Daaaaaaaaaark Souuuuuuuullllsss.

[Krent]

So I know I'm all late to the party and stuff, but I just got Dark Souls for the PC.

I like it. Even in all of its 30fps locked resolution GFWL glory.

The thing that stands out to me is the 'feel' of the game. You get a really good sense of the weapons and armor and how they actually would work out if someone tried to use them. In Skyrim, you can go around swinging a giant 2 hander in full daedric armor all day without so much as a hiccup. But in Dark Souls, you really gotta take space, positioning, endurance, and enemy types into serious consideration. I like that. I like it alot, I'm finding.

Kinda reminds me of The Witcher 2. Which, in my opinion, was also a pretty damn good game.

(I dun wanna compare TW2 and Dark Souls even though every other PC gamer is because TW2 is more about an exploration of utilitarian ethics through a strong character-driven narrative while DS focuses more on deep, engaging, highly flexible combat and a totally unique online experience. Two completely different games).

As far as the notorious difficulty is concerned...eh. Am I kinda crazy for thinking that it isn't all that bad? So far, I mean. I've only gone up to the Gargoyle Bosses, and haven't figured out where to go from there yet. But, from what I've played, DS isn't so much as "OMFG HARDEST MOST CHEAPEST GAME EVARRRR!!!" ala NES Battletoads or NES Ninja Gaiden, as it is "Take your time and study EVERYTHING!". As in, yes, I've died quite often and even lost a good amount of souls, but that was due to my impatience than cheaply designed death-traps.

Of course, I haven't progressed in the game at all very much so I could be very very wrong about this notion later on.

Anyone else wanna discuss this game? Or tell me what the hell I'm in store for?

I'm avoiding reading too much into the game. I feel like I won't have a proper experience if I go on gamefaqs and learn all the most efficient builds / where to get the best gear / what to look out for. I wanna experience the game for myself, at my own clumsy pace.

So please, none of that.

[Xigo]

Oohohohoho.

Oooohooohooohooohooo.

There is so much to read into as far as the lore is considered. Welcome to the rabbit hole, Krent. Jump in, and it'll go much deeper than you ever expected.

And yeah, you just gotta take your time with stuff. It doesn't throw random deaths at you. Just gotta be wary.

Pyromancy is low-level easy mode.

[Roxas65]

I didn't like Dark Souls much when it came out. The entire game is just one long test in pattern recognition and if I wanted that, I'd just do an IQ test. Didn't have much difficulty with it, but I just didn't find it entertaining, which is the reason to why I play games in the first place.

[Grakor456]

I saw it come up on Steam, considering whether I should try it or not. In the end I decided against it after reading some more about how the online play works, which doesn't sound fun to me at all.

Also, the constant comparisons to The Witcher does this game no favors in my eyes, because I LOATHE that game series.

[Roxas65]

I thought I was the only one that disliked The Witcher games.

[Krent]

The online experience is actually hella nifty. I'm loving it. Most of the signs that people leave have been hella helpful, and the ones that try to troll you are too obvious to fall for. The ability to summon blue phantoms is also really, really nice. When I tried it out when I was having trouble with the Gargoyle bosses and it made a world of difference. Plus, I love learning from other player's deaths. And the whole 'random ghost outline of another person playing in the same room as you!' is pretty cool. Just one of those "Whooaaaa, some other guy is fighting alongside me in a parallel universe!'

Granted, I've yet to be invaded by a Red Phantom. I hear all sorts of scary stuff about them.

And it really isn't anything like The Witcher. The only similarities the games have is that the combat requires preparation, a keen sense of movement, and position. But, after playing some more Dark Souls, I found that the two games behave drastically different from one another. Dark Souls is weightier, and not nearly as...uhhh....acrobatic as The Witcher 2 is.

TW2's combat system has more in common with the Batman: Arkham Asylum / city games than it does with Dark Souls. Jumping around from enemy to enemy, and whatnot. Dark Souls is significantly 'heavier', where you really have to take into account your character's weapon style and armor load out.

And as far as the game being an IQ test....eh. I come from the NES era of games. I remember NES Ninja Gaiden, Battletoads, and the early Megaman games. THOSE games were brutally hard exercises in pattern memorization.

"HEY YOU KNOW WHAT'D BE AWESOME IS IF WE MADE A LEVEL WITH NARROW PLATFORMS THAT EACH HAVE A NINJA ON THEM THAT REQUIRE PERFECT TIMING AND JUMPING AND POSITIONING TO LAND ON THAT REQUIRES YOU TO INSTANTLY KILL THE NINJA ON THE PLATFORM OR ELSE YOU GET KNOCKED OFF AND DIE INSTANTLY AND OH YEAH LETS HAVE SOME RANDOMLY FLYING CROWS ATTACK YOU WHILE YOU'RE IN MID-AIR THAT YOU HAVE TO KILL INSTANTLY OR ELSE YOU GET KNOCKED OFF AND DIE INSTANTLY AND THEN JUST FOR GOOD MEASURE LETS HAVE A NINJA FLY ABOVE YOU WITH A HANG-GLIDER THE SECOND YOU MANAGE TO LAND ON THE NARROW PLATFORMS SO A NINJA STAR CAN HIT YOU AND YOU GET KNOCKED OFF AND DIE INSTANTLY.

AND IF YOU USE ANY OF YOUR MAGIC YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO KILL THE FINAL BOSS.

8 BIT GAMING!!!!!"

Dark Souls doesn't feel like that. At least, not at the stage I'm playing at.

Also it makes me that you loathe The Witcher Grak. That's like, one of my all-time PC favs. Mostly because I'm hella pretentious and was all like "OMG THEY'RE APPLYING UTILITARIAN ETHICS INTO A NARRATIVE TO MAKE A MORALITY SYSTEM THAT'S ACTUALLY INTERESTING AND NOT THE STANDARD 'GOOD GUY' 'EVIL GUY' PLAY ROUTE THING AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!" when I played it. And I love the story and lore.

Though I do totally get its a heterosexual male power-fantasy. Like a James Bond meets Game of Thrones meets H.P Lovecraft.

P.S I just figured out how to parry-counter stuff now and I feel like such a boss now.

STAB YO GUTS OUT FOOL.

Now I'm gonna try it on something and its totally not gonna work and I'm gonna die. I can't wait!

[Roxas65]

I started playing games around the PSOne era, where pattern recognition was still required, but not the sole purpose of the game. I dislike NES games too for the same reasons I dislike Dark Souls.

And the reason I dislike The Witcher was the combat. Admittedly, I never played the first game, but the second game's combat try to be so extremely console that it was sad. The combat system was really something you'd see on a console game and the PC controls are just complete crap because of it. Not to mention that the first time you fight, they toss several enemies on you at once and you have two swords to use, but the game doesn't bother with telling you the difference between them. They take the "baptism through fire" approach, and it's not very effective in video games. It put me off the entire game.

Dark Souls is guilty of something way worse. It has a level where it kinda pampers you a bit and throws easy enemies at you, and then you get out, think that it wasn't so bad and go to fight the next group of enemies, followed by an extreme and very instant roflstomping from a skeleton loudly screaming "Welcome to reality, b***h." The difficulty curve is so step it has a freaking overhang.

[Grakor456]

See, it's funny, because I hated The Witcher BECAUSE of the writing. It's the sort of game that likes to pretend that it's a lot smarter than it actually is. Any attempts at having deep and thoughtful moral dilemmas by half of the game were completely disarmed by the other half of the game pointing at a topless woman, giggling inanely, and chanting "boobies-boobies-boobies" over and over. It attempts to be more "mature" by being more juvenile, and its (admittedly genuine) attempts at having a complex story can't be taken seriously because of it.

Not that I was a fan of the gameplay either. It's just another hack'n'slash kind of RPG game with more in common with Fable than any of the RPG games I loved. Action and reflexes over thought and strategy, which seems counter to the idea that you'd want to convey if you're telling a story that you want people to, you know, think about.

Now, I admit that Krent is right, it's essentially a heterosexual male power fantasy, with the writing and misogyny. If you're not a straight guy, you get pretty much nothing out of that series, even less than what a woman would get out of James Bond (at least JB is theoretically attractive, you can't say that about the protagonist in TW.) That probably is half the reason I dislike it so much, but I still think that it's just awful in its own right if you're looking at it from a neutral perspective.

In short, it's everything I hate about modern video games, encapsulated in one package of pure awful.

As far as the online play in Dark Souls: I just don't like the idea of invaders and whatever other PvP annoyances that the game opens up on you just for wanting to play with others. Playing coop shouldn't force PvP. So yeah, I can't support that kind of system with my money.

[Piken]

I ordered it. Just waiting on my brother to give me the info(since he set it to HIS email. ._.) but then I shall be in, attempting to defend the weak and wreak havoc on the wicked! And such things.

[Krent]

See, Grak, I think that balance between the utilitarian moral dilemmas and the inherent pulpy sleaze set The Witcher in the right literary 'balance'. for me. As in, I liked the fact that the game could switch to being totally stupid to totally serious at a moment's whim. In my own humble opinion, that's what made the game so charming. One moment you'd have Geralt in a quandary over the ethics of human conflict and warfare. The next, you'd have him choose whether or not he wanted to sex up a vampire brothel. I appreciated the silliness and the seriousness. I tend to like games that do that sort of narrative shifting, because it provides a joyful balance.

I do stand that both games (The Witcher 1 and 2), with all of their inherent flaws, still provide the best exploration of morality in gaming to date. This may be because of my own rampant admiration to utilitarian ethics and general amoral behavior, but the fact that decisions in The Witcher never boil down to strictly 'good' or 'evil', interests me greatly. You never know what's going to happen based on your decision, and the choices serve an actual function in the storyline, rather than a superficial "Do you want to have access to TEH EVIL SPELLS?!?!?! Or do you want TEH GOOD GUIZ ABILITIES!!!!"?! choice that most games present.

And there is an emphasis on strategy. I found in my play-through of The Witcher 2 that preparing and research helped dramatically. Constructing the right trap, placing it in the right position, and then having a battle-plan for that encounter did wonders than charging into everything blindly. Though. all of those things carried over from The Witcher 1, which rewarded players based on their tenacity through studying the lore of the universe. Which I know most players will be turned off from.

But, I do acknowledge those games' flaws. I won't deny the elements of misogyny, or sleaze, or downright pornographic, tantalizing nature of the narrative. I think Grakky's criticisms are very valid. I understand why many people would be turned off from The Witcher series. But, I guess I'ma simple kinda bloke, and enjoy low-fantasy grittiness. So long as its supplemented by something more interesting, which I think the morality / narrative structure provides.

....holy crap I just typed out four paragraphs about The Witcher series in a topic that's supposed to be about Dark Souls.

That seems kinda wrong, don't it?

Can we try to steer the direction back on track to Dark Souls? Maybe?

Forced PvP is a problem. I agree, humans can be total bastards. Griefing can become a total detriment to a game. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to put up with that kinda bullshit. But, if I'm not mistaken, Dark Souls has a number of 'covenants' to join. Groups your character can sweat allegiance to. Joining one of them will make you immune to Red Phantom (Asshole PvPers) invasions, while still giving you full Coop support. But, I can't really confirm that.

Can somebody well-versed in Dark Souls stuff confirm that?


Me, I plan on joining the Dark Moon Convent. I like PvP, but I don't wanna grief players. Griefing the griefers seems to be like my kinda thing.

Oh. Yeah. I'm a lvl 35 wanderer for anyone interested. I just beat the Gargoyle Bosses and...uhh. I dunno where else to go. I rang the first bell I've been exploring the Old Lodron ruins and fighting ghosts. Been farming souls from that, but it kinda sucks. Ghosts get to be a real pain when you fight them on limited territory.

[Roxas65]

Basically, Yahtzee's review on The Witcher 2 says everything I think about it.

And to stay on topic, say what you will about Dark souls, i like their developers. You see, there's always some video game stores that break street date on video games and some people started playing Dark Souls a few days earlier than they should've. What did the devs do? They invaded their world's and spawned max level monsters in their path, of course. I remembered reading about that and laughing for a good while.

[Yandere]

Great game. Much more to be said... hrm.

I'm 42 hours in, after roughly four days of release. That speaks quite a lot, I do believe. It is quite addictive, difficult (albeit not a really frustrating difficulty. There are -no- enemies without weaknesses and such things have to be found in order to succeed properly) and quite fun. I'm level 80, haven't been into the Demon Ruins yet (Bed of Chaos) but have every other boss, except for Gwyn and those in the Demon Ruins. It's my first playthrough, but I seem to be doing fairly well; having beaten Nito and Seath on the first try.

I'm rolling with a Landsknecht / Barbarian like character, using a Zweihänder with +5 Lightning on it, the Dark Leather pants and hand-pieces and the gargoyle helmet. Indeed, no chest-piece. On another note, there is no such thing as 'griefers' in this game. You have to willingly sign up (i.e. becoming human) for PVP in order to be chosen for it. Just hollow if you don't want to. And nope! There is no covenant which allows you to avoid any PVP confrontation. Remaining hollow will, though!

I'm Darkwraith myself but I haven't really bothered to PVP just yet - mostly for my NG+ playthrough. Most of the time, I've just been doing jolly co-operation in the Sunbro covenant before I eventually joined the wraiths.

I also plan on creating a character which pretty much entirely relies on parries and ripostes - carrying a Target Shield and the Estoc / Bandit Knife. Now... this is what my character looks like. Another thing I adore about this game is the atmosphere; when I got to the duke's archives and looked out of the windows, it was a truly amazing sight. But you will see that, once you get to it, yes, yes!

All in all; gorgeousity.

[stompkins]

I've got a handful of level 200+'s with my cousin on the XboX and PS3 versions of this game, every class is easy to play if you know where to go with each one. If you need help, simply message me or leave the message here, I'm sure I can probably help ya.

[Krent]

Awww man.

So I did something hella stupid.

Alright, so, this knight named Lautrec killed my Fire Keeper down in Firelink shrine. I was kinda shocked at this, but was like, wuteva' mangk. I'll kill him whenever.

By the time I got to Anor Londo, I invaded him shortly before confronting Ornstein and Smogh (WHO WERE HELL BY THE WAY I HAD TO CALL IN SUNBRO SUPPORT WITH SOLAIRE AND ANOTHER WHITE PHANTOM AFTER LIKE 3 HOURS OF DYING)

I killed him, got a Fire Keeper soul. And a really good ring I don't ever plan on taking off ever.

And then, like, I forgot all about it. Went progressing through the Duke's Archives, and New Londo ruins. Ended up getting a few other Fire Keeper souls while doing stuff around there.

Now, heres where I screwed up majorly.

I had like, 3 Fire Keeper souls in my inventory, and I used them all.

All of them. Yes, including the soul I looted off Lautrec.

My friend tells me I was supposed to use the one I looted from Lautrec to revive the Keeper at Firelink Shrine.

Whoops?

[stompkins]

Yeah... That was an extremely bad move on your part...