06-30-2012, 03:32 PM (This post was last modified: 06-30-2012, 03:45 PM by Micheru.)
I DO remember telling you that I didn't like your idea when I had just made Locke, but it was because /you/ /tell'd me out of the blue with "Hey! Join my guild and get a bike!". And you did so like.. six seconds after I had made the character. Now my main is an engineer who rides a motorcycle, but I understand how pricy a motorcycle in Azeroth is - and Micheru's got backing as to his.
My issue was more with how it seemed like you were just.. throwing them at people indiscriminately, without IC reason. I later read about your guild on the forums and.. Honestly it's not my 'bag', but I'm a little less... teeth on edge?.. about it.
Edit: Rob, you've got to tell me what you used to make your gang outfits with. Haven't seen anything like a cutoff on World of Wardrobes.
Of course fantasy doesn't mean just do what you want anything goes. But we aren't talking about that. We are talking about the fact that many things are frowned upon because of the low level of realism. Everyone has their mindset in more of a medieval setting, rather than a fantasy setting. People seem to think "They use swords and shields so anything that is modern doesn't belong." Thing is it's steampunk/magic fantasy. Technology is rather high for it's time in this universe.
To say that his guild is a joke simply because it is based off of a modern idea is pretty close-minded. And there is a lot of that lately on the server. People are falling into the idea that fantasy is simply medieval style with magic. AkA King Aurther and Merlin style.
But that's not the kind of fantasy Warcraft is.
Quote: "Jokester" or "Comedic relief" characters can be a nuisance in the sense that they break immersion into serious themes and RP that has accumulated over time.
Know what is even more of a nuisance? Writing off... and completely not accepting the ideas that others want to RP simply because of your own personal opinion against said idea. He wants a biker gang? Why do people have to go around and talk about him behind his back, or even directly talk down to him about it to his face?
If you really hate an idea that bad then ignore it. Don't get involved with it. Because know what? There are people who WILL accept the idea and actually like/want it.
So to the people who Sunthas mentioned have directly told him his characters/ideas are jokes.
Who are you to push your negative opinions on others, and to attempt to remove a RP idea from the server simply because your personal opinion is against it?
Now as to your characters being serious. I remember a time my mage and a gnome were talking about something or other. You were on your forsaken... the leader of AWR that is, and were trying to use mind tricks on them. You didn't really ask or anything you just put up an emote saying:
"Khris? attempts to speak into her mind. A shadowy voice says, "He is just trying to get you out of the Bay. He plans to kill you!" Roll 30+ to resist!"
Well... it seemed as if you were trying to force your character into the situation. Not only that, but pretty much attacking our characters as you constantly after that attempted multiple times.
I don't remember the exact details, but my mage was trying to get help from the other guy. However in the situation itself we weren't even able to finish that RP which would have led to other RPs, because you wouldn't stop until you had turned the two against each other. That is what I think people mean when they say your characters are trolls. You shove them into the situation and then the characters become very negative IC.
Also your characters, specifically Khris? can be overboard in the amount of vulgarity they bring. I mean sure it's allowed in RP because it's just IC. But honestly I don't want to have to sit there in the arena after my characters mate just lost a battle, and listen to him talk about how he should chain her up to his bike, take her off into the forest and rape her.
Rape isn't an acceptable topic for anything as far as I am concerned, even IC. And that specific character spouts out curse words like a fountain. And this makes the RP turn sour very quickly when you have such a completely disrespectful character with no regards to any sort of consequences.
As it's been said... I think you would be taken more seriously if you just put some stronger limits on what your characters will do. Don't force them into RP and perhaps tone down the vulgarity some of them may bring.
I'm not saying that he may do everything amazingly, but as far as possibilities are concerned, warcraft is rather open. It just... Shouldn't be taken so seriously, I guess.
Well, I think the only role-play I engaged with you was at Hearthglen. I was on Noria, and you were on a gnome(I cannot recall the name). Before then, Noria and others had a nice, quiet, polite conversation going on. Small talk, sure, but I enjoy little things like that! Then all of a sudden, a gnome marches it, begins to walk on tables and asking/saying the oddest questions and comments. It really made me want to leave the RP because it was outrageous and completely killed my writing mood. I like to immersion(I think?), my OOC mindset locked into my character so I can give the best emotes and dialog possible.
That doesn't hold up when things like that happen. And with my limited time that I can devout to RP, it really does effect me in IC and OOC! So, what I suggest is that if you wish to play a humorous, wild, weird character... Be mindful of the RP setting. If there's a drinking contest or other people acting rowdy, go ahead and join along. But if characters are in a meaningful and serious discussion/event... Try to respect them, eh?
I like to have laughs. I really do. But more often than not, I enjoy serious and hardcore role play. I Stumble for lolz.
My first character on this server was a complete "joke character". The whole idea behind him was that he was a parody of the shonnen-style protagonist who wanted to be the hero but wasn't ever good at anything. Somehow, people rolled with it, and he ended up being a Ratchet-white addicted drug addict with a quick trigger finger. My other characters are also molded in the same way. Comedic, off-center, non-traditional. I don't think I've ever played a "normal" version of X ever ("normal" human, "normal" orc, "normal" gnome, etc etc). I always joke to myself that Rofupi should've been born an Orc, Corlmitz should've been born a goblin, and "Dangerous Dan" Legaro was the only one who 'got it right'.
Now, I'm not going to make any judgements against you because I don't think we've interacted at all. We might have, but I was ignorant to it. One of my main vices is that, normally, when I RP I have no idea who I'm interacting with. Zero. None. I avoid looking up people's characters on the wiki to identify the user behind them. I do this intentionally because I don't want my OOC feelings getting in the way of whatever character is in front of me. Plus, I wanna find out my info from the character in-game, not from a wiki article. Whatever history they have is something I want my character to find out, gradually. This leads to TONS of awkward situations where people are like "Hey Krent!" and I'm like "Hey!" and they start talking to me OOC'ly about stuff and I'm all like I HAVE NO IDEA WHO THIS PERSON IS. Especially since all my friends tend to be Altoholics and have like 34631246324724572346234513512 characters per account.
The point is we might have RP'd and I don't remember it because I'm a terrible person.
Anyway! I don't think I need to say anything about OOC hate and rumor mongering. If people are doing it, they should stop. But it does happen. I do it myself, usually when I'm stressed out or see something way ridiculous. Or I have a bad experience with someone and need a passive-aggressive way to take out my anger. I'm pretty sure other people do it to. So, therefore its hypocritical of me to tell others to stop. I mean, I will, but know to take it with a grain of salt.
As far as "comedy" and "outrageous" characters go...its a hard subject to talk about. I've RP'd in that vein my entire existence, and can never classify any of them as "comedic" or "serious". My characters have a mix of the two. Take Rofupi, for example. In his latest iteration, he's a slightly-touched-in-the-head rune master trying to better his kung-fu. He's a very odd gnome, in a way I can't rightly describe. A lot of him is based off of the characters Jet-Li usually plays, during the parts where they have a mental breakdown (The Tai-Chi Master, Fearless, Unleashed, etc). But, that comedic bent is balanced out by the fact that he's that way due to a long, hard life of drug-abuse, violence, and homelessness. So, there's a seriousness to balance that out.
Which I think is key in playing any character. Balance. No character can ever veer in one direction or another. While many people don't point them out as often, I find "Tragedy Magnet" characters just as eye-rolley as "Joke" ones. Ya know the types. The ones who exist to one-up whatever sad topic there is.
"I lost my parents in the First War. Orcs butchered 'em dead..."
"Oh yeah? Well, I was kidnapped by bandits, who were secretly warlocks. I sat back and watched my mother get skinned alive. And then I was forced to wear her skin. And then I was forced to kill my dad, slowly, with a knife. When I escaped, I stubbed my toe. It hurt."
So, what the hell was I trying to say? Yes. Balance. I don't think we need to debate on what's "possible" and "not-realistic" in a fantasy setting. I think the challenge we have as RP'rs is to think of the most ridiculous bullshit we can imagine, and then try to find a way to make it work. That's what I did with Rofupi. You wanna know how I came up with Rofupi? I was playing Street Fighter one day and said "Man, what if Ryu was a gnome? That'd be pretty funny." And then in his second iteration, I was going through gnome hair-styles, and I noticed one of them was a mohawk. Which I then used as the basis for a whole other new character.
That's it, really. No brilliant flash of insight or planning there. Start with something simple, ridiculous, then try to find a way to make it work. And the best way to do that is to balance it. Yes, balance. Balance it all out.
So maybe that can be some advice I can pass on? I dunno. I never know what I'm talking about when I post. And somehow, everyone tends to like me. Don't really know what that's all about, either. Sometimes I think people like my posts without ever reading them. Not that I can blame 'em on that, as I tend to type waaaaaaaaay too much. I wouldn't read all the ridiculous stuff I say in my posts. Why should anyone else?
So in conclusion, I don't think you're a bad person Sun. Things may suck right now, and people may be being bad to you right now, but if you keep on and dedicate yourself, I'm sure things'll improve. Take in advice, learn from every mistake you make. Be both willing to improve and deflect any unnecessary hate/spite. Don't let people bring you down, but always be willing to rise above.
To be quite honest, I think you need to lighten up about the situation! Every community has, forgive my French, assholes. You just have to learn to ignore them; I can only think of 3 people on CoTH that would even THINK of calling a character a joke, and those are some of the most serious people I've ever met on a video game. Relax and shake it off! Fantasy is, as you said, unlimited; your imagination is the limit. Hell, you could find a way to fit flying cars into WoW and it would be accepted if it had slight reasoning.
Not quite a flying car, but it's more or less something similar (A motorized hunk of metal that flies). Don't be so, let's say, obtuse with the way you disagree with people please. While I'm in this thread I suppose I should post something relevant.
Personally I was cautious of you, random encounters with you in Hearthglen where you got on one Gnome to violently curse at someone then alt hopped to another Gnome to talk about the violent cursing Gnome was, frankly, obnoxious. But you were new to the server then, so you're forgiven. Now recently I RPed with you on my character Geezle in the form of a mini event, as you may recall. I appreciated you there, I felt Bingles was not being a silly joke character like your characters have been proclaimed.
Now on the biker gang guild; I frankly dislike it. I did the whole biker thing for awhile on Geezle, the bike is cool and all. I grew to dislike it as I saw more and more people getting choppers, eventually characters that weren't even engineers were getting and things felt very much like retail when you would walk down the street and see three people with a chopper. One of the main problems I have with the guild is that in the Warcraft setting bikes are either crafted by their owners or purchased by extremely wealthy people (or extremely lucky people at auctions, hurr). It just seems to me that if you had the know how to build complex machinery you would go around building more and selling them rather than building some for your friends and being a total thug a-hole. I suppose the nature of the lore of both engineering and the chopper are both iffy, seeing as how one was made as a joke item by Blizzard (hint: it has the word PWN on it) so it's really up to interpretation. I'd just hope I could help explain what could be the thoughts of many who dislike the idea of a biker guild because CoTH isn't a community of jerks who shoot down ideas for no reason.
Kindle and I had this discussion on Geezle. While I agree with him that a guild is a BIT overdone, it can be used sparingly in some cases. (not much at all, I see where you're coming from SunThas)
I'm sure others have already made these points but eh, this is also not directed at anyone in specific.
It seems that some on this server are only happy with their ideas and any idea that is in the same category of their own. If someone decides to think out of the box what's the problem with that? If it really bothers you then tough luck, those who decided to poke holes at Sunthas' idea should realise others would have found problems in their ideas as well. The only difference is they were mature enough to understand that the person came up with the idea to find enjoyment and that it wouldn't be fair to blatantly say. "I don't agree with your idea, therefore it's completely invalid." If you don't agree with it, tough luck, it's obviously not your cup of tea.
I joined this server for RP and to enjoy myself, some of the most gratifying moments on this server is coming up with new ideas to spice up RP for people around you and for yourself. Don't knock it give it a shot, if you don't like it then that's your preference, go find a different guild or come up with an idea to find enjoyment of your own instead of being rude to someone else for trying to have a bit of fun and trying to contribute to those around him/her.
If anything we should be thanking Sunthas, he had an idea and thought that others would enjoy it, so he threw it out there. That's how I like to look at things, even if some ideas may appear bad to others at least the person is trying, and thanks to that person and others like him/her CotH is an awesome place to RP at.
The worlds a roller coaster,
And I am not strapped in,
Maybe I should hold with care,
But my hands are busy in the air.
Right I'm not saying go balls to the wall with absurdity, I agree everything in fantasy has limit and logic, but wow logic is pretty flimsy in some cases and other things being purely 'fan speculation'. I remember members of the Crew which was like a gang all had bikes, or were trying to and they rolled around stormwind it was short lived but done in a way where it was extremely probable. No one had a problem then.
My point is magic should be used to open doors and windows not limit things, we shouldn't worry about being hindered in a game where we're here to have fun. Obviously you have people who are going to exploit rules but rules will always be exploited there isn't anyway to get around that. I feel bad that you feel attacked for your particular role play and characters because it can be discouraging. Its one of the things that I love and get annoyed with CoTH. And it's being "CoTH'd" some people can be so 'elite' where they feel they can tell one how to rp and what to rp. Its a double edged sword because of the high standards you will most certainly ( in my opinion ) find great RP and people who take it seriously, but then you also have to deal with those who do nothing other than RP and.....well... It could get quite annoying dealing with those so anal that they sacrifice fun or interesting themes for other people because of stubborn close minded views. I hope their back talk doesn't discourage you from trying new ideas and making original characters. I enjoyed Bingles on the voyage though he wasn't there for long he still participated and held a valid position without being obnoxious. I didn't know that that was you until further investigation in this thread. Point is, anyone who talks behind your back is weak, -especially- on the internet being anonymous and all. Don't mean to come off offensive.
This is totally still on topic, because it deals with some of the issues that he's facing. When a topic reaches a certain point, it has to diverge -slightly- from the origins to other topics brought up, and in this case it's mainly the idea that things are getting out of hand almost with what is acceptable/not acceptable in the eyes of others. What may seem like common sense to some, completely escapes others to NO fault other than the standards we as players set.
NOT standards that are set by any rules or policies, but the crap that's swilled around through gossip and misinformation. Is the idea of a biker gang possible? Damn skippy. I was one of the people that wanted to do this with Krent back when he was discussing it. To me, it was an amazing idea, worthy of us discussing to a high degree of what we were going to do, and how our characters would be. Ultimately we decided we were going to do something as rediculous as drag queen biker dwarves... and to us it was a great idea. We didn't want it to be strictly comical, we wanted these characters to have depth and personas that we took seriously, and tried to portray seriously, however it didn't take off the ground cause Krent left for a time.
CoTh is in this awkward state that I keep ineptly trying to bring up, but ultimately cannot vocalize too well across the forums due to my horrible wording. In a thread not too long ago, Piken asked about "necromancer/priests", and I said "Why do we need another topic like this?"
This was taken the wrong way. Where I'm going with these sorts of posts is that I think it's -extremely- damn sad that we have to seek approval for every damn concept that hits our lobes. SOMEBODY, somewhere on here, no matter what damned concept it is, no matter how insignificant or seemingly---whatever, is going to be scrutinized by someone in some way. We are fractioning out every single aspect of things in such surreal detail that even to someone like me, it's rather intimidating to try and be serious with any sort of writing of any length here on CoTH because of all the negative crappy feedback you could get, like SunThas is here.
As a community, I have to wonder. Where the heck are we going? Are we going to continue to niggle every little detail of everything, until everyone has this uniform and perfect way of doing things? Are we going to say "This is how you do it" and force guides on everyone that joins? Are we going to -really- close ourselves off so much that we say "if someone doesn't like it, don't do it."?
And as much as I feel I want to make this post, as much as I hope it changes a few minds, I also know that there will always be that shitty gossip. About who does what. About who OOCly is what way. About how you feel about x character, and how they are a "bad roleplayer" or how you don't agree with their ideas... you get the point.
CoTH will probably always be that way. In a way, it's just how it goes. It sucks, especially to see people who are trying have bad experiences because of gossip and disagreements that aren't ever really brought to light. Good for Sun for saying that he doesn't like it. Good for those of you who want to see some of the micromanagement brought back a bit...
My characters are gonna smoke, drink, swear, pay Anna for bike repairs, be sexist, and spit at armor clad White Knights as long as I can, because that's how I am. I hope others do the same, and I hope that we try to steer new people in the right direction rather than -discouraging- them.
07-01-2012, 12:58 AM (This post was last modified: 07-01-2012, 01:02 AM by Zenethen.)
Personally? I hate to say it, but threads like this don't solve problems. I know, I know, 'Why should he have to post a thread like this in the first place?' is probably gonna be thrown at me. Or that same question in some other slightly different form. However, I'd like to stay neutral on this whole thing. However, I have to point out.
If you've got a complaint about people not respecting you, posting a thread about it ain't gonna solve a single bug o' crap. If people aren't respecting you, write the name of said person down and happily advise a GM about it. Said GM will then ask them to stop. That's way easier than posting a gigantic thread, right? Gigantic thread just gets a bunch of people shoutin' calm words at each other.
/2 cents
Also. SunThas. You're a great dude, but your gnomes can be... Really annoying and barge-into-stuff... Unless you've fixed that in the last few months since we last RPed. Dunno.
If you're hearing about gossip down the line, it's hard to say who's doing it. You can't always get the GM's to solve every problem, so, this is a good way to nicely say "Please stop". I think it's great that he did it, because it wasn't dramatic or mean, and didn't call anyone out. It was a message to nameless people in the community who he -couldn't- firmly say was doing it.
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