An issue of competency among classes

[ImagenAshyun]

Something that as been bugging me since I was told of how I roleplayed as of late.

I learned--the hard way--how druidic transformations are done instaneously as per the opening cinematic of the first WoW installment. Okay, all fine and dandy, understandable. The thing is, it meant going against my second idea on portraying Kentado's "faildrood" characterization. I decided to change from my original idea, which is that he cannot get his forms right and even changed into creatures that are not traditionally druidic forms (a rabbit, for example), as a source of cheap gags... and even -that- got lore-consistency warnings. The second idea was to play on transformation by portraying his forms as incomplete; for instance, he'd have an elven head on a cat body. -That- was especially shot down. And then I would get a short lecture on how, as an adult, Kentado, by now, should roughly be a master at transformation and that he should have no excuse to have partial or unorthodox forms.

As you can see, this all not only hampered my ability to think of how to "correctly" portray someone who doesn't know what he's doing, but it took me so far aback that I withheld referencing druidism for my character at all, to the point I remained unresponsive in RP for -an hour- at one point (meaning Kent just sat there).

The thing is, in real life, anyone can pass any sort of test, exam, and studies, and still be fairly incompetent in what they do. I remember hearing jokes how portraying "failadins" ICly are just about near impossible because you cannot "mishandle" the Light. I suppose it's all about how competency is required to even exist, but we know that competency in a class, occupation, and skill extends far beyond just gameplay mechanics. How on earth can you roleplay someone whose competency in skills are developed -in character- as opposed to being strictly enforced before this character even comes to existence?

I know we come hard on over-powered hero and villain types, but come on, you can't apply those same rules on the "loser" archetypes as well. I'd like to know how this server handles competency issues on just about any or all classes, not just druids. If Kent can't exist as a "faildruid", well, like I said, it hampers on on his characterization, which I intended for him to get better. If not, I'll figure some other way to make him a pitiful loser besides his perpetual inability to get a date.

[Kaghuros]

Well what if he can't transform at all? What if the spirits of bear or cat or raven just don't think he's ready? You don't half-ass that kind of stuff, especially when you need to pass a real test in order to gain access to the powers of a Druid, it's either full ass or no ass. For Paladins too, you can be an apprentice or squire and learn IC'ly which many people have done, but if your character can call on the light and still mishandle it terribly as a full-fledged Paladin, you're doing it wrong. No one graduates to fail when their profession is all about years of training and mastery.

[Dragonbeard]

The biggest difference between the situation you present with passing a test and what Kaghuros presents is the grading scale.

For Paladins, Druids, ect. the grade is based on pass or fail. You can either do something or not.

For most tests that one can pass and still be inept at their jobs in real life (State-administered assessments, ACT, SAT, MCAT, ect.), the grade is based on a percentage, where you must achieve 70% success. So you can get away with not knowing 30% of the information required.

I do understand the confusion in the situation that you present, because THERE ARE some Paladins/Druids who are less talented than others. However, that is not because they are entirely inept at what they do, but instead, limited. Limits and ineptitude are two different things.

[Stormgald]

I would have to agree with Kaghuros and Dragonbeard with this. Druid ineptitude is unlikely because in order to be able to shapeshift, one must commune with the spirits in order to obtain this power. If he was not good enough then, he would not have received the power to begin with. You see? Its a hit or miss subject. You can't do it, you don't get the power, essentially.

[DaveM]

All druids are competent. that's how you RP'm, okay? The typicalk druid is duuuh competent, you see, so yea- that's what you're to RP too. [/sarcasm]

I don't see a problem in itself with the concept of the fail-shifter. It's a deviation from 'typical' that -can- work if explained well, hurts nobody really (other than the views on lore of some) and just provides for fun.

(To your specific case - It's unlikely but not impossible that he got the power as an exception - all schools produce fail students, or have fail-students come out without their realising it. Moreover, it might be the case that while he squeaked out initially to get the power, his lack of talent might cause him to soon fall out of practice and then begin to fail.)

All that said,

On CotH, lots of people will CotH on you with 'concept inconsistent with lore, don't!', when what they really mean, often not realising, is:

'Look, this is atypical lore area you're exploring, and while you're explaining it well and fun and it says nowhere explicitly that you can't, if this goes, somebody tommorow -will- take what you were allowed to do and use it as a precedent to do some really awful RP.'

You want to fail and have accidental partial shifts? Sure. Tommorow: Kitten-elves.

You want to be spoken a word or two by the Loa as a troll commoner during your prayer? Sure. Tommorow: Prophets, everywhere.

You want to ride a pheonix seeing as you've ICly been focusing on fire mastery for months? Ok. Tommorow: "What do you mean? All academy graduates are taught how to summon these!"

You want to roleplay your character struggling to maintain contact with the shaman spirits while also casting divine spells? Yea, okay. Tommorow: Quintuple-classing. Etc.


Lots of ideas that are a stretch from lore are not lore-breaking in themselves but an awful precedent. Asking GMs and the community to police the difference between good and bad deviations from norms is a burdensome task, pressing on many resources, ranging from 'drama-levels' to 'overall realism' and 'staff time', and so should only be asked for for the biggest things. (see special profiles, custom models, prestiges, and, historically speaking, more and more made available every year).

Sorry if this was too general, but it was something I wanted to type about for a while, especially for myself, sice I get very down when my concepts that are more out there get shot down.

But ask yourself this: Is it likely that someone will take my concept tommorow and turn it to fail? If so, take it for the team and drop it.

[Wuvvums]

Just as a note, I think there was a questline in Cataclysm involving a troll druid that was a fail-shifter. He'd keep shifting into the wrong forms and stuff.

It was meant to be a comedic quest, yes, but it also shown that a somewhat incompetent troll could do it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

^

This is why I don't like Cataclysm that much. Blizzard, basically, (and everyone knows this) is going for coolness over what actually makes sense. Did you know there's someone called Dumass in Hillsbrad? He talks in full caps. Plus, Wuvvums, that's a Troll that's trained for 5 years -at most-. Do you think he'd be nearly on the level of one who's trained for at least 10 times that long, if not 20? 40, maybe? Plus, I don't believe the GMs have -ever- allowed you to mis-cast on something, like a firebolt actually becoming a frostbolt.

[Kaghuros]

Huh. That's funny that they added that in Cata. I've always gone by how the Druid training quests worked on Retail back in the day, where you had to go visit the giant white bear and he would give you bear form, and complete the test of the manatee for manatee form, and that kind of stuff. It was like, "Yeah we're making you do this really difficult thing, and if you do that, -then- we'll let you see the spirits and you have to ask them nicely for the ability to walk like them. And if Bear says you're not ready, I guess you're going back to Darkshore to kill us ten more rats."

[Mezrin]

I did the quest line there, and while it was comical, it was still... weird. He was able to shapeshift, he was just stupid.

[Dragonbeard]

Yeah, the quest is still irrelevant because while the Troll Druid is an idiot, he still manages to shapeshift. Also, if we're going to take all of those silly quests into play, I'm going to create a character that has a full time job picking through poop in the Borean Tundra.

And Dave, I totally see your point, but you're missing ours.

There is no possible way you can fail a shapeshift and produce anything. You either shift into the form, or you don't. It's not a matter of opinion. It's not a matter of people being picky. It's a matter of evidence and rules.

[ImagenAshyun]

I'm not too worried about this issue anymore. I can probably stew over how I can portray an unfavorable druid besides ability to shapeshift. I can probably go by the "smart but lazy" route, given my druid is already a slacker. He can shift, but choose not to.

What do you think?

[Binkleheimer]

^

This is why I don't like Cataclysm that much. Blizzard, basically, (and everyone knows this) is going for coolness over what actually makes sense. Did you know there's someone called Dumass in Hillsbrad? He talks in full caps. Plus, Wuvvums, that's a Troll that's trained for 5 years -at most-. Do you think he'd be nearly on the level of one who's trained for at least 10 times that long, if not 20? 40, maybe? Plus, I don't believe the GMs have -ever- allowed you to mis-cast on something, like a firebolt actually becoming a frostbolt.

The guy in Hillsbrad is also part of a quest that basically puts you in the role of the questgiver.
The entire quest is a bit of snark by Blizzard directed at the playerbase.
It's not meant to be taken seriously. It's a joke in an already joke filled game that takes place in a universe that's basically an almagamation of the fantasy genre as a whole.
The troll Druid? He wasn't shifting into re wrong shapes. He was just useless. In fact, he was able to shift into shapes he wanted to shift into, he just had no idea what he was doing. Plus, his wrath spells were weak.
This is why he became a healer.

[BountyHunter]

I'm not too worried about this issue anymore. I can probably stew over how I can portray an unfavorable druid besides ability to shapeshift. I can probably go by the "smart but lazy" route, given my druid is already a slacker. He can shift, but choose not to.

What do you think?

You can do that.

Another thing you could do is have him need to spend more time actually shifting into an animal in order to make it seem like he hasn't perfected that art. Whilst he doesn't fail at it and would be capable of transforming, it is simply more difficult for him to do than, say, someone who has been a druid for a millennium or ten.