Titan magic and stuff

[Dae]

I've been asking around a bit about Forsaken Sisters of Steel, but I guess what I'm really wondering about is what a character being undead has to do with their ability to tap into their innate Titanic origins. (this applies pretty much to Gnomes, Dwarves and Humans, of course)

There honestly isn't too much lore talking about the specifics of latent Titan-related what-nots, but what is known so far on the topic is this:

Gnomes can become Mechagnomes and back again if the Curse of Flesh is removed. (According to this questline)

Dwarves have Stoneform, which makes some degree of Titanic-related magic available to undead by server policy, as Dwarf Death Knights can use it. According to the RPG, this ability was found as the Dwarves learned more about their origins, suggesting that such an magics are possible to cultivate with enough study and information.

And then there's the Sisters of Steel, which is the big example of someone fully embracing Titan magic and becoming an elemental type being, though this seems to be related to some kind of blessing from the creator forge guy Titan Khaz'goroth, who would presumably be a patron entity for people super dedicated to the forge and have something to do with their being beyond just dedicated smiths.
The RPG book even suggests that other races, such as the non-Titanic orcs might become Sisters of Steel, either making this transformation purely to do with invoking Titanic magic rather than tapping into existing traits, or just showing that it predated the "Humans and gnomes and dorfs are all made from Titan stuff" game lore.

The Sisters of Steel and the Mechagnome questline are the only examples of someone turning to a non fleshy state permanently through Titanic magic, so a studious practice of using such a force is largely unexplored at this time in general. RPing it on the server here would really be going out on a lore limb without throwing in the undead factor in there, but I figured I'd throw out the idea in general, if nothing else but to learn more about Titan-related stuffs.

[flammos200]

...I like this hypothesis. Very, very much.

However, you're incorrect on one point. Sisters of Steel that walk into an Anti-Magic Zone are returned to normal for the duration of their stay in that anti-magic zone. It's a permanently active effect sure, but it can be suppressed by magic-nullifying effects cast on the person or on the area.

Dwarven Avatars(The male counterpart to Sister of Steel) can also stoneform for very long periods of time.

And just as undead Draenei can still call upon the Gift of the Naaru to use Light, undead Dwarves can Stoneform and so on, so should Forsaken Sisters of Steel be possible. Somehow.

[Dae]

...I like this hypothesis. Very, very much.

However, you're incorrect on one point. Sisters of Steel that walk into an Anti-Magic Zone are returned to normal for the duration of their stay in that anti-magic zone. It's a permanently active effect sure, but it can be suppressed by magic-nullifying effects cast on the person or on the area.

Dwarven Avatars(The male counterpart to Sister of Steel) can also stoneform for very long periods of time.

And just as undead Draenei can still call upon the Gift of the Naaru to use Light, undead Dwarves can Stoneform and so on, so should Forsaken Sisters of Steel be possible. Somehow.

... Yeah, I totally forgot mentioning the Dwarven Avatars. /facepalm
And yeah, I also neglected to mention the anti-magic zone, though that goes to further enforce the theory that Avatars/Sisters of Steel are envoking Titanic magic rather than an innate state, and Dwarves are most into this because of their forge-centric culture makes them much more predisposed to discovering it.

And I suppose that means that I'm also suggesting that these practices are applying a stoneform to a fleshy person, rather than regressing the Curse of Flesh.

Which brings me to another point of that Mechagnome quest. I mean, WTF, blizz? People can uncurse and curse people instantly? Isn't that kind of a huge deal?
Still, I want to decurse a dead someone to see what happens. :P

[CappnRob]

The Curse of Flesh is the curse the Old Gods evoked on everything the titans created.

Either way, I'd assume any of the three Titanic races (Humans, Gnomes, and Dwarfs) can evoke the Titan magic. For undead, it's a little trickier. Stoneform, the dwarf racial, is very short lived and has a cooldown. There are actually three cases of dwarfs channeling their Earthen abilities:

Stoneform, which every dwarf can use. Short duration, temporary, ect.
Avatars, which are dwarfs who have mastered their abilities to transform into avatars of stone, but they're not the same as a Mountain King's avatar state. Avatars must meditate to obtain their form and get a variety of abilities unique to their stone forms, and essentially stay as such forever.
Mountain Kings are the pinnacle of titan power. They can switch between dwarf and avatar at will, and command not only the Earth but also other elements as well. It should also be worth noting that mountain kings are nobility, as well, so they have a social aspect of them that regular avatars lack.

Of interesting note in regards to the Titans, Old Gods, and the curse of flesh, is what the game shows in Ulduar. The legendary weapon, Val'anyr, is said to flow with the "energy of creation", and it shares the same graphic effect as the magic energy things like Mechagnomes posses. It could be theorized that exposure to Titanic "creation energy" could purge the undead status of something, or at least, revert them from their "cursed" forms to their original titanic forms.

SPECULATION IS FUN.

[Kaghuros]

I find it hard to believe that simple exposure to Titan magic would strip the curse of undeath so easily. We know for a fact that undeath is persistent through other kinds of magic, such as resurrection in any form and is entirely resistant to disjunction-type dispels and magic removal. It's a nasty curse perpetrated through nasty un-counterable Eredar magic that alters the very soul of your being. Chances are only the Titans themselves would be able to undo it.

[muhaha8]

I find it hard to believe that simple exposure to Titan magic would strip the curse of undeath so easily. We know for a fact that undeath is persistent through other kinds of magic, such as resurrection in any form and is entirely resistant to disjunction-type dispels and magic removal. It's a nasty curse perpetrated through nasty un-counterable Eredar magic that alters the very soul of your being. Chances are only the Titans themselves would be able to undo it.

... Well, supposedly, a Miracle or Wish can work, but we can't use those spells!

I do believe that Titan magic, not just the Titans themselves, can do it; Hell, Titan creations can undo the Curse of Flesh, purported to be even more difficult to undo than Undeath.

... Hmm... This gives me ideas for Ranzel...

[Kaghuros]

You know who I bet could cast Wish and Miracle? A Titan.

[Rigley]

It's funny; I was actually kicking around the idea of the whole 'recursing' and the like in order to revive an undead to full life for an event chain.

Of course it was also set to end horribly, since even with titanic magic and artifacts I don't feel comfortable with anything, GM-ran NPC or player, undoing such a thing. But it would make an interesting and doomed endeavor, I think.

[Piroska]

I don't think that there is ever anything wrong with moving forward to accomplish something like that and then fail. It neatly sidesteps the issues with accomplishing something that players should not be able to accomplish while adding further depth to a character's story. Failures are often more important in defining a character than successes.

I'm of the opinion that direct use of Titan magic should be limited, not only because we don't fully understand what can be done and how, but also because it has the potential of scaling way out of proportion.

That said, speaking of mechagnomes, there was an active plot on Feathermoon involving members of the Alliance defense organization. Apparently, the leader and other gnomes with whom he was associated were turned into mechagnomes and effort was undertaken to revert it. It was very interesting initially, but it ended up being a little ridiculous at the end.

[Harmonic]

So.

Horrible failure, old gods unleashed, millions die?

Woooorth it!

[Rigley]

So.

Horrible failure, old gods unleashed, millions die?

Woooorth it!

Hey. You want to make a good tragedy, you have to break some hearts/families/relationships/brains every once and a while, right?

...On a serious note though the only issue with this sort of stuff is with people who judge the 'worth' of a storyline by what it accomplishes. I know in the past one of my storylines has been called worthless by a few people due to how it resulted in a return to the norm-- to explain further it was a flash of war which ended with both sides agreeing to unsteady peace after great loss on each side.

And hey, see, I like that sort of stuff. Clear victors hardly ever happen in most kinds of conflicts-- at least not in a way where everyone is all super-happy with their win. People die, and they're not always the bad guys going down.

'Course it could be argued that this is fantasy and we should be allowed those kinds of wins-- but personally that sounds more like a raid in WoW rather than RP. In RP that bittersweet ending builds up character, at least in my opinion.

...Tangent? Tangent.

[Harmonic]

That's a lot of crap. Worthless? So, character growth and exposition is worthless because you didn't become a god or have fat loot?

I think all the posts where someone has to transcend the NORM is worthless, in the fact that there are so many that the idea has become diluted.

NOW EVERYONE LOOK AT MY KITTENS.

What I just was totally not mean! Kittens!

[DaveM]

To tangent the tangent: Events that are OOCly known to end up in failiure might attract the -best- RP, because it'd have people come to the show without the ooc wishes for glory (that they might not even be aware of but that might be warping their RP in a bad way). Quite frankly, if I know we're winning the event with no IC deaths, then I -will- likely spend my time being badass, because being safe isn't rewarded.

Bound-for-tragedy storylines with at least 25% mortality rates (and char development for it to matter). Yeahh.

[Rigley]

To tangent the tangent: Events that are OOCly known to end up in failiure might attract the -best- RP, because it'd have people come to the show without the ooc wishes for glory (that they might not even be aware of but that might be warping their RP in a bad way). Quite frankly, if I know we're winning the event with no IC deaths, then I -will- likely spend my time being badass, because being safe isn't rewarded.

Bound-for-tragedy storylines with at least 25% mortality rates (and char development for it to matter). Yeahh.

Eh. There wasn't any character death, nor did I really want there to be. It wasn't even a tragic event, moreso just a war storyline that resolved in an ending which was kinda unsatisfactory to both sides ICly-- One side because they wanted more, and the other because they lost the conflict.

On that note I don't think it would have really helped to advertise 'hey, this will end like X' because it just seems... strange. You don't post a storyline with the ending set out for all to see, it kinda ruins it a bit.

Regarding the loss of life I meant that as my own personal idea on tragedy though, and notably when such happened it was an NPC character.

[Kaghuros]

I once heard an interesting story about a World of Darkness LARP that might play into your ideas nicely. The GMs set up a LARP with one of their friends, who was recruited to pretend to be a fellow LARPer. He came into the group and made friends on the first day, even going so far as to become the party face by sheer luck and roleplaying ability. At the end of the intro session his character was violently murdered in a raid on Elysium. The other players were a mix of angry, confused, and wholly interested in finding out what had happened. The PCs were genuinely afraid for their lives, and the RP went on with a grittier theme and much more caution and realism in character action due to what they'd set up.