Does Assassin prestige require Spy or Infiltrator rank?

[Jurkey]

Basically, the title explains the most. Seeing as I'm almost done with my assassin prestige writing, I was curious. On the CotH wiki it says that the most skilled infiltrators or spies become assassins...

Is that true?

[BountyHunter]

Nope. That's all.

[Jurkey]

Good, else I would have wasted alot of work. I don't like how WoWWiki describes the assassins personality, seeing as assassins can have different motives.

Also, what bonusses do you suggest they would get in a fight? Most of the people I've asked seem to have different opinions about this.

[Binkleheimer]

Depends on how they're training goes.

[Jurkey]

What do you mean by that?
Coriv is a skilled assassin, but is also a good frontal fighter. His frontal fighting skills rely alot on counter-attacking, and dodging.

[Xigo]

... Is he an assassin, or a duelist?

... Assassins, historically, aren't that good in an actual fight.

... Regardless. I'm not even sure how an assassin would get roll bonuses in a fight...

[Etmosril]

If anything, Assassins would get a substantial bonus in stealth, undetection, and unobserved (usually extremely lethal) attacks.

However, the skill sets that Assassins are given could be a huge bone of contention with people who don't want to be observed ICly by said assassin, or would prefer to engage in a fight where they actually have a chance of winning. People can't remain on their guard -all- the time. That's a simple fact that assassins take full advantage of. A full-on fight is usually a last resort (for example, their combat skill called Bloodlust is for short-term frenzies).

Because of that skill set, I'd be rather leery of allowing either 'side' too much leeway. If the Assassin's skills take precedence, he or she could kill people easily without ever going into real combat. Likewise, if the opposition is favored, then he or she can completely negate the Assassin's skills by either metagaming or simply refusing to recognize an OOC warning.

My two cents. They're a very hard prestige to find a balance on.

[Kirabo]

My humble opinion clashes with Xigo's, though only partially. Specifically speaking, the assassin would be one who can execute quickly, silently and without trace. Trace always exists, as seen on CSI:Miami/CSI:New York and so on so forth. Silently is basically planned out, and so is quickly.

In combat, I'd say they have a minor bonus to dodging and evading, though not attacking, save for crits. Perhaps the crits could deal triple damage if you pinpoint some joint or tendon?

[Jurkey]

It's not like Coriv has been an assassin for all his life, and has spend most of his life fighting with various weapons, daggers and swords mostly.
I believe that you don't only learn how to assassinate, but also how to quickly kill a target as a failsafe. Knowing alot about the vulnerable spots on beings, and their anatomy you would have an advantage in a fight.

Some people said "you should get a 10-20+ bonus on attack/defence/intial roll" and others said the exact opposite.

@Kirabo: The bonusses sound rather fair, but of course - it's something you arrange with the person you are fighting with.

I just find it a bit silly that assassin is actually Cat2, as it doesn't really give any specific benefits.

[Etmosril]

Hmmm.. I agree with the stance of adjusting your bonuses according to what the other players with you at the time agree on. It might not be a fair balance on some occasions, but it's better than nothing.

If you settle on non-modified roll fights, you're still capable of showing your prestigious-ness. Assassins have practiced enough to refine their rogue abilities further. Say, for example, that a normal rogue knows to aim for and manipulate weak points on the target's body. Or perhaps they're adept at judging a person's attacks and fighting style. Or they've discovered ways to use a person's natural physical limitations against them. An Assassin would presumably do some of those 'better' than a garden-variety rogue.
In short, it doesn't take modified rolls to change your emotes according to your prestige.

And Jurkey, I disagree. You get some genuinely -amazing- skills from the Assassin prestige. Best of all, they're not limited to combat.

[Jurkey]

Well, even though your emotes would be more variated and complex, it doesn't make your character any stronger - it just makes them more fancy.

EDIT: Oh, didn't say that you said "non-rollfight" thing. But not many people are willing to let go off an attached character, atleast not without putting up a fight.

[Binkleheimer]

Bah. Pop a cloak of shadows and trollfaise as enemy casters can't touch you.

[Xigo]

... I think the thing is here, is that we all seem to focus on roll fighting for everything.

An assassin would likely never enter combat. No, instead they would flee, if only to come back when your guard's down if only to slit your throat.

I personally believe Coriv should receive bonuses to any rolls revolving around sneaking, hiding, remaining silent, misdirection, and things like that. Otherwise, what would be the difference between him and a duelist?

I fully agree with Kirabo as far as roll bonuses are concerned for combat.

Perhaps initiating combat from stealth automatically gets a critical hit in?

[Jurkey]

Well, I'm not saying that Coriv is Ezio Auditore da Firenze. I'm just saying that an assassin would know so much about anatomy and stuff like that, that he might have a small advantage in a fight. But yeah, I know what you mean and Coriv doesn't specialize in frontal combat either, seeing as he preffer to gang up on people or just slit their throat in their sleep.

Would something like 10+ roll bonus on dodge/block/counter or getting intial attack and 30+ bonus roll be alright(for the first attack)? Assassins are agile and takes advantage of the benefit of surprise.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I think that with that much for an instant would need a negative to balance it out.

See, what I have with Shivala is the following.

Long range shots = +20, due to the fact that Dead Shot specializes in sniping.
Close range shots = +10, due to the fact that it isn't her specialty, but is still generally related to her prestige, with power and such.
Melee = -20. Yes, she knows kill spots for people, but she has no practice with this, and has all around forsaken this.
Defense = 0. She never focused on this, yet didn't forsake it like melee.


EDIT: May I suggest -20 to defense? It doesn't seem very Assassin-ish to be able to put up a fight against a blade.