The NEW Feedback of CappnRob!

[CappnRob]

Old thread is stale and lame time for a new one with a fancier title.

My characters you have probably seen me RP!

Cristovao di Silvio
The Lordaeron paladin who was once a huge pain in my creative side has become one of my favorites to RP. Really want feedback on him!

Hrodebert Rivermouth
The cowboy dwarf with the elf wife and son! He's been branching out into a lot of adventure RP lately!

Madugo
My dust-collecting troll shaman without friends. I really need some advice on how to bring back the hippie troll back to the front.

Aryeon
Blood elf high priest whose a high elf at heart! I let him take a break for a while but now the cranky old man is coming back for more RP.

Du'guro
Cranky old troll who doesn't see much action. Needs more classic Horde RP.

Hercynian
Lazy druid who turns into a tree and sleeps everywhere! And is covered in bugs.

Gantrithor
Manly blacksmith goat of the Alliance army who doesn't afraid of any Horde! He's developed a lot lately, so I want some feedback on him!

Mathieu Rivermouth
The psychic elf with a dwarven stepfather and is culturally removed from both. Mathieu is a delicate case, because his personality and nature could easily stick him in the dreaded "Generic Friendly Booty Bay BE" category. I reaaaally want feedback on him, from his happy-go-lucky attitude to his relationship with Hrodebert and Jami.

Maeia di Silvio
My latest break-out character, the once storyline-only Forsaken has pretty much become my new favorite in the wake of Gantrithor's ascension to awesome. Another one I really want feedback on.

Medrod Coalheart
A lesser played character, and my only villain. He's very much a WIP right now, but the only way to improve a WIP is to see what people think of him!

Langobard Silvermountain
My only Death Knight who doesn't see too much RP, but he's there!

Also, how am I doing as a RPer? Do I have annoying habits? What about my storytelling? And my OOC attitude? I want it all! I really want DEEP IN DEPTH feedback, so give me all you got! To more detailed, the better.

I'm dorky that way.

[Xigo]

While I could go on a spew about this issue, I'll open with an image.

Spoiler:

You seem to butt heads with the GM team a lot concerning lore, though it has gotten better. Regardless...

Mathieu... bothers me. He bothers me greatly. He's a... what, 21 year old blood elf who's an accomplished enough shadow priest to read minds? You refer to him as a psychic. He also comes off as this great manchild, which I wouldn't mind. I just... feel like he's a caricature sometimes. He doesn't feel like an established character. Just proof that Jami had a child, and that Hrodebert raised an elf. He does not fit anywhere, which I know is your intention, but still, it bugs me. You could help him fit by giving him a fuller personality. Though maybe I haven't seen him around enough to make that call.

You seem to invade roleplay at times. I understand everyone wants to roleplay, but they jump into things, and it seems like you play them as heroes. However... I'll get to that.

See, my major issue is that you play your characters as badass, manly heroes. You describe your characters as this practically. They're all stubborn personality-wise, but that's not what I'm focusing on. You're forcing their badassery, and you're forcing their heroics. It feels like they are these things because you say they are. They don't really lose. Like sure, they might lose a fight, but they're never really seriously bothered. I haven't seen one of your characters really lose. A strong character, to me, loses. And not just a 'blast, I lost, time to do better next time'. But a serious loss which changes the character.

This likely stems from you not really partaking in scenarios where your character is really in danger. They don't seem to feel fear. Or even fear for themselves. They... come off as fearless. Which is something I don't like in a character, believe it or not. Someone who does not feel fear is not interesting to me. It takes away a lot of suspense, unless this fearlessness is actually used in an interesting way.

Without your characters feeling fear, they can't be brave. Without being brave, they can't be heroes. Maybe you are roleplaying them as being brave, but let it show that they're afraid. Sure, they can try to hide it ICly. But let us know that they're mortals too. Give us a sign that they're pushing through personal stress and fears, instead of just treating everything like one big adventure. Don't have them tell us they're afraid, have them be afraid. Show it through emotes. Maybe a man's hands shiver, or he breaks into a cold sweat. His eyes widen slightly and affix themselves to whatever sight avails him so. His breaths could become heavy, there's a plethora of things you can do. Give it a whirl.

[CappnRob]

Xigo gave me feedback? AND IT'S HUGE. AND IN DEPTH. AND CRITICAL. HRGGGGN YES I FEEL EXCITE.

Ok, time to break it down.

You seem to butt heads with the GM team a lot concerning lore, though it has gotten better. Regardless...

I wear my safety helmet now! In all seriousness I've gotten over... whatever it was I was being hardheaded over. IT WAS A MYSTERY.

Mathieu... bothers me. He bothers me greatly. He's a... what, 21 year old blood elf who's an accomplished enough shadow priest to read minds? You refer to him as a psychic. He also comes off as this great manchild, which I wouldn't mind. I just... feel like he's a caricature sometimes. He doesn't feel like an established character. Just proof that Jami had a child, and that Hrodebert raised an elf. He does not fit anywhere, which I know is your intention, but still, it bugs me. You could help him fit by giving him a fuller personality. Though maybe I haven't seen him around enough to make that call.

He's 26, actually, but I get your point. I sorta-justify it with Mathieu in that that's ALL the shadow magic he uses (crippling over-specialization) and he's been reading, studying and practicing it since he was in he pre-teens, but I can get where you're coming from. On the flip side, I've never actually RPed a mind-melding session with him yet, so... I can make him fail hard at actual application of his talents. Actually, IC I don't think he's ever actually applied his studies to practice, so this could be a direction to take him in.

As for a cariacture... that's in part because of his origins as a character. He's my second oldest still-relevent character ever, after Hrodebert. He's always been Hrod's son, he's always been a huge man-child, and for the most part he's always been psychic too. His personality heavily borrows from my own when I was around 13-18 years old, as well. (So now you have more reasons to be ashamed of me for!)

Anyways, you take all the elements of Matty-boy as an OC and put it on an elf, and yeah I can see where you're coming from, and really this is exactly what I'm aiming to avoiiiiiid. I have been doing more to make him mature up some (drinking games, going out more on his own), but I suppose I have more work to do! I want to keep his happy-go-lucky nature, though. He's meant to be that incorruptible pure person/idiot hippie. I'll work harder >:V

You seem to invade roleplay at times. I understand everyone wants to roleplay, but they jump into things, and it seems like you play them as heroes. However... I'll get to that.

REQUESTING ELABORATION. Mostly on the INVADE RP part. The hero part I'm more aware of, given I mostly do it on purpose. But I'll get to that later, too!

See, my major issue is that you play your characters as badass, manly heroes. You describe your characters as this practically. They're all stubborn personality-wise, but that's not what I'm focusing on. You're forcing their badassery, and you're forcing their heroics. It feels like they are these things because you say they are. They don't really lose. Like sure, they might lose a fight, but they're never really seriously bothered. I haven't seen one of your characters really lose. A strong character, to me, loses. And not just a 'blast, I lost, time to do better next time'. But a serious loss which changes the character.

... hm. May I ask which specific characters you're referring to? Because what you say is exactly true... to a degree, depending on how recently you RPed with which character!

Cristovao was originally this, and goood he was shamelessly so. He was intended to be a warrior-poet hero, a real staple golden boy I could take anywhere and do anything with. This would have been fine and dandy if I could've done it right..... but I didn't. Anyway, modern day Cristovao is more of a deconstruction of paladin and hero types. He's emotionally unstable, clingy to the things he swears to protect, and suffers a self imposed sense of moral complications. He loses fights, he loses arguments, hell, he hates himself somewhat because he ended up -agreeing- with a Forsaken over the nature of Lordaeron.

Hrodebert is a bit more typical badass-manly, but he initially started the opposite as a more soft-spoken sort of dwarf. This didn't contrast well with Jami's personality (who was also soft-spoken), and to boot he was initially very afraid of his marriage being found out. Now I can see why people would appreciate this, as the drama is realistic and unique, and to be fair I haven't abandoned it entirely in Hrod's development, but I will say it got to be burdensome and wasn't fun. Now Hrod is more "can't care less" when in neutral areas, but still keeps his marriage secretive when around less savory Alliance types. He's gung-ho and full of adventure now, with his family's interests most at heart. Perhaps this is more shallow, but he's a lot more fun. I really didn't enjoy the endless drama from before.

Madugo is a pacifist and a hippie and anything but a gung ho hero manly guy. Most of his "manly boasts" come from light-hearted jabs at how many kids he has. Fertility machismo and all that.

Aryeon is a bit more shameless and unchanged from his conception. Another old OC converted to WoW, he's remained the neutral-minded, wise and righteous holy-rolling heroic "Gandalf" of sorts. I wish to keep him that way, however, though he'll get more depth whenever me and Immy get to updating Song of the Sun.

Du'guro is manly, but he's the ball-scratching never showering rugged jerkass kind. He's also hateful and spiteful and not heroic in the least.

Hercynian is lazy, unmotivated, and a neglectful father played for laughs. Not much else to say on his accord... though he does have a rugged beard.

Gantrithor, I'll admit, IS the super-manly-fears-nothing-macho-guy. This was intentional, as he's supposed to be a full out headstrong and bold heroic warrior. The guy who throws himself on grenades for you. I could maybe work on making him more down to earth, but I'm unsure where to start.

Mathieu is childish and whiny, but plenty heroic in his own right. I want to develop him in the direction of the hero whose utterly terrified of what he's facing but goes through with it anyway. We'll see with him.

Maeia is in fact a woman, not a man. She's also my quietest, meekest character.

Medrod is cowardly and decietful. He's also my only villain!

Langobard is... vaguely defined so I really don't have much to say on him.

This likely stems from you not really partaking in scenarios where your character is really in danger. They don't seem to feel fear. Or even fear for themselves. They... come off as fearless. Which is something I don't like in a character, believe it or not. Someone who does not feel fear is not interesting to me. It takes away a lot of suspense, unless this fearlessness is actually used in an interesting way.

I certainly agree. I play my characters's fears to varying lengths and degrees. I'd say only maybe Gantrithor or possibly Aryeon are truly fearless by any stretch of the word (with more emphasis on Gantrithor since he's my gung-hoest of them all). I think he's fun in that regard, some, but I digress.

Without your characters feeling fear, they can't be brave. Without being brave, they can't be heroes. Maybe you are roleplaying them as being brave, but let it show that they're afraid. Sure, they can try to hide it ICly. But let us know that they're mortals too. Give us a sign that they're pushing through personal stress and fears, instead of just treating everything like one big adventure. Don't have them tell us they're afraid, have them be afraid. Show it through emotes. Maybe a man's hands shiver, or he breaks into a cold sweat. His eyes widen slightly and affix themselves to whatever sight avails him so. His breaths could become heavy, there's a plethora of things you can do. Give it a whirl.

Which brings us to here!

As a matter of fact, I have begun doing these sorts of things! Mostly with Cristovao ('cos I enjoy tormenting him.), but with others too, mostly my less-manly characters (Maeia, Mathieu). You're right, those little details do count up, and I should place my characters in more fearful situations.

THANK YOU FOR THE SPLENDID FEEDBACK SIR XIGO I WISH YOU WELL IN YOUR FEEDBACK TRAVELS.

[c0rzilla]

Hey, my feedback turn!

Cristovao
The more I think about Cristovao, the more I'm confused as to why he can still use the Light.

Everybody and their mother (mostly Anna) has told Cristovao about the mistakes he's making, and he keeps making them. The biggest is working under/with/by/for/whatever a certain warlock with a penchant for eating lifeforces to extend his own.

How can Cristovao work with this man and keep the Light? How? When a number of people have told him "dude, he cray".

You might bring up how Annabelle works beside a number of shady folk. The difference (from my view) is when Anna finds out what they're doing/have done she will do one or more of the following:

• Drop them like so many bricks after a lecture/verbal soul crushing.
  
  
• Attempt to reform.
  
  
• Achieve a balance like she did with Ralerian, Therai or Aroes.
  
  
• In extreme cases, kill.

As well, priests are not restricted to such a strict code of ethics as paladins are.

I do not see Cristovao doing any of what I listed. What I do see Cristovao doing is weakly legitimizing/rationalizing his actions/thoughts and putting off a decision he knows is the right thing to do. You seem to be sticking around for "cool" RP, while sacrificing IC legitimacy.

In my view of paladins, he should not be able to use the Light after all of this. Please elaborate on why you think he should. You're a good buddy OOCly, your characters are fun, but this is making all kinds of nonsense. To me.

[CappnRob]

Hey, my feedback turn!

Cristovao
The more I think about Cristovao, the more I'm confused as to why he can still use the Light.

Everybody and their mother (mostly Anna) has told Cristovao about the mistakes he's making, and he keeps making them. The biggest is working under/with/by/for/whatever a certain warlock with a penchant for eating lifeforces to extend his own.

How can Cristovao work with this man and keep the Light? How? When a number of people have told him "dude, he cray".

You might bring up how Annabelle works beside a number of shady folk. The difference (from my view) is when Anna finds out what they're doing/have done she will do one or more of the following:

• Drop them like so many bricks after a lecture/verbal soul crushing.
  
  
• Attempt to reform.
  
  
• Achieve a balance like she did with Ralerian, Therai or Aroes.
  
  
• In extreme cases, kill.

As well, priests are not restricted to such a strict code of ethics as paladins are.

I do not see Cristovao doing any of what I listed. What I do see Cristovao doing is weakly legitimizing/rationalizing his actions/thoughts and putting off a decision he knows is the right thing to do. You seem to be sticking around for "cool" RP, while sacrificing IC legitimacy.

In my view of paladins, he should not be able to use the Light after all of this. Please elaborate on why you think he should. You're a good buddy OOCly, your characters are fun, but this is making all kinds of nonsense. To me.

Actually, Anna is more or less the only one who has, IC, told Cristovao the evils of said warlock. Beyond that... he's actually yet to -see- anything evil come from the Whiteshore gang. The life-sucking magic thing he justifies in his mind by putting it to use on criminals, highwaymen, and whatnot (aka 90% of any humanoid NPC mob you fight in the game). I was goooooing to express this with his IC thread but I've been bad and not updating it. His rationalization would have been comparing it to paladins in the Scarlet Crusade - Light can be used for misdeeds, dark magic can be used for a greater purpose (in this case using it on "badguys" instead of victimizing the innocents). By this, Cristovao is convincing himself that he isn't helping HEINOUS ACTS because they're not being used for HEINOUS PURPOSES.

However, as he gets more involved with Whiteshore and becomes more aware first hand of its reputation, he'll either try to be an idiot hero and steer said warlock to the PATH OF GOOD or outright leave (and probably get himself killed/maimed for it). Until then, its Anna's warnings VS his experiences + Tavren's words + his own self-made justifications fueled by fear of losing Diwaata.

That said, I have considered him losing the Light, and it is a possibility. Cristovao just has to willingly commit an act that he knows is wrong. Personally I'd hope he gets a story resolution before that comes to pass, because losing the Light would reaaaaaaally mess him up. Like, more than all the other stuff I torture him with already!

[Ural]

Dear Cap,

Get on Hercy more. Change your Avatar and Signature.

Love, Ural

[CappnRob]

I've been meaning to change my avatar and sig, I just haven't found good replacements.

[ImagenAshyun]

After some thought, and an epiphany of sorts, I feel I must place a little criticism in which I could not mention to you before because it just never came to mind then.


I know the differences between your males. I got it. Cristovao is flawed but heroic, though he tries. Madugo is fairly passive and a bit of a pervert. Gantrithor is MANLINESS INCARNATE. Hrodebert is an ADVENTURIN' GUN-TOTING COUNTRY BOY. Etc., etc.. But... thinking about it. Of all your characters nowadays, and removing all biases due to the fact that we're a couple... the most compelling character of yours?





It's Maeia. Your weak and sheepish female.


I never noticed it before until I played the compare-and-contrast game with your males. With possibly the sole exception in Mathieu, your males are just variations of the same exact archetype: the manly hero. Even Aryeon has shades of this, though I appreciate the fact that he has been stepping back some as far as action goes.

I really didn't know or think about this until I told you how Aimee became my first fun female solo character. There are other issues I have with RP with you, but that's something I'd rather reserve privately.


TLDR, your characters all feel the same. I know your archetypes, but I can only count 2: the hero or the supporting a**hole. One of the main reasons I looked forward to you rolling Alais and Heleen is because those two ladies are so different from your archetypes, and not only because they're female. It'd be nice if you can at least try to RP other character archetypes besides heroes.


ALSO: I would hope you would be more open to RPing with me like I'm a platonic friend or complete stranger. I love Dia, Asul'na, and Jami, but I wanna RP them when I wanna RP them. If I'm in the mood to RP with you as Stefano, Kapre, Aimee, Tibalan, etc., it'd be nice if you'd be more open to that. Forcing RP and enforcing RP are two entirely different things. I am already kind enough to let you RP the characters you want to RP or not RP when you don't want to. But for once, I wish you can consider what I want to RP. To be frank, the RP with Cristovao and Kapre opening up as bros was perhaps the first ever RP we did in which I'm on a character I want that benefitted both of us that did not involve Diwaata at all. More of that would be great, with any of your characters and any characters I want to RP as.

This all does not apply to Aryeon and Urameil RP, though. I love that unconditionally because it's lulzy as hell.



Anyway, that's all I gotta say. I don't want a discussion in you defending yourself here in the forums, however. I want to reserve that for Skype.

[Xigo]

Men can roleplay women properly, and women can roleplay men properly. You don't need to be a man to roleplay a man. And you don't need to be a woman to roleplay a woman. Otherwise literature would be boring because works of writing would be entirely composed of one gender or the other. Sure, I might not ever know the pains that come with being a woman. But I can research things, and get pretty damn close to being accurate.

Besides, it's not like having a pair of chest leaches completely changes your personality. They don't suddenly make you caring and compassionate and feminine. It's how you're raised that determines your personality. Yes, women tend to be feminine in our society because they get pink princes dolls and pink bows and toy babies with carriages that they need to mother and guys get action figures. But you seriously need to just consider a character's past to get the right personality. Gender might play a role in this, but it doesn't have to.

Don't think I'm dismissing the idea of feminine characters. I'm not. But a female character who is a princess is loving and snuggly and caring and naive is no less or more a woman than a female character who grew up in an arena and had to fight tooth and nail for every moment of her life. Just as much as a male character who is a noble who grew up in the finest of conditions and never held a weapon in his life is no more or less a man than Macho Man Randy Savage.

You should not define characters by 'this is what a man is' or 'this is what a woman is'. All of your characters follow this definition you seem to have created of men having to be heroic, tough, brave, selfless, and they rarely break this archetype, which I said before in my previous feedback post. Women do not need to be meek, reliant on the men, and without their own drives. They can be just as strong, if not stronger than male characters. Deviate from your established archetypes, and you'll improve as a writer.

Also, it becomes a bit rough to roleplay with Immy once you enter the RP. Any roleplay you seem to enter with her results in you taking complete control or at least a very prominent position in the RP. This only really happens when she's roleplaying her females, in which I feel as though you're trying to push other people away from roleplaying with them. And a lot of the characters you two have seem to have forced relationships, ones that don't really make too much sense, but exist because you say so.

[CappnRob]

I'm only going to address the last part of that post because the 'Manly characters" issue is a beaten-to-death topic I have already worked on resolving and by and large stems from the fact my four most RPed characters just happen to be outgoing males (Cristo, Gant, Ary, and Hrod). Mathieu is a childish teenager, Hercynian is... a tree, and Maeia is a woman. Du'guro is manly, but he's the gross unflattering asshole kind.

I also have many female characters, they just aren't on CotH.

AS FOR THIS

Also, it becomes a bit rough to roleplay with Immy once you enter the RP. Any roleplay you seem to enter with her results in you taking complete control or at least a very prominent position in the RP. This only really happens when she's roleplaying her females, in which I feel as though you're trying to push other people away from roleplaying with them. And a lot of the characters you two have seem to have forced relationships, ones that don't really make too much sense, but exist because you say so.

You'll honestly have to talk to Immy about this because I do not exert or enforce some kind of "RP obedience ray" onto her when I enter a scene. I just RP as is, though naturally characters in relationships will gravitate toward each other more often than no. As for the relationships themselves, there's just two: Cristo+Diwataa, and Hrod+Jami. Both of these were discussed at length OOC and as far as I know, aren't just around because I said so. We collaborate together on everything, and have done so for many years in various works of writing, long before CotH.

[Grakor456]

I don't generally post feedback unless I have a critique to give. I feel that praise alone can serve to improve one's mood, but that isn't true feedback, so I'd rather not give feedback unless I have something negative to say. That said, I also like to say positive things as well, because I honestly don't enjoy telling people that they're doing things wrong. Even now, I'm debating whether I should even be writing this.

This is compounded by the fact that...frankly, I can't think of much positive to say in this thread. Perhaps that's due to the relative lack of contact we've had, but everything I've seen has mostly just raised my need to say what I'm going to say here. So...hopefully you don't take this too personally.

I'm going to quote two people that came before, for emphasis:

See, my major issue is that you play your characters as badass, manly heroes. You describe your characters as this practically.

<snip>

Without your characters feeling fear, they can't be brave. Without being brave, they can't be heroes.

TLDR, your characters all feel the same. I know your archetypes, but I can only count 2: the hero or the supporting a**hole.

Every time I see you, your characters feel too alike. Yes, they're different races, and yes there are personality differences between them, but they're all based on the same archetype. I know this can seem hypocritical for me to say, as most of my characters can be classified as "manly heroes" to some extent. However, I feel that the difference (and others can disagree if they wish) is that I try to bring my characters forth as *characters* first and foremost. Thragash is the jovial guy who's never met a stranger, Balgarn is the stoic soldier seeking absolution, Gunnar is the overly polite guardsman. The fact that they're "heroes" is incidental to the fact that they try to do good when they can, that's not central to their characters. Instead, it feels like your characters are heroes first and foremost, and it dominates their characters and makes them all blend in together. Frankly, "manly hero" is so overdone that it's the least interesting thing about the characters described as such.

This brings me to Gantrithor and his performance in Skin Thieves 2. I'm going to say this when it comes to "brave" characters...I have something of a test that I do with characters who can be described as brave. I think about the character, and think about the setting we're in, a setting with monsters and deadly weapons and evil people trying to kill you all the time. If I think if the character would have gotten himself killed due to his bravery, then he most likely already would have and shouldn't exist. Gantrithor not only crosses this line, he sprinted across it and kept running. If you want to know why you were one of only two people to have to actually be threatened with a CW by the event DMs, that's why. There's a point where bravery stops being bravery and goes into just plain stupidity. That Gantrithor is a draenei, a quite long-lived species who are supposed to be wise, makes this more puzzling. I simply can't imagine how this character would even come into being with these facts in mind.

I will say two parting comments. First, you asked three times about getting another character in and we told you no each time. Please learn when "no" is "no." Second, when Rigley was starting some monster attacks and you actually asked in raid if it could be delayed for 30 minutes? Events have been going on near constantly in that event. I, frankly, found that request to be rather selfish.

Hopefully this won't be seen as a vicious attack, as I don't intend it as such. I'm sorry for this.

[CappnRob]

For Gantrithor, he danced through the revolving Skin Thief door reaaaaaaally bad on day 3, and I won't deny that. I honestly really fumbled him up there, along with some bad timing. Two times the Wrath mob spawned literally behind me when I was trying to make Gantrithor turn around and run away... which made him look like he was charging headfirst at it instead of fleeing which I intended. The only time he actually bullrushed Wrath was when the Statue had grabbed hold of Flora, and that was intentional, and I was fully prepared for Gantrithor to face the consequences of doing so. He had never seen these things before and every other problem he's had in life he's been able to solve by hitting it with his sword. After that day, he avoided Wrath entirely then on out because he knew he couldn't hurt it, which contributed to his development because holy crap, he can't solve all his problems with force of arms.

There was the outburt he had when Kroldul yelled out in Eredun, which... was honestly poorly thought out considering he was a Skin Thief at the time but I guess I got caught up in all the excitement 8| That one was plenty stupid.

For the rest of the event, Gan spent most of the time being weak and sick and feeling like a waste of space. I used this to inch his development along to realize that not only is he foolish, but there is more to facing evil than whacking it with a sword. I think this was achieved to great effect, especially considering his personal experience with Judgement (which I loved and felt went above and beyond what I ever wanted for him), has really started to put him on the right track.

AS FOR THE PARTING COMMENTS

I apologize for the repeated asking to let Cristovao in. As the event went on (especially towards the end), I can see why multiboxing would be detrimental and selfish, and should have left the issue be the first time. I was just super excited about all the character development potential the event could give, it clouded my better judgement.

As for the asking for the event delay, I apologize for that, too. I was being barked out OOC to do something all of a sudden, and it happened RIGHT when the event was occuring, which allowed my attitude to slip up. Worst of all, I ended up not having to brb at all, so I didn't even miss the event, so I really feel like a heel for that. Sorry.

No hard feelings, Grak! Swords are tempered through fire, and all!

[CrypticOcean]

So, of course, I am here quite late, writer's block on trying to fix Krol'dul's many problems and what have you. Since I had a lot of direct experience with Gan, I figured I could provide you with some critique on him, as I am an aspiring writer myself.

I will not touch upon what others have said about him before, because they have already stated it rather well. I myself made mistakes with Krol'dul in the same event with making him far too fluent in Eredun, so I myself can take blame off of you for Gan acting how he did. It was a series of mistakes that we both shall rectify.

Firstly, I feel that even when Gan was being laid low by the blows of supernatural horrors, too much effort was put into trying to make him seem physically unable to be harmed. I do not think a cold constitutes as a sign of physical weakness, especially since he is able to justify himself and build himself up by (nearly) overcoming it at some point in the tavern, giving himself a big pat on the back for his peerless willpower. When the Commander used his supernatural knee of justice, it was a bit ridiculous that somehow his armour made him completely immune to it until the blow was applied upon his bare head. Even the thickest of armour made of impenetrable materials can feel impact and pain. In fact, blunt force is the most effective against plate mail, which is why many who combated heavily armoured foes used maces and hammers. The fact that it just had to be mentioned that the Commander's knee did nothing, I feel, was being a bit too protective of the character's "manliness".

It's perfectly alright for big, burly, brave warriors who doesn't afraid of anything to get the crap beaten out of them, even by opponents they would be able to hack to death (since we did not have the luxury of doing so to the Commander). Danger and vulnerability makes it all of the more awesome when the character, beaten and bloodied, delivers the final blow to a worthy foe who may have been defeating or hounding him for as little as minutes, to years of conflict. The way he just "ate" Krol'dul's massive shadow-blast from complete surprise during our little hiccup moment was boarderline god-modding, even if Draenei are a bit shadow-resistant. A tough guy shouldn't be physically unable to be harmed. A tough guy still reacts to damage and shows wear and tear, but pushes through it anyway.

I actually think Gan has a lot of room to grow if you can apply everyone's critique as well as you take it. I cannot speak for any of your other characters, but as everyone has said repeatedly, good characters all have noticeable, definable weaknesses. When they foolhardily charge into danger, they shouldn't always succeed in a flurry of bloodshed and glory, regardless of how powerful you feel they should be. Sometimes they should get their butts handed to them on a platter. Sometimes they should earn victory only through great sacrifice.

Grom Hellscream was a supremely manly and foolhardy Orc, and just look at how many times he gets smacked down. Sure, he can kill a demi-god when high on demon-blood, but when he charges into the fray, he doesn't always come out on top. Sometimes he ends up in a cage with wounded pride, or bathed in demon-fire and dying. It's what made him interesting. He was a fantastic warrior, but he wasn't unstoppable, and even when he won, sometimes, he still "lost".

Minor grammatical pet-peeve that has nothing to do with Gan. ?! usually suits better for an intense or surprised question rather than ????.

Hopefully this doesn't sound too pretentious or directionless. I actually wanted to bring this up a while ago, but just never got around to it. Not to mention my mind is dazed from a weird sleeping schedule, so forgive any grammatical or spelling errors, or nonsensical/hypocritical statements.

[CappnRob]

Yay, more feedback! I know Gan caused a lot of problems in ST2, so hopefully by addressing all these, I can disspell some of the bad taste he's left.

Firstly, I feel that even when Gan was being laid low by the blows of supernatural horrors, too much effort was put into trying to make him seem physically unable to be harmed.

I'll just get this out of the way and say this was not my intent at all. I purposefully stuck Gantrithor in Skin Thieves 2 because I wanted to break his perceptions of physical immunity being all he needs to get by in the world. With that out of the way...

I do not think a cold constitutes as a sign of physical weakness, especially since he is able to justify himself and build himself up by (nearly) overcoming it at some point in the tavern, giving himself a big pat on the back for his peerless willpower.

This... was also not what I intended. The original idea is Gantrithor comes down with a cold, then because he -thinks- he can overcome it with sheer will alone, gradually becomes worse and worse off, to the point of having delirious hallucinations because he's being a huge dumbass and not resting. Sadly, this never came to fruition for a couple of reasons. Reason 1 was my own bad timing with his symptoms, I dragged them out too long between escalations. Reason 2 being ST2 was shortened by a day to end early. Reason 3 was Gantrithor's personal experience with Judgement pretty much left him emotionally broken so for the greater part of the last few days of ST2 he just curled up in a bed and slept so he could feel sorry for himself (OOCly, I was tied up those days and couldn't RP, pft). Because of these reasons, he ended up recovering from his fever before I could get the best use of it. He didn't pat himself on the back, though, he admitted to I think Orvisha that he needed rest and that's what helped him. I think. EITHER WAY.

When the Commander used his supernatural knee of justice, it was a bit ridiculous that somehow his armour made him completely immune to it until the blow was applied upon his bare head. Even the thickest of armour made of impenetrable materials can feel impact and pain. In fact, blunt force is the most effective against plate mail, which is why many who combated heavily armoured foes used maces and hammers. The fact that it just had to be mentioned that the Commander's knee did nothing, I feel, was being a bit too protective of the character's "manliness".

This... hm. I see what you're saying, and you're mostly right here (though I did have Gan get the wind knocked out of him and belt over from the knee, so it wasn't a totally ineffective attack. I didn't really grasp the supernatural strength of the Commander at the time, either, so herpderp on my behalf). In Gantrithor's armor's defense, it is made of Adamantite, but I'm not gonna wave that around and hide behind it, this was more or less me screwing up. Really, I screwed up a lot that day, especially towards the end (I feel especially stupid about the Eredun outburst... thing). But it was more me being a derp than being protective, if that means anything.

I actually think Gan has a lot of room to grow if you can apply everyone's critique as well as you take it. I cannot speak for any of your other characters, but as everyone has said repeatedly, good characters all have noticeable, definable weaknesses. When they foolhardily charge into danger, they shouldn't always succeed in a flurry of bloodshed and glory, regardless of how powerful you feel they should be. Sometimes they should get their butts handed to them on a platter. Sometimes they should earn victory only through great sacrifice.

I actually fully embrace this. I enjoy knocking my character's on their asses. Specifically, I had Gan in ST2 because I knew he would foolhardily charge into danger, and it would beat the crap out of him.

Minor grammatical pet-peeve that has nothing to do with Gan. ?! usually suits better for an intense or surprised question rather than ????.

Yeah, other people nagged me about this too, and I've done shaped up on it. Pft!

Hopefully this doesn't sound too pretentious or directionless. I actually wanted to bring this up a while ago, but just never got around to it. Not to mention my mind is dazed from a weird sleeping schedule, so forgive any grammatical or spelling errors, or nonsensical/hypocritical statements.

WHY DOES EVERYONE APOLOGIZE WHEN THEY FEEDBACK ME

On a more serious, less allcaps note, no worries! I'm pretty thick skinned, you'd really have to try hard to upset me with some feedback! I liked what you pointed out. Have a good one!

EDIT BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE

Because I am stupid and missed this:

The way he just "ate" Krol'dul's massive shadow-blast from complete surprise during our little hiccup moment was boarderline god-modding, even if Draenei are a bit shadow-resistant. A tough guy shouldn't be physically unable to be harmed. A tough guy still reacts to damage and shows wear and tear, but pushes through it anyway.

Yeah that was just stupid of me and while I wasn't intentionally trying to god-mod that whole part of the RP was the pinnacle of me sucking hard ass on that specific day of ST2. Easily the worst RPing I've done in years and I would retcon 80% of what I did that day if I could because it just was that bad. Pft!

[c0rzilla]

you'd really have to try hard to upset me with some feedback!

Spoiler:

For Gantri; He's kind and open-minded, so much that he doesn't hold a prejudice against even the Orcs. Not to say this is a bad thing, but from reading his profile, he even went as far as to give up the Light, because of the Orcs, in a way.
I'd simply say try and throw in some elements of his past which creep up on him and change him a bit socially. Especially now with Skin Thieves done, you could even add some fear lingering from that; Gantri's impression of himself is fearless, and knowing he is genuinely scared could create some inner turmoil which could really jump out in RP. Just a random idea.

I should post the logs of Gantrithor's recent emotional outburst to Orvisha.