That Thin Line...

[Loxmardin]

I understand your relation to your characters perfectly. I don't always get so immersed that I start to feel that way, but it does happen that my characters haunt me even after the roleplay has ended. To me, that's usually a very beautiful thing and I thoroughly enjoy it in some backwards way when my characters can make me cry, fear and mope because of what I'm making them go through. It's part of the reason I, personally, enjoy the grimdark so much; because it gives me all of these emotions and it fascinates me to no end. Then again, I also thoroughly enjoy horror games and movies even though I'm very easily scared (VERY, VERY EASILY SCARED).

And, some of the best moments I've had during LARPs were when I was running for my life for one reason or another. That dread you feel coupled with the adrenaline rush you get is amazing. It's very hard to forget once you experience it, and I love that I can experience these things through roleplay. Granted, I do enjoy the fluffy happy feels as much as I do the negative emotions that are being drawn out by events like Kidnapped. I don't really get the chance to truly involve myself in RP that brings out such emotion, though. It's much harder to force or provoke, whereas Kidnapped does a very good job this time around to pull on all of your heartstrings at the same time. As someone who is very interested in Psychology and Behavioural Science, it's truly and deeply fascinating to me.

This doesn't mean it has to be for everyone else, though. I understand that people don't need these emotions outside their real lifes away from the computer. All I can really give as advice there is to step back for a moment and breathe, like others have already said. Or just cling to what little still makes your character happy while you figure out the rest so you can shield yourself as much as possible from the dark parts of the roleplay. Surthak mostly did a good job at doing this with his undying optimism, but I understand that even he would go and get himself down eventually. Last night in the event was extremely intense, after all. Which appealed more to some people than it did to others; nevertheless, I hope you could take something good from it all. There are a lot of things you can use for development and everything else can just be filtered out by the self-defense mechanisms.

[Dug]

You people surprise me with the way you think. Some of these things in communities I've been would be frowned upon. I generally hid my opinion about these things due to the fact that I would usually have to explain my self. I'm somehow glad that people here are very understanding and kind when it comes to relation player to character. I definetly understand the time when you absolutely have to become the character to make the proper decision for him, to be him in order to immerse your self and others around you. Emotion comes natural to a player, I mean you watch a movie and you begin to like characters. Why would it be wrong to like a character of your own design then?

I think we can all relate this to mass effect (those who played it). A game that had pulled some serious emotional strings within me. I loved the experience and don't even get me started when I saw one of the characters die. Why hide emotion, when it makes you for what you are? Which would be, human. I agree with the fact it can do some damage sometimes. But that's when we simply call it a day and go do other things or sleep it off in order to calm ourselves and similar.

Mentioning kidnapped, the reason I quit was due to some of the OOC issues with people, but not as much as it made me feel bland and empty. Thankfully, Lox was generous and didn't force me to retcon my characters presence there but allowed me to make him appear outside without any memory how my character got out which was again one of the best roleplay experiences, kidnapped event included. The passive entertained me, but I like to be free as a bird. Staying in one place for two weeks, is not my kind of thing. I don't even know how I lasted eight days, but I loved the experience. The interaction with characters was genuine and made me immerse my self, which pulls those emotional and various excited strings inside me.

I fully understand the difference between IC and OOC. But , "derp", I'm sort of a very emotional person. Empathy and self immersement strives trough me like a wild fire. Hence why I sometimes enjoy my RP more than I should or more than others. As much as twisted that may be, it's for who I am. The line gets thinner however, the more your character develops, the more time you put into him, the more he is life-like. Then again, when I feel things are getting out of hand. A necessary break must happen. Go out, have a beer, or simply take a walk. Call a friend or just play another game. Sometimes I get to a point where I analyze all possible scenarios for him to make him interesting, my character that is.

What I find people , usually, doing wrong about characters, is sort of trapping themselves into this tunnel vision of what they exactly want him to be, then they end up bored because that can not be acomplished over night. Their tunnel vision had made them seperate their character from others and there for, make the character boring and avoided. Or simply the roleplayer didn't meet enough people with the character. Players certainly, sometimes, have to come close to the mentioned thin line, or simply break out of the shell of what is taboo and what isn't. Now I'm mostly speaking from experience here and this does not have to go for all. Some people are comfortable with one thing, the others aren't. But that's just my opinion which I had to write down and share.

[Rowgen]

I've always viewed the separation of IC and OOC as important for the sake of drama, but you're not causing a ruckus now, Grakor. You're not raging at Loxxy, or Xigo, or anyone else for what's going on in the event. You're reacting to what your character feels. It's empathy. I can deal with what's happening to my characters because I often lay plans ahead of time and prepare myself emotionally (I actually got out of Kidnapped relatively unscathed compared to what I was prepared for) for my characters experiencing something really devastating.

I've always seen suffering as a way to character development. It lets the character realize how horrible certain kinds of hurt can be, and it can provoke a character development in the direction of empathy. I know that Linevi, for one, will leave Kidnapped with a whole new impression of the Horde (and that is partially because of you!). I often plan ahead - or improvise - what my character will develop into after different experiences. That gives me the ability to look past the temporary pain, and forward to what lies ahead.

But that's just me, explaining why I don't react in exactly the same way as you do. It's a method that works for me, but I dunno if you do the same or if it would work for you. All I'm saying is that I get what you're saying, Grakor. Returning to what I was talking about in my first few lines; I want you to know that you're not being a hypocrite. You're not raging at people for doing this or that to your character, because you believe your character is the best and should get the best treatment. You're channeling the character's emotions. You're feeling what you imagine your character feels. You're being compassionate. You're being human, and if we started cursing each other for allowing ourselves to feel emotion, then we may as well strive towards the ideal of being a society of machines.

[Memnoch]

You know, this is exactly why I like this server, and I haven't even been around all that much. People are very understanding. <3

In all seriousness, though, when I get into a character, I really get into a character. Some I make one just for gits and shiggles, but others, I make because I genuinely want to make someone "like that". Take Rancoura, for instance, my only character on the server as of this writing. She's in a really tough situation at the moment. She's still getting over her own death at the hands of the Scourge because she's still not had the courage to face it, just putting it off and putting it off. A lot of her persona, I derived from my own, truth be told, however there's one key thing I did on purpose to make sure I don't get really super attached to her, and that is that everything she gets from me is from my past. I was going through a really tough time about a decade ago, and I kept putting it off, just like Coura, and so I can really empathize where she's coming from, having experienced it myself. However, there's something I know that she doesn't, and that is that if she were to stop for a sec and actually face her own fears, it's like ripping duct tape off a hairy part of your body. Keep it on there, and it'll keep nagging at you and nagging at you, but rip it off, and yes it's painful, but then it's overwith quickly.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that maybe you and your character (Surthak, was it?) share too much right now? Is it possible that you're OOCly driving them, even as they influence you from your IC perspective of their mind and life? When I made my first toon ever, I made the mistake of putting too much of myself into him, and it cost me in the end, and took a long time for me to see what was wrong. Even now, I find myself sometimes wanting to do something ICly that normally, that toon wouldn't do, simply because I wanted this or that to happen, much like McKnighter said about driving your characters toward or away from other people and characters.

I'm also trying to emulate what others have said and add my voice, that you aren't alone. It happens to everyone on some level, or so I believe from my experiences with my own toons, and hearing others' thoughts OOCly. The best thing you can do is exactly what you're doing; take a step back, breathe deep for a moment or two, open your eyes again and see what's really going on.

Best of luck, man!

[Psychyn]

I've always favored the more "light and fluffy" kinds of RP: romance, comedic scenes, and action-adventure stuff especially. What it came down to, I found, is that like it or not I was channeling a bit of my own character's emotions. Surthak was depressed, and therefore so was I. Surthak had moments of happiness when he interacted with those he was close to, and so did I.

This is pretty much why I haven't joined Kidnapped at all. I could have, I was well in time for the event and surely could have cooked up a character for it.. But the depressive atmosphere, the whole drama involved in it and grim-dark situation. I don't like it but I used to, way back when I joined CotH I had a slave-trader named Saraya who was pretty dark. She tortured for fun, loved the sight of wasted blood and all in all was a pretty messed up character.

I've just changed over the years, things that didn't bother me then can make me feel bad now thus I avoid them. I can't give a proper way to deal with it, others may have posted something in regards to that as I've admittedly not thoroughly read the other posts. What I do is avoiding it, and focus on happier toons and situations and when a toon becomes too dramatic or depressed, I pause or just stop playing them.

Can't ever have enough romance with my preference, when the characters smile, I do. I'll be paying more attention to the other posts when I've waken up more, and hey, maybe we'll both find a better way to deal with things. I'm not seeing it as bad but it would be nice to strengthen my mind a bit and not have acts ICly affect me so much OOCly.

And this by itself wouldn't have bothered me, until discussions among some friends turned to the potential death of Gron during the finale of the event...and, for a brief moment, I was rather upset at the notion. Gron isn't even my character! But Surthak had grown increasingly emotionally-attached to him, and in a certain why I'd feel sad for his loss.

That as well, not sure what to say on it other then 'I can relate'. I struggle to see toons I've enjoyed RPing with become darker, twist and bend into a new direction that I wasn't thinking or hoping for them to go into. I've started telling myself that if the player enjoys it, it is all good as it is admittedly their toon and mine shouldn't influence theirs in the way that they can not do the RP they enjoy. It helps, if only a little.

[Reigen]

I know how you feel here Grakor, I always viewed the line between IC and OOC more of 'don't take what happens IC out on others OOCly', not that you can't get attached to your characters and 'feel' their pain and sorrow. It's part of our ability to immerse ourselves into what's going on. I don't think there's anything wrong with it at all, and yeah, I can get a tiny bit upset when a character I RP with dies or has something horrid happen to them because in a way, I want to protect the character so I can keep interacting with them.

I get attached to my characters just as much as anyone else, it's pretty much the only reason Reigen is still around. The character, by all rights, just wants to die and it's pretty depressing to log on her half the time because that's where her interactions have taken her. At the same time, I don't want to let her go because she has a lot of interactions that I don't want to have to try to rekindle on another character. I'm pretty sure a lot of people have a character that they'd refuse any sort of perma death. Not saying I wouldn't let her get killed, but the thought of never being able to play her again kinda makes me cringe.

I also love-light hearted RP [which sucks when my light-hearted char is pretty depressed] because it's just so uplifting. Why do you think I love the interactions with Thragash so much, even when they made a sand-D in River's Heart. Yeah, it was immature. Yeah, it was incredibly silly but FFS it was -fun- and we had fun doing it. I'm sure a lot of people would roll their eyes at an orc and a belf DK doing that, but so long as we're having fun, who gives a crap?

We need to build more, Grakor. Every beach with have a statement to Thragash's manlyness.

[JVNemesis]

I get attached to characters in a “I enjoy roleplaying you, this is fun for me” sort of way. Some characters I have a vested interest in keeping alive because I have a storyline in mind, someone else really likes RPing with them, or they’re just plain fun for me. I’d be upset if they suddenly got off’d, or exploded without my consent, or whatever. I’d be miffed, kinda annoyed, etc, if a character that mine had a vested interest in died in a similarly stupid way, but it’s happened before (quite a few times, for some of my characters), and then it just becomes…development, really. I’m not so tied to them that when they get sad, I get sad, or anything like that.

As a writer, I’ve ended (rather permanently) a lot of characters I’ve quite enjoyed, hero, villain, and otherwise. I’ve read a lot of stories where characters I liked have terrible things, including death, happen to them. Sure, there’s been “…Aww. “when they get dusted, or I feel bad when they lose friends/family/whatever, but I also have the necessary divorce of “This isn’t real. This isn’t a real person. This shouldn’t hurt me.” That disconnect is really necessary, especially when you immerse yourself in a character you’re trying to write, which you need to do in order to get the best and most believable reactions. You have to think like the character would think to convince your reader, but you have to also understand, on some level, that “this isn’t me. The character I’m emulating right now is super depressed, suicidal, on the end of his rope. But I’m not.” If I did that for every character whose life I'd ruined, I'd be a mess right about now. :P

It’s a disconnect I brought with me when I started RPing, and it’s probably saved me a great deal of grief. Sure, some things still bug me at times, but those are mostly the ones that are out of my control, when someone else does something that annoys me/ruins a plan I had for a character I was really enjoying. But it happens. Were I the only writer, everything would go According To Plan, but that’s not quite so fun, is it? :P

[LostStranger]

...My characters and I are joined to the extreme.

They are direct reflections of my personality, from one angle or another, and their development is intimately related to my own.

This has made them compellingly realistic to those who get to know them, and as uncompromisingly radical as their creator.

Less nobly, when I have a bad day, I tend to bring that baggage with me into the game, my characters tend to be more vindictive and a hostile edge creeps into my peripheral communication concerning them. You don't have that problem, not like I do. When you're unhappy, you're infallibly respectful about it, but it's where the otherwise essential effect of story empathy can go wrong.

...

Back to the bright, my characters have inherited my talent for logical thought.

They argue their stances very eloquently, very passionately, because they believe every word that comes out of their mouths, blatant lies beside the point, and they have the energy to do this because I come to believe too.

I met the love of my life when our characters did, and our relationship grew in time with theirs.

I made my closest friends when my roleplaying reached out to theirs.

My power play polarizes people, leaving quite a few offended but many delighted. I'm magnetic both in and between literary lines.

...do you believe, then, that it is how we deal with these emotions that is more important than their presence or absence? Or, as emotions can often affect us without our fully knowing, that is still important to manage?

Emotion, whatever the source, festers if impotently handled. That is the principle I put my faith in.

I believe that one can ride the wave in productive ways, however, and should. Your occasional discontent has always highlighted the reformist in you.

I'd dare to claim that you know, by the way, what you're feeling and when. You might not look it in the eye, not every time, but you know, and it does have an influence on your decisions and perspective, subdued or not, that is worth taking into account.

Again, I act on my feelings.

Egocentric me encourages you to compare and contrast how this shows in my conduct, whether and what you want or want to avoid.

It has its moments, for better and worse. You know the worse.

[Zarquon]

I personally make a very conscious effort to maintain a distance between myself and my character. I do this out of the belief that while the very idea of roleplaying is to step into the shoes of our characters, to view the world through their eyes, to act as them, to feel pain, loss, love, joy as they do, it is nonetheless important not to lose perception. Our characters are not real, and if the line between IC and OOC is frayed too much, we'd only hurt ourselves.

Truth is, I don't succeed often in this endeavor. It has happened to me before that I become too attached to a character or a storyline, or God forbid, a relationship that my character is having with another. In none of this situation has it not just caused pain, stress, anxiety or loss, and I learned the hard way that when the line is blurred, I'd only suffer for it. The ability to diffrentiate ourselves from our characters is thus something that I'd encourage one make a conscious effort to exercise, because almost every single drama that I had the misfortune to be a part of or witness is derived from a Roleplayer's failure to disconnect himself from the internet.

Take a breather. Go out and watch the movies, spend time with your friend, or take a walk in the park. There's another negative side-effect when one is unable to make this diffrentiation; one closes doors in one's Roleplaying experience too. There are scenarios and situations where we'd never want to find ourselves in, nor want to ever be a part of. However, the very idea of Roleplay is to experience these situations without suffering the consequences of it, but to watch, learn, empathize, cry a little, smile a little; yet throughout all that, understand that it is not real. I have found that the more I practice the ability to draw the line between IC and OOC, the more I liberate myself from the actions and happenings of my characters, the more I am able to enjoy myself and stay away from drama.

[Rini]

My power play polarizes people, leaving quite a few offended but many delighted.

I apologise sincerely to Grakor for derailing this thread for a moment, but this actually speaks to me in a sense, I suppose. I'll admit to being one of those people who don't like your power playing, and for a good reason I'd like to think - you're breaking the rules of the server and ruining the fun for a small handful of others because they're not the majority. :I I don't mean to make this a dramatic call-out, but this is -very- silly to me.

[Valicor]

I'm probably just going to say the same exact things that everybody else has said;
Grak, I know -exactly- how you feel. I've always been an out-going, level-headed, nice guy (so I think), but out of my creation comes Jaedyn, a near-psychopathic, virtually unlikable (save for Kidnapped) troll.
Through my many many MANY emotional venture with Jaedyn, I find that my emotions fluctuate with his. When he has an emotional, angry breakdown, I get angry myself. When trouble befalls him and he's discontent, I can't help but feel the same myself.
And this is perfectly fine! Nothing wrong with it at all. I feel this is just you being able to sink into your character's skin, and feel how they feel, and know how they feel. This verifies that you add true depth to your RP, such as everybody else here does as they've posted their relations. Although it's a good skill to separate OOC and IC, there is nothing wrong with being your character. That's exactly what RP is, isn't it? Pretending to live the life of someone like, or sometimes dislike, you?
I think this makes you a much better RPer, honestly. I'd straightly give you props for feeling this way. Don't feel bad buddy. And if a character's disadvantages have you feeling that glum, you -MUST- have some alts or something! Go outside, get some sun, do something fun, or even try making a new character. It's always helped me before.
Hope I helped some.

[ImagenAshyun]

Before Kapre met Xanthe, he was suicidal after facing his second breakup, especially with a female he has defended for so long and had children with (at the time, retconned now). Though this is all RP (and the breakups were agreed upon because the players were no longer active), the pain Kapre went through was all too personal and familiar--especially the thoughts of suicide. The kids Kapre had were originally his blood children, but the thought of separating this family because of a falling out was too painful to bear (too close to home); I had to retcon the blood relations and simply say they're adopted. Still, the pain was becoming unbearable despite being RP. Too much of this crossed the IC/OOC line, and I was very, very ready to retire the character permanently.

But you know how that story ended



I identify with your problem, Grakor. IC occurrences can cross over the OOC line, even when we're fully aware and in control of what happens. I'm still dealing with the traumas that happened with the original Imagen Ashyun in 2002, which has affected my willingness to RP women in public RP, and that history still haunts me today and this current incarnation of my namesake character. Nowadays, I try to stay with lighter RP with Immy, and I can't blame you for hoping to do the same with your characters.

I can only say I'm grateful that the crossing of the OOC line hasn't been so bad that it would break you. I pray it never does.

[Xigo]

Roleplaying is a way for me to explore emotions. To explore feelings, thoughts, ideas. I have horrible things happen to my characters because it grants me access to a sort of catharsis. It lets me look my internal horrors in the eye, through someone else's eyes, so that I might chuckle and say "that ain't so bad, innit?".

I'd advise against getting so invested in your characters that you can't experience catharsis yourselves. You need to have that release. Don't just stow it up inside you. Don't clench all the sorrows that your characters experience to your chest. Let them out. Explore them. Learn about these things that shake you. You'll be the better for it.

I've made a lot of characters that are my explorations of things I hate. My troll shaman, a bundled up ball of spite and lies. Greeneye, an envious bully. Ara'Gazhi (disturbingly lovable, probably a bad example). Ikashu. So on, so forth. People I would absolutely want to kick in the gonads and strife IRL. But it's really fun to create them and explore them. To confront these things that I hate, and get my release.

... And I just don't think it's good for your writing to get too heavily invested in one character. It makes drama. Most drama on CotH comes from people being so invested in a character that they refuse to allow a death, or harm, or so on and so forth. Regardless, this isn't the place for that, won't get into it here.

Still understand where ya'll are coming from, though! It's just not the way I personally am.

[Rigley]

Hmmmm...

It may be surprising to hear as someone who deliberately engineers suffering on the behalf of their characters, but I actually empathize with them most of the time.

See, here's my method of operation: I give them baggage and throw terrible, terrible things at them-- and then I want to see how I can have them overcome it. I like to punch them and orchestrate some terrible events, but in the end I want to find a way for them to persevere. IT BUILDS CHARACTER AND GROWS THE HIDE THICK.

...I do often feel along with the characters though. Or perhaps more precisely, my characters and I tend to be in similar moods. In the past I played Endling a ton when I was feeling down, and as a result the roleplay from her just came more fluently. Seda's been taking that spot lately. Sometimes though I do feel myself being brought down when on long stretches of them-- I suppose it'd less be getting depressed, and more me just getting 'drained'. A lot of times though I have been hopeful when something good looks like it'll happen to my characters, and disappointed when plans go awry.

So yeah. I have had tons of times where I stop and think, 'GodDAMN this is depressing'. But a good part of a story for me is seeing that depressing set-up being thrown off through interaction and development. It forces out complexity and emotions and... stuff. Yeah, stuff. Stuff that usually makes your character more defined for it, or at least more interesting.


....Ramble. Ramble ramble ramble. I guess that's all I've got to pitch in on this?

[Rowgen]

@Rigley, this is exactly what I mean. This is exactly how I feel about my characters.