, gone and/or caught.

I agree that most people are not (and probably shouldn't) going to like or understand demon hunters. And, yes, many of them may react in similar ways as you have described. But we cannot dictate the reactions of an entire civilization. It's unreasonable and, as I noted previously, I'm not comfortable with the idea of curtailing someone's ability to roleplay to that kind of extreme levels -- and I'm hoping that the rest of the staff would agree.

Furthermore, while hunting down an individual can lead to awesome potential for roleplay, you really should discuss the concept with another character before undertaking any action. It's not a always requirement, but it's strongly encouraged. In situations where a group of people are planning to do something in regards to another person's character, I feel that OOC communication should occur. Particularly if the efforts are going to negatively impact that character or player in any noticeable way. It's not just fair, it's being considerate.

[Spiralin]

Well, this turned out a bit unexpected, I wasn't expecting these answers at all. From my view I just assumed night elves would hunt down demon hunters, apparently on here or for lore, they're allowed to just wander. I do respect all the opinions. Honestly we may have many warlocks and just one demon hunter. But I really don't mind, if many people have begun to look down on me, or whatever may be thought of me, this thread was completely based off of what I thought would happen icly. OOCly I think demon hunter's are awesome, I don't have any personal issues. I just misunderstood how it'd be treated by night elves as a whole. This whole point of this thread for what would happen icly, but it turned into this huge discussion. So, icly then I'd just have to dislike him, Tyrande or anyone like that, wouldn't do anything, basically is what I'm getting.


Edit: I'd like to state that I made this mainly trying to focus on how my man would go about it icly, this was not my own person ooc opinion, of course I used ooc knowledge to back it up, but was mainly trying to deal with how my main character would go about this icly. I'm sad to say I feel like this has turned around against me and I look like the bad guy who is jealous that a demon hunter roams around freely, Knock if you read this I do not have anything against you oocly, I apologize if I offended you with anything in this post.

[Anski]

There are many people who are allied with Fala'thorei (The Demon Hunter in question) and would fight to the death along side him. One of them being my Night Elf Navren. You can go after the Demon Hunter on fears of him being too powerful but chances are you won't survive an encounter with the hunter unless they let you live. They aren't adhered to laws unless they are in the area of lawful intent. I know Knock won't hesitate to retaliate with full lethal force if you go after him, and neither will I.

Edit;
To continue, I back up Piroska here on saying that trying to snuff Fala'thorei is stomping on Knock's VERY hard work. Not saying he should be immortal, it's just that danger that Knock thrusts Fala'thorei into is danger he accepts death for, and putting his life out on the line against demonic/warlock pretenses would be an acceptable death. However, having your character just "OH DEAR THERE'S A DEMON HUNTER ABOUNDING I MUST KILL IT" seems a trite unreasonable. It takes a Demon Hunter to kill a Demon Hunter, it's a part of their grueling trials. Having your character just snap into the thought of must-kill-demon-hunter seems a bit unreasonable unless he's actually wronged you. Fala for the most part stays out of public light, those who have not met him or seen him closely would not actually know of his existence, along with the hundreds of other Demon Hunters wandering Azeroth and Outland.

[Spiralin]

Okay like I've said I'm not trying to stomp him out of existence, I thought wrong, I thought most night elves, or Tyrande would kill a night elf demon hunter wandering Azeroth, I supported what I thought with detail in the first thread. Now it's turning into I'm trying to stomp him out, for what he worked for. I've obviously misunderstood and have said sorry. I did not know/understand that demon hunters could wander around by themselves, and night elves would befriend them and be allies with them. I do understand now and saying that my thinking is, "OH DEAR THERE'S A DEMON HUNTER ABOUNDING I MUST KILL IT" is a bit harsh making me look like the bad guy that I just stated I'm trying to not look like before. Obviously I understand this is a no, this is not my opinion ooc, it's what I thought would happen icly and my reasoning to it.

[Knock]

Whoa, just noticed this thread now haha

@Spiralin: It's just a case of misinterpreting the lore. I honestly have no objection to your character taking offense to Fala'thorei's new way of life, and I certainly have no objection to you hunting him down as a personal vendetta. One thing I would like to clarify, and this goes along with what Anski said, is that there are hundreds of Demon Hunters wandering around (though Fala's the only player-made one). Fala'thorei hasn't even been back to Ashenvale, let alone Darnassus since he became a hunter so I don't see of any reason for the upper echelons of NElf society to have heard of him.

There is a huge stigma surrounding Demon Hunters within Night Elf society. I'm sorry to say that I haven't encountered much of it ICly yet so if you're interested in some RP, don't hesitate to strike some up.

@Everyone else: I'd like to state here that I have no objection to people trying to kill Fala off without my consultation. If you've got an IC reason to hate him, then by all means go for it. I understand that this thinking is a little unorthodox, but my character can't control how the world of Azeroth treats him so why should I, as a player, try? I'll take what comes my way RP-wise and if it means the death of one of my characters, so be it. It's true that I spent a long time working on Fala's prestige posts, IC plotlines, etc, but I enjoyed the writing and I wouldn't mind the challenge of having to do it again. I'm a guy that keeps my IC seperate from my OOC so I won't be offended if you kill one of my characters off. Life goes on.

Of course, it's always best to check with someone beforehand, but I'd just like to let anyone interested know that you have my permission.

[Spiralin]

Yes, thank you so much for not flipping on me, I definitely did misinterpret the lore. Yeah I definitely understand it a lot better and see why this wouldn't happen, this was just an ic thinking of my character. So anyway, sure, if you need some, getting hunted roleplay. I'll be sure to tell you ig when you're on, and I'm on him.

[Knock]

Sounds good. I'm sure there's quite a few people by now who've seen/heard of him ICly so if you'd like to track him down it shouldn't be too hard. I don't tend to port around much on Fala. e.g. If he's in Duskwood, he's in Duskwood, if he's in Azshara, he's in Azshara. You won't see him sitting in a tavern in Ratchet unless he has a good reason to be there.