Speaking of Reform.

[Nostra]

For a long time now we GMs have been discussing Prestige Classes and their role on CotH, sadly it seems they haven't had the impact we wished they would have, therefore some changes have been suggested. Now after having argued back and forth over this and listened to what the GMs have to say we come to you for your opinion, so read through the suggestion and post what you think, stay polite and this will go well!

The First Suggestion.

Removing the need for approval before starting the training process. Here the change is rather fundamental in that we want the prestige classes to go from being a reward to only certain players to something anyone could try, GMs would still keep tabs on the IC posts but they wouldn't need to be approved before hand either, instead we will read them as they are posted and unless there's something iffy in them, not meddle in the process. If there would be something we aren't fond of or if something that simply cannot be accepted (overpowered abilities, unrealistic interaction and such) we will speak up and, unless the player is cooperating, lock the character from further advancement.

This suggestion is paired with certain templates that will outline the strengths and weaknesses of the different prestige classes, before a class can be trianed there needs to be one of these templates. We have a few ready and soon to be ready but we will need the help of the community to finish the rest, I will provide an example further down in this post.

So, the main point of this is that instead of being a reward it will be a way for any character to advance and the GMs will be there to guide players right, so they don't go overboard (stay within the limitations as outlined by the templates) and also help them with their posts and such if that would be needed. So it'll be a learning experience too!


The Second Suggestion.

Here we would modify the system we already have by letting people apply for starting out as prestige classes or create character with a specific prestige in mind, which is rather hard to prevent in any case. If one would start out as a prestige one would, instead of having a training process, have a storyline which should involve several people and not centre around a RP hotspot. That is, we don't want prestige titles to be like just any character, they should be out in the world driving storylines, aiding plots and generally initiate great, more adventerous, RP. Not sitting at the bar in Ratchet drinking beer all day.

Example:

Spoiler:

Dark Apothecary

Requirements:
Forsaken only, all classes. Must already be a practiced Alchemist.

What is a Dark Apothecary?
The Royal Apothecary Society employs many Forsaken who have a great and consuming interest in alchemical methods. The most deranged of these become Dark Apothecaries. A Dark Apothecary is often an alchemist of the R.A.S., helping the Apothecarium develop and test its many new plagues and horrifying poisons. Their methodical scientific minds will move inexorably forward in the service of their goals without thought to morality or danger. With a tolerance built up from a great deal of exposure and decomposing flesh, the Dark Apothecaries become immune to many poisons and at least resistant to some acids. Indeed, these scientists are a fearsome weapon.

Who likes them?
-Forsaken society highly values its alchemists. The Royal Apothecary Society holds positions of status for Dark Apothecaries, and a moderate amount of command is gained by becoming one, especially in the later stages of training.

Who doesn't?
-Anyone who likes nature (I.E. Tauren, Night Elves, Orcs.) will hate the Dark Apothecaries.
-Living creatures are fearful and distrust the bringers of vile plagues... For good reason.

Strengths:
-Highly intelligent, and excellent poison-makers.
-Able to invent own brews if they have enough reagents.
-If trained within the Royal Apothecaries, there is an amount of value and status gained within Forsaken society.

Weaknesses:
-Often physically frail in melee combat.
-Many eschew their healing talents completely, and have little skill in making beneficial potions (For the living at least).
-Looked down on by many in living Horde society, mainly for their terrifying nature.

Skills and Benefits:
Here are a few skills and/or benefits you can expect to gain from the class, and how long it takes to learn or accomplish each goal. If you have something to add, please mention it to a GM for it to be added. You can do more than one at a time, and some will cause others to be given for free, but it should take you around 2 months or so to get a sort of mastery of the class, maybe longer. Remember that all these times aren't set in stone, but they represent a ballpark estimate that tries to take in account the importance of what's gained IC'ly, and the fact that you probably don't want to spend a year OOC'ly doing these things.

-Focus on one kind of alchemical creation, that kind has increased ability and potency (1 week). Most Forsaken will probably choose a harmful specialty, and the class is focused on harmful effects generally, but don't let that stop you from having your Dark Apothecary specialize in, for example, beneficial potions like healing, protection, or another sort if you want to.

-Increased resistance to poison (1-2 Weeks). Forsaken are already immune to a lot, but this will make you better. As well, the longer you work with poisons and try to become resistant to them, the more toxins accumulate in your body. The end result is that, after a month or two of training in this class, your character's bodily fluids become caustic and poisonous.

-The ability to make an "Unstable Concoction" out of any reagents on your person (1-2 weeks). This is a potion with a number of random effects that have a chance of happening once the contents are exposed to an object. The number of effects should be about 4-6 (That is, 1 four or six-sided die to roll. Makes it easier.) and include one null effect (Does nothing), one detrimental effect (Damages somehow, or maybe makes an oil slick or something), and one beneficial effect (Heals what it touches, or perhaps protects against acids.). You'll /roll [Number] to determine what happens after you do your action. Any other effects you can choose yourself, but note them down when you discover the potion.

-Royal Apothecary Society membership (1 month) This will allow you to have a few non-player lackeys to order around; people useful for menial gathering tasks and research while you're doing other things. Your service to the Apothecary Society is determined by your whims for the character. If you do one additional month of service to the Royal Society you'll be able to order around a player military members or player Apothecaries within reason, though this extends to Forsaken only.

-A set of personal tools (2 Weeks, or a great deal of in-character money), or a personal workshop with tools. (1 month and a lot of in-character money, or Royal Apothecary membership.) These won't exist in the gameworld unless you pretend they do, but they definitely help you out when you're making things. They're customized for what you work with, and probably can't be replaced easily.

-Custom Potion (2+ months). This is your crowning achievement, if you even succeed in making it. It will do whatever you want it to, within reason (I.E. A kill-anything disease will not work, but a poison that causes someone to Blight from the inside out is do-able).

What is it we want?

Well, we'd like to see prestige titles take on a more meaningful role on CotH, right now we rarely see anyone going beyond applying for a class which is very sad, seeing how much potential the prestiges have for creating some very interesting and different RP. I, as in me, Nostra, believe that the templates will help some in this, since they specify what powers/abilities the different classes would have as well as strengths/weaknesses. This will hopefully make it clearer what a prestige can and can't do and thus let people feel more at ease using their powers, since they know they have support in what they do.

It's important to remember that a prestige title does mean a character would be more powerful than our standard characters, but not against anyone or anything, they are generally more specialized which means that they will excel in some areas but fall far behind elsewhere. To take a basic example, an Archmage would be a very powerful arcanist but if wounded by say, a dagger in the chest, the damage might be more severe due to his frail physical condition than for a warrior or even a "simple" mage who'd not have had to spent as much time with their noses in books.


Hm, that's all we had to say for now, we're looking forward to hearing your own suggestions and the discussion to come, just keep in mind to stay civil, as allways! If you do not feel like posting your opinion/suggestions here feel free to PM us GMs and we'll look at them privately instead.

[Cowssaymoo]

We don't want prestige titles to be like just any character, they should be out in the world driving storylines, aiding plots and generally initiate great, more adventerous, RP. Not sitting at the bar in Ratchet drinking beer all day.

Unless the title itself is about drinking *nod nod* well, hopefully we'll see a few more prestige titled people [I was gonna be one by the way] running around after whatever change is chosen.

Well the second option might get a ton of people to make such characters... perhaps a bit too many? also prestige classed characters would still be limited to one per person, right?

[Beltharean]

The first option seems like the better of the two. With the first option, prestige will still -mean- something, but not be extremely hard to obtain. It will take the 'prestigee' (for lack of a better term) time and effort to obtain the title, but it will be open to anyone. I still think the person should have to play here for two months or more, but they should at -least- be grunted.

That being said, with the second option, prestige would mean almost nothing. It's supposed to be prestigious, and if everyone and their mother can decide to roll a demon hunter, then there's gonna be problems. RP quality would most likely fall, because there would be hardly any regular characters left... You walk into a bar now, and you see a rogue, a priest, a warrior, and a hunter. If the second option goes through, you'll see a rogue, a hexxer, a demon hunter, and a beastmaster instead. It would take the prestige out of prestige the way I see it.

Just tossing out a suggestion here as well, the idea of involving more than just yourself in your prestige title is something I always figured would be more... Realistic. Are you going to be able to go on that epic quest for your master all on your lonesome? Highly doubtful. So maybe the prestige posts forum could be changed into more of a 'Prestige Story line' forum. Where people can make cameos in the person's post if they RP'd IC, to show that the prestigee is working toward the goal in game, and out.

[DaveM]

I like the first suggestion, but I believe these should be -one- point in time in which GMs say "Approved" or require changes or "Denied". Either when a prestige-storyline planning summary is submitted or when the character would have finished the prestige training.

I dislike the second idea because it would mean the vast majority of prestiges would be new characters we haven't seen around. It's much better that the prestiges are chacters that we've seen around as non-prestiges before-hand.

Last but not least, there should be a ruling whether Prestiges are to recieve mechanical advantages in events and/or roll fights, and what those mandatory bonuses are to be. IMO, this should remain as-is: at the discretion of event organisers and of 'PvP' opponents in the given situations.

[Dilly]

I must say I like the first suggestion more. The second one is iffy at best, in my opinion - for reasons that have already been stated.

Now, I do have a few suggestions. As good as the templates may be, I think players should still be able to tweak the abilities part before training if they want to do it. Though I think that would require the GMs to approve the edited template for the player.

Also, non-existing templates. I think that... Well, if a player wants to get a class that doesn't have a template, they should make their own - following the format given. But, of course, it should be looked at by a GM and approved or denied. Maybe if the template is good, it could be used not only by the player who made it, but become the "official" one for the class?

Anyway, just throwing stuff out there.

... And making no sense. ._.

[Errata]

The first option does seem more appealing because of all the reasons given above. Else there would be characters new to the world but yet they would have to drive storylines without having connections to other characters.

Dilly makes a good suggestion as well by trying to get the players to add a little flavour of their own to the prestige classes and if so necessary design the templates themselves. A little bit of interactivity can help with getting other players involved in the prestige classes just the same.

[Azheron]

I'm also in for the first one.

It seems much more funktional to me.

[Drumgar]

I rather like both options, because prestige is not "uber powerfulz" it is merely a more focused sub-class, it's not like there would be a huge wealth to gain powerwise, other then personal preference on how a character's abilities coincide with his/her personality, but I like the idea of getting RP out in the world with a storyline, exploring the world and getting a deeper look at places not STV, Ratchet or Major cities, but that's for another thread. I approve. d(^ ^d)

[flammos200]

I'd agree to both options, actually... I mean, first of all, a Prestiege would add just a pinch more depth to a character, and being able to develop it on the fly, through IC roleplay, is all for the better, because more and more of the community get to experience it and have fun together.

After all, fun is why we play games, no?

[Skaar]

I agree with the second suggestion. I did something like it to complete my character's training as a Shaman and so she could earn one's armor. At first she was required to gather herbs, some potions and such. Then her trainer requested her to get some specific items, like leveling quests ones. She was given a staff, which enabled her to use her powers freely. At first she couldn't control them that well. After that. bits of armor and stuff useful like that. I think it's a great way of developing not only one, but more characters, like what happened with me, and make up great plots and storylines. I'm getting quite sick of Tavern Roleplay.

[medusa333]

I support the first suggestion and believe that the process to attain a prestige title should become an easier one. However, I think there should still be some restriction on it to avoid abuse. I would have to agree with Beltharean on this and would suggest a certain time period of being on the server until a prestige title becomes available. Not only would this help to prevent abuse, but it would also give new players time to acclimate to CotH, improving RP skills and such before they 'jump right in there' and take on a prestige title.

[JVNemesis]

Medusa sums up my thoughts nicely, for the most part.
There should definitely be some player interaction when training for one of these classes, or at least somewhere along the line. Otherwise, what's the point of doing it, besides bragging rights?
Option one has my vote.

[SweetSpirit]

I support the first suggestion and believe that the process to attain a prestige title should become an easier one. However, I think there should still be some restriction on it to avoid abuse. I would have to agree with Beltharean on this and would suggest a certain time period of being on the server until a prestige title becomes available. Not only would this help to prevent abuse, but it would also give new players time to acclimate to CotH, improving RP skills and such before they 'jump right in there' and take on a prestige title.

QFT. I also believe this is already in place [Edit: i meant the The time restriction]- and I was hoping both of these suggestions would keep the restrictions in place in some manner. This restriction, quoted from the CotH wiki, is;

http://wiki.conquestofthehorde.com/Pres ... e_Template

You must have played on the server for a minimum of two months

Then again i'm just a nooblet peon ;3

[Nostra]

Oh, yes, we will most definitely have some of the restrictions in place (you have to be a grunt, played for two months etc), and players will be able to influence the templates, not only can you give suggestions for additions/changes to them, but you can also write your own and send in for consideration! That's one of the reasons I mentioned we'd be looking for the community to help with the templates in the OP, hehe.

There should definitely be some player interaction when training for one of these classes, or at least somewhere along the line. Otherwise, what's the point of doing it, besides bragging rights?

Agreed, we really do not want to see anyone having a prestige simply for bragging rights!

Last but not least, there should be a ruling whether Prestiges are to recieve mechanical advantages in events and/or roll fights, and what those mandatory bonuses are to be. IMO, this should remain as-is: at the discretion of event organisers and of 'PvP' opponents in the given situations.

The prestiges will have some advantages by nature, such as certain abilities, but wether they should get bonuses (and, I assume, some of them would be negative as well) or not we'd be willing to let the involved parties decide on their own.

Remember that you all can come up with other ideas for changes that could be made, nothing has been decided so different ideas are welcome, even if you prefer the current system!

[Jeff]

Excellent to hear. Amerason and I have been working on a Barbarian template together. Maybe we can submit it to be reviewed.