Interesting way to play with roll

[Saiyuu]

Well, I was visiting the forums I noticed that many people are not very satisfied with the default (or most used) system of roll: Yeah, that one where the full-armored knight has the same hp as the skinny mage.

Nothing against these who like it, just thought it would be interesting to share a little idea I had. I saw other person (can't find the post now argh @_@) post a very good way to play roll, by adding extra points to rolls or causing some actions depending on the character's race or class. Another way to improve it could be to "customize" the rolls according to the way our characters fight, the weapons they use, etecetera. For example, my character Celes would be something like this... I'm using a good deal of the other topic I saw so if any of you find that topic, posting the link would be very nice~

- Base HP 5, but would receive +1 due to Draenei constitution, and another +1 for being a warrior and having combat training;
- Would receive a +10/+15 in evade and in hit rolls, due to agility specialization (yes... someone that fights having a preference for agility). Due to the same agility and speed, critical evasion by the enemy would actually cause some damage (1 point for example... You could say that one put a leg on Celes' way while she was charging, causing her to trip... Poor goat.)
- If the roll is not won with at least 30+ points, hits on armored areas wouldn't cause HP damage, rather could have other effects, like sending the armor piece flying away, breaking it, or even tossing the user around like a rag-doll (which probably would give the attacker an extra attack turn).
- Fighting styles and weapon choices could also make a lot of difference (one has to agree that a war hammer hitting your chest is more likely to make you scream for your mommy than some sword hits, while an ugly miss by the same war hammer might even cause its user to lose balance, the lighter sword could probably cause less of that problem.); In Celes' example, she fights with two shortened curved sabers, usually holding them in a reverse-grip style (which actually exists in sword fighting, despite belief of some~ it is more effective for people who fight in a defensive style and gives the user a little more strength while attacking, at cost of attack reach. This happens because by using reverse grip, the user can put its body weight to use as well). Her swords are light, so it is very unlikely that it will ever go through a plate armor unless the hit happens to be a crit or a miracle happens and turns her blades into lightsabers (but I sincerely believe the Force would laugh at her in this one). Still, the same blades are easy and fast to manipulate, allowing better aiming (if you feel like hitting specific areas).


For now, that's all I remember from that silly idea of mine. Hope you guys like it. :3

[Loxmardin]

I think this is in the wrong subforum. :3

Moving to General Discussion.

[Saiyuu]

I think this is in the wrong subforum. :3

Moving to General Discussion.

Oh sorry~ And thank you.

[Xigo]

It is my opinion that if you want interesting fights, you should rely on 'trust fighting' instead of dice.

Things tend to play out much nicer in those.

[Saiyuu]

It is my opinion that if you want interesting fights, you should rely on 'trust fighting' instead of dice.

Things tend to play out much nicer in those.

Yeah, I agree completely, but sometimes people won't trust you for trust fighting. Still, I'd love if they did. ^^

[BountyHunter]

All my recent PvE fights have been trust fighting. Why? You're going to win anyway if you roll fight, trusting them is so much more fun. Also, the basic rules for Trust fighting is. . .

1) Be honest, would you dodge that strike? Would you do that attack? Could you possibly beat the person in front of you?

2) Be brutal, don't be afraid to hurt your character. Punching a ghoul repeatable in the skull can break your hand (Yes, my friend did this, she is awesome).

3) Know when to give up, fights don't need to be won when someone is K.O. If you feel your fighter can't take any more (Or in an Undead's case, get bored) then simply wave the white flag.

That's all I can say on it ^.^

[MadFerret]

It is my opinion that if you want interesting fights, you should rely on 'trust fighting' instead of dice.

Things tend to play out much nicer in those.

The amount of faith you have in people is saintly Xigo.

I personally prefer roll fights myself. If done well, they can be really awesome! You also gotta love that element of random chance. 'Sides, you can get some really fun, interesting effects from roll fights. (Sword? Ha! Taste my critical rock throw!).

Roll fights put characters on even ground and are usually very fair. (UNless you're fighting a prestige :P). Now, yes...if you're having an unlucky day you might say that the rolls don't really reflect your character's skill and training. This is true.. But like I said: Roll fighting is fair, it's truthful, and it evens the playing field.

[Clovis]

The amount of faith you have in people is saintly Xigo.

Considering our server is a small, and supposedly tight-knit community, Trust Fights really should be the -norm-. As well as having faith in your fellow cothers.

[HownDoog]

The issues ends up with players that you don't know and just want to fight.
Those tend to be the ones who have this godly view of their character.
They also end up disappearing after a week or two.

[Rosencrat]

Roll fighting is fair, it's truthful, and it evens the playing field.

War isn't fair!

In all honesty, though, I prefer trust fighting. That's because combat shouldn't be fair.

Case in point: If Mari was fighting a Demon Hunter, and we were doing rolls, what would happen if -by a fluke of chance- Mari kept winning over Demon Hunter rolls, even with the modifiers? Does the Demon Hunter, a man trained to slaughter demons and step deftly, keep emoting that his character 'just stumbles'?

Rolls make fighting too formulaic. I've seen dozens of events where people slap up "I throw a shadow bolt at the leviathen" and then focus entirely on their rolls. That seems more like gambling then role-playing. And yes, gambling is equal and, in some cases, addictive. But can we consider all fights a gamble?

Roll fighting is all about the end, of either victory or defeat. Trust fighting is all about the journey. Whether you live or die in the end doesn't matter; If you trust fight, then the battle itself is enjoyable.

[Psychyn]

While the whole trust fighting vs roll fighting is derailing this thread into another discussion, I'd like to say it all comes down to the player. There (in my opinion) shouldn't be any norms to oppose Clovis his argument, because people just enjoy one way more then the other. Many different people reside on CotH, many different RP styles and roots, and while a smaller community then Retail, it is impossible to know the entire server.

I prefer roll, yet trust with others because I have RPed with them before. When I know my character is much weaker then the player I'm sparring with, I tend to trust because I know she wouldn't have a chance realistically. When my character is about the same strength, if not stronger I roll to give the other person as much chance as me to win the sparring / fighting.

Back to the topic of the original poster however, I've always used the standard /roll to decide what will happen. No modifiers/bonuses, but I might be persuaded to go off that path and use a system if a popular one is set in place.

Regarding base HP - here's a idea.

Warriors = +1 due to combat training, -5 to dodges. Their supposed to block hits, not dodge them.
Rogues = +0, +5 to defence rolls.
Mages = -1 fragile due to training spells more then the body, +5 to attacks.
Warlocks = +0 As I believed that their spells didn't require much studying like mages, but perhaps varying on the demon they use they get a bonus?
Priests = -1, able to heal self for a round to get +1 health if the roll is above.. 50?

Shaman.. No clue as I've never looked deeper into them.

Just some ideas I had when reading this topic.

Edit: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=27119

There already seems to be a system going on in the progress, perhaps a idea to look at that one? ^.~

[muhaha8]

As I believed that their spells didn't require much studying like mages.

Wat. I would beg to differ, Psychyn. I would say that your view on warlockery is a rather overused stereotype, sadly. More power usually requires more knowledge and more time spent. That's why characters like Tavren, Aulten, Mari, etc. spent years training in warlockery. Being so fresh and nub-like with one's training can often be -very- fatal. Supervision is most definitely reccomended when undergoing training. It's an unimaginably tempting art, and it doesn't take much to push one over the edge to do something they can't actually do.

Anyways, train wreck. By me. Back on topic. I believe in trust fights for most PvP situations. By most, I mean with people I know, have RPed with before, and well, trust. PvE, I usually stand by a /roll system, typically Brutal's, because it doesn't require an intense amount of work from an event participant's standpoint. K.I.S.S. is the proper phrase.

[Xigo]

Allow me to toss in a sort of example of the stupidity that can occur during a 'roll fight'.

It was the Surry Bowl's archery contest. At least 15 night elves lined up to take shots are target, anyone getting a bullseye being declared the winner.

My dwarf, Mordeka, entered this contest on a whim. He didn't even have a bow. He ended up using rocks on the ground.

All the elves rolled fairly well, 40s mostly out of a 50 system.

Mordeka rolled a fifty.

He beat trained archers with rocks.

While some might view it as awesome (I know I do), I still feel as though I robbed those dedicated archer characters of a prize they deserved. Because if we are to believe the dice, a dwarf throwing rocks is a better shot than 1000+ year old rangers.

[Psychyn]

As I believed that their spells didn't require much studying like mages.

Wat. I would beg to differ, Psychyn. I would say that your view on warlockery is a rather overused stereotype, sadly. More power usually requires more knowledge and more time spent. That's why characters like Tavren, Aulten, Mari, etc. spent years training in warlockery. Being so fresh and nub-like with one's training can often be -very- fatal. Supervision is most definitely reccomended when undergoing training. It's an unimaginably tempting art, and it doesn't take much to push one over the edge to do something they can't actually do.

Anyways, train wreck. By me. Back on topic. I believe in trust fights for most PvP situations. By most, I mean with people I know, have RPed with before, and well, trust. PvE, I usually stand by a /roll system, typically Brutal's, because it doesn't require an intense amount of work from an event participant's standpoint. K.I.S.S. is the proper phrase.

Thanks for that! It is indeed based on encounters I've had in-game and on NWN where it stated warlocks could learn from scrolls and warlocks gained it through other means. (Or something like that, it's been a real while since I played the game and never looked into warlocks from WoW.)

Allow me to toss in a sort of example of the stupidity that can occur during a 'roll fight'. .. More words!

Stupidity as it might be, I am going to defend again that there are many people with many different likes. I don't care how stupid it may be seen to roll, some people like it and other's simply don't. There's no need to bring up the argument again that rolling is not realistic, as I've seen trust fighting that wasn't very realistic either. ^.~

Besides, the original intend of this thread (And forgive me here if I'm wrong) was to add ideas to roll fighting to make it more realistic. I may not be a GM but I've little wish to see this thread getting derailed by users in favour of trust fighting. There will always be two versions, heck even three if you count the use of the game mechanics and duel, and that's the way it should be. Let people decide for themselves, and adding variation to the standard roll system is good, but wiping it off the table because it's not realistic isn't really allowing others to use the system they prefer. I understand it not being realistic, I understand it being based on sheer luck, but sometimes, that's just what a player enjoys.

I'll repeat that the original intention of the thread was to add diversity to the roll system, not to start a discussion on why trust is better then roll and I do hope we can simply stay with the suggestions of adding to that roll system here. I'm frowning at the people heavily in favour of a system and telling others what system to use, we all have our ways and all have our dislikes. Let's not derail a thread containing a good idea into a new discussion about what people prefer.

Now, forgive me if I haven't written it the best as I could have. I just think we should stick to the topic here and this is why I may come over as defensive. In a way, I am because it's just going to turn into a QQ-thread instead of allowing a in essence, good idea to develop further.

[muhaha8]

That first sentence.

Yup. Although it's a standard rule of thumb that all darker magics can be considered more potent and deadly, especially to the user. Anyways, back on topic.

The bottom half of that post.

I can't agree with you more. Although, I stated my opinion in the previous post of mine.