Rp gun restrictions

[Werewolf1]

This is what I understand so far: weapons he would use should be for close range and not as powerful as an average rifle. Lastly he might need some handgun practice to help with accuracy.

[Lucelia]

The GMs said no. It doesn't matter if another player said "Yeah, this is okay."

[rentreality]

The GMs said no. It doesn't matter if another player said "Yeah, this is okay."

I'm merely trying to help people determine what would be realistic for them to use, if their class can use it or the GMs change their mind.

[Werewolf1]

Post subject: Re: Rp gun restrictions Reply with quote
The GMs said no. It doesn't matter if another player said "Yeah, this is okay."
Post Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 7:52 pm

I don't even care anymore about the rifles. I find this very interesting, I'm even going to rp my hunter differently now. Problem with handguns was the impact you suffer. So I'm just asking someone who knows his firearms about removing the problem.

[Harmonic]

I understand this, Rent, but again the way WoW guns work it's like this, you put a small charge into a cylandar, much like putting a cannon ball in a cannon. THe kick is less than that, but still significant, considering "blasting powder" is considered more volitile in WoW that standard black powder.


Also, the arcanite steampistol, despite it's name, is not a single handed gun, and is as large as any other gun. The difference, actually, has to do with the way it's loaded. Also, it seems all of the WoW guns share the same calibur, and therefore kickback, as the ammunition is interchangable.

Trying to put rational thought into the irrational way mechanical items work in WoW is currently difficult. Till, for whatever reason, Blizz deciedes to make this a possible item for people to have, we won't either.


OTHERWISE, you could argue that other classes could use any weapon too.

[Drumgar]

Massive fireball of destruction, that doesn't weigh anything, doesn't need ammo, doesn't cost anything to build and maintain, or a gun? I just don't see much logic behind a mage with a gun at all.

[Krent]

No hand guns in WoW? Shit, I've been RP'ing Dan using a small steam-pistol (I always have to state in my emotes that it's small because the in-game model makes it look like a freaking cannon) for self defense purposes. Low caliber, holds 4 shots, easy to use but couldn't pierce any kind of metal. With the way WoW engineering presents itself I thought it was completely plausible for hand guns to exist. If they can make artillery tanks and walking mecha, I figure someone's smart enough to make a gun smaller for Joe Stormwind to use.

Now, on the mages issue....I don't really see why a mage or a shaman or restricted class would even need a gun. A mage could blow up your face with a few simple hand movements.

[rentreality]

Thanks for replying, Rensin. It's good to hear more of the thought process from behind the scenes, if you will, so we get a better idea of why a given policy's in place.

Allow me to preface this by saying that a question I've never been able to answer adequately for myself is what, precisely, is part of the game, and what is a game mechanic? What is there as an actual, physical restriction, and what is there to balance the gameplay? It's a question I'll be referring to over and over in my reply, I'm afraid, and I'd like some help making sense of it.

I understand this, Rent, but again the way WoW guns work it's like this, you put a small charge into a cylandar, much like putting a cannon ball in a cannon. THe kick is less than that, but still significant, considering "blasting powder" is considered more volitile in WoW that standard black powder.

I'm not sure where you found the information on blasting powder being more volatile than black powder (which isn't particularly volatile, actually -- it merely burns if it isn't restrained in something like a crate, bullet casing, or barrel), as I wasn't able to find any information on that, but it doesn't change the basic mechanics of the situation. It works in one of two ways:

1: The powder is placed in the gun, a wad is pressed down after the powder in order to compact it and keep it in place, and then the projectile itself is loaded.
Or,
2: The powder is placed in a shell casing, a wad is pressed into the throat of the casing, and the projectile is pressed in over the wad to create a self-contained "bullet."

In the first scenario, the amount of powder (and thus, the explosive force behind the ball and the resulting kick) can be controlled. Less powder means less explosive force means less kick -- and less range and muzzle velocity on the projectile.

In the second, the amount of powder cannot be controlled directly. I'll get into that later in my post.

Also, the arcanite steampistol, despite it's name, is not a single handed gun, and is as large as any other gun. The difference, actually, has to do with the way it's loaded.

I'm confused by this, to be honest, and I think it's a game mechanics issue. I would hazard that the reason the pistol is a two-hander lies in the fact that Blizzard never put the code or animation cycles into place for a single-handed firearm.

Regardless of this, I would say that, at this point, whether or not the WoW milieu is a universe with pistols is a moot point: a former member of the CotH GM staff, Piken, had a character who not had the last name "Spinpistol," but actively utilized the weapon. This doesn't necessarily mean that they would be common weapons, but at this point it would be hard to argue that they don't exist -- especially given the amount of people Piken threatened with imminent death from them!

I'm confused about the mention of the manner in which the weapon is loaded. Pistols are single shot, magazine fed, or cylinder fed, and rifles with these same configurations all exist in the Warcraft universe.

Also, it seems all of the WoW guns share the same calibur, and therefore kickback, as the ammunition is interchangable.

This is something that I'm almost certain is a game mechanic as opposed to part of the game. If you shoot a squirrel with a .50 caliber projectile with a muzzle velocity of 2,000 feet per second, there won't be anything left to eat: the hydrostatic shock alone would scatter the pieces of the poor critter over half a square mile! To put it simply, if you use man-killer ammunition to hunt small game, you'll go hungry.

This brings me back to the second part of my discussion on ammunition. Either there are a number of calibers of firearm, much as we have in real life, or there are a number of different charges of powder, to allow some control over the muzzle velocity.

Trying to put rational thought into the irrational way mechanical items work in WoW is currently difficult. Till, for whatever reason, Blizz deciedes to make this a possible item for people to have, we won't either.


OTHERWISE, you could argue that other classes could use any weapon too.

I would argue that, to be honest, but this isn't the place. It's just always struck me as amusing that a Paladin can't figure out how to use a bow or stab people with a knife, or a warlock can't figure out that the sharp and pointy ends of a two-handed sword work precisely the same way as his smaller, one-handed sword -- sure, it may be a matter of strength, but adrenaline does amazing things!

...Wow. This got long fast.

[Brutalskars]

Pistols do exsist in WoW. There are many pieces of Blizzard artwork with flintlick and caplock pistols. One somewhere has a revolver.

But pistols are generally not as accurate as rifles or carbines. Carbines are lighter and many are fed from the butt as a primitve bull pup design. THen many rifles are most likely break action, muzzle fed or at best lever action.

I think civil war with many WoW basic guns. On the topic of WoW advanced tech weapons though there are everything from primitive machine guns that are upgraded gatling guns too chainsaw swords.((For chainsaw sword see "chatter blade" as actual name))

[Piroska]

Note: I'm not trying to give credence to the idea of mages wielding guns, but instead discussing their presence in the Warcraft universe.

Loathe as I am to refer to the original roleplaying game handbook, there is an article regarding firearms within its pages. I only remember it because I played a human with a lot of experience with firearms due to her rather close association with dwarves. Or something like that; it's been a few years.

Firearms
Firearms are a relatively new dwarven invention. Despite the dangers of dealing with volatile explosives, the possibilities fascinate tinkers (note: a class available to players in the RPG) and engineers.

Firearms are treated like other ranged projectile weapons, although they cannot be constructed to benefit from a wielder's exceptional Strength bonus. Firearms are exotic weapons (except for the blunderbuss, which requires no expertise -- it's point-and-shoot). Exotic Weapons Proficiency (firearms) grants a character proficiency will all firearms; otherwise, she takes a -4 nonproficiency penalty on all attack rolls. (Ironforge dwarves and goblins tree flintlock pistols and long rifles as martial weapons.)

Firearms use various types of ammunition. Most firearms and firearm ammunition obey all the normal rules for masterwork and magic weapons (a +2 long rifle is perfectly legal). As with other projectile weapons, the enhancement bonus from a firearm does not stack with the enhancement bonus from its ammunition. Ammunition fired from a firearm is always lost or destroyed, even if it misses the target.

The Malfunction Rating (MR) for firearms and explosives varies depending on the specific weapon. When firearms malfunction they usually jam or misfire, while explosives go off prematurely or prove to be duds. See "Gunpowder" below, for additional details.


Gunpowder
Firearms use 1 ounce of gunpowder per shot. Gunpowder is sold in small kegs (15-pound capacity, 20 pounds total weight) and in water-resistant powder horns (2-pound capacity and total weight). Sixteen ounces are in a pound. If gunpowder gets wet, it is ruined and does not burn.

Dwarven experimentation has revealed several improvements over common gunpowder. Refined gunpowder propels ammunition with greater velocity. It provides a +1 enhancement bonus on damage rolls.

Imbued gunpowder is an alchemical mixture that protects the gunpowder and enhances its explosive properties. Water does not ruin imbued gunpowder. A weapon that uses imbued gunpowder has its Malfunction Rating increased by +1, but grants a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls and overcomes damage reduction as if it were a magic weapon.

The article goes on to warn players that rolling a natural 1 on a saving roll against a fire effect causes the gunpowder that they are carrying to explode. Which is fun!

Edit: In terms of timeline, the RPG takes place before Onyxia's demise. So we've had a couple of years for these inventions to proliferate throughout the world(s). I'd assume that most people would be loathe to use the technology (especially given some of the effects of them malfunctioning) but there are enterprising individuals who do use them.

[Nostra]

I don't think it matters much if one certain mage could use a special gun, or a two-handed sword, because for every guy who roleplays this in a good way there'd be three others going beyond ridicilous in their RP.

So as I see it, it's better to keep the restrictions there, and if someone wants to RP having a gun they can, as long as you keep it within lines, if we see someone running around with assault rifles or what not, they'll likely get a stern talking to.

Generally the ones who RP these pretty silly characters (though probably utterly badass and original in their own eyes) are gone within a few days or so, but with the restrictions we at least won't have to see them walk around in too stupid stuff.

[carlthecamel]

Personally if I was a mage i would not have a handgun. Why would i need a gun to pull out and shoot with when I could just shoot out a fireball? Perhaps a way to get around this if you -really- want to use a gun with a mage is if you had an empty gun and "channeled" through this gun. I could quite possibly see a mage using a runed or enchanted Gun to focuse more easily when shooting.

Just an idea.

[Cressy]

But that would be a Technomage, and that is a prestige class.

[carlthecamel]

Ahhhh, sorry then ;p

[Monolith]

Crossbows are simple things you can point and shoot with no kickback. Bows too- though they require more skill. A gun, in Warfraft, is... Well, a hand cannon. There's none that are not. They have as much kickback as a shotgun. Even the pistols. Remember that these are not glock pistols or something like that.