Phase GMs.

[Avitz]

I'll 2nd what has been said, the gms have said no...couple of reasons for this...

Abusive - Being able to control hordes of npcs, and using them in ways they shouldn't. Not to mention forts popping up from everywhere, and generally the place becoming cluttered.

Causes lag - wonder why places like Ratchet arena are gone? They caused lag in the server, if it was made by a small group of gms...now imagine if everyone got that command and hey presto, even more lag.

Whilst yes, it sounds a good idea...it would cause more problems than rps it would make better...I think imagination is most likely best here.

[Abishua]

lawl.
This is a suggestions board, Haim.
I'm entitled to speak my own thoughts on what would make this server better, in my own estimation.

CoTH is a great Roleplay server, with an excellent player base.
It, however, lacks a great many features that would put this server at the pinnacle of the Roleplay Community.

The inability to create events in a phased environment is one of the drawbacks of playing here.

Jason - I don't think it seems excessive.
Does the idea of creating your own adventure not appeal to you?
Creating an event where you are not bound by the current limitations of Player Characters only?

Lawl

That doesn't mean I can't discuss the idea with people, regardless if it wouldn't be implemented.

Please Haim, quit being rude to me or quit posting.
Thank you.

Sorry, this is extremely early in the morning so if things come off as rude or harsh, I'm terribly sorry.

lawl

x2

This is a dismissive use of 'lawl', and can be taken offensively.

This is a suggestions board, Haim.
I'm entitled to speak my own thoughts on what would make this server better, in my own estimation.

The use of Hiam is derogatory, and you are allowed to speak your own thoughts but he is not?

Jason - I don't think it seems excessive.
Does the idea of creating your own adventure not appeal to you?
Creating an event where you are not bound by the current limitations of Player Characters only?

Real scottsman fallacy here, to some extent. As for all CoTH-monsters, the creation of our own adventure is pretty appealing. And quality RP is something which we all crave.

Lawl

That doesn't mean I can't discuss the idea with people, regardless if it wouldn't be implemented.

Please Haim, quit being rude to me or quit posting.
Thank you.

Lawl once again, passive aggressive thank you, and quite a bit of the rudeness stems from your end as well.

Hiam simply made his point of view very clear, then emphasized it a second time when you sharpened your definition. He wasn't terribly nice in his first statement, but you can't control what Hiam does only how you react to it. Chillax, it's fine for people to not agree with you.



As for the spawning NPCs/objects. NPCs I'd say no, to avoid clutter and such. Objects? I wouldn't mind having the ability to spawn maybe a camp, a chair, and a few nicknacks for some nifty RP. Other than that, imagination works and the GMs here can be pretty accommodating when it comes to requests for an NPC or object being spawned. So I guess I'm the middle ground guy.

[Wuvvums]

Spawning NPCs- what if they were hostile? And what's the limit to what you'd do with the NPCs you brought in? I mean, you could say that you rped out a fight or event with Illidan.

Here's another thought too, if the NPC you do spawn is hostile what would stop you and your buddies from going to another phase, spawning in some boss/dungeon monster and killing it to get achievements? That'd be an example of using the feature for OOC abuse.

How would we guarantee that the ability would work on one phase only? And how would we despawn when it's done? The phase would possibly get cluttered, and if we had the despawn NPC ability to clean up afterward what if someone used that ability on other NPCs? You could conceptually go to the phase that holds the triggers and despawn them, messing with quests.

Now an NPC that sets you to a different phase would be a much better feature! You could have closed events and such! I am in support of that idea, but not just giving people powers all willy nilly.

[Miah]

While I agree its better that this idea stays just that, an idea, there isn't really a need to start berating the guy. Heck, as far as things go, his responses have been quite tame and calmly put, when people's responses have ranged from opinions on the topic, which are good, to "GM's said no so shut up", which really are not helpful if its only a discussion. *shrug*

[McKnighter]

WoWz nub here, what is phase one and phase two? I'm guessing it's like different copies of the world, phase 1 with all the creeps, two with none. Just my guess, anyone want to tell me wut it is for real, would l0ve you. :3



Anyways, the main reasons I am against this is first of all, Lag. My computer sucks. 512 MB, mother board needs to be replaced, graphic card needs to be updated, it's terrible. More NPC's means more thinks I have to load, which it takes me forever to load into more populated areas.


If NPC's started to became -everywhere-, I simply wouldn't be able to play until I raise enough funds for a new laptop, which won't be for a while because the operation on my shoulder and all the doctor visits and MRI set my family back some. My father requires a new truck, so we're walking on thin ice.



Two, abuse. Yes, there will always be abuse with the system. This abuse can get very out of hand, causing the GM's to have to clean up after people's mess, and making it more work for them. If someone added a 0 to a npc command to spawn 25 Blackrock orcs... Well... You see my point. GM's are trusted, even if they mess up. They are normally experience, and I say leave it up to them. As scary as it sounds, If I don't feel like using imagination, I use normal creeps to look like the NPC's my group and I is fighting. Be creative, that's what helps build the RP.


Anyways, feel free to find something to still argue about. We have a lot of traffic that comes into CotH, and I don't like people gaining so much power that the GM's aren't needed, because they are. They police the RP's, and them having the most control around helps them get involved in the RP. Sure, it would be nice to spawn npc's without GM's, but like I said, it has it drawbacks.


I RP very well without NPC's, mainly because I enjoy RP with others, not pixels.

Anyways, there's my two coppers.

[Seraphim]

I've seen servers like this, where every player has the ability to make whatever they want in their own personal phase. What this does, unfortunately, is create barriers between people where normally RP can be organic and flow from place to place and person to person. It tends to create cliques, where groups of people only play with two or three others, and never have the opportunity to interact with the other players on the server.

Further, policing every single friggin' phase, where there could be thirty or so of them, would be ridiculous to expect of the GMs. If someone decides "I'ma make a Silvermoon where humans are still hangin' out and everybody's a-ridin' on bears, and Kael'Thas is in the bar dancin' with everybody," and it goes unnoticed except by the two people RPing there, it really will decrease the property value of the entire server, so to speak.

I understand the argument that WoW is a visual medium for text-based RP; that was why I initially argued to give players easier access to armor, after the restart. Through Kret's awesometude, that became the .addrpitem command. So, trust me, I get why it seems outwardly reasonable to let people create more of a visually appealing experience for their RP. Unfortunately, the logistics make it impossible, in this case.

If you'd like help with a large-scale event, I'd recommend PMing a GM about it. If your concept is well thought-out, and would really create for engaging roleplay, they'd probably be willing to help spawn some stuff (if their schedule allows it).

This thread is starting to get hostile, in my opinion. While everyone certainly can express their opinions on the topic at hand, I think this is really going to keep bouncing back and forth between, "This is a good idea." "Nuh uh!" "Yeah huh!"

If things continue along that vein, I'm going to lock the thread. Suggestion has been made, GM response has been given, and points have been argued. Everybody good?

Edit: Oh, and McKnighter, you got it right. Phases are just different copies of the world, laid on top of each other. It's how Blizz creates awesome quest-chains where environments are dynamic and change, like in the DK starting area.

[Ometh]

Sorry, this is extremely early in the morning so if things come off as rude or harsh, I'm terribly sorry.
This is a dismissive use of 'lawl', and can be taken offensively.
The use of Hiam is derogatory, and you are allowed to speak your own thoughts but he is not?
Real Scotsman fallacy here, to some extent. As for all CoTH-monsters, the creation of our own adventure is pretty appealing. And quality RP is something which we all crave.
Lawl once again, passive aggressive thank you, and quite a bit of the rudeness stems from your end as well.

Hiam simply made his point of view very clear, then emphasized it a second time when you sharpened your definition. He wasn't terribly nice in his first statement, but you can't control what Hiam does only how you react to it. Chillax, it's fine for people to not agree with you.

As for the spawning NPCs/objects. NPCs I'd say no, to avoid clutter and such. Objects? I wouldn't mind having the ability to spawn maybe a camp, a chair, and a few knickknacks for some nifty RP. Other than that, imagination works and the GMs here can be pretty accommodating when it comes to requests for an NPC or object being spawned. So I guess I'm the middle ground guy.

You perceive it as dismissive, unfortunately, that is not always the case. Lawl/lulz just happens to be what I chiefly use, so apologies there.

The use of Haim isn't derogatory. It merely shows who I am speaking to. Lulz.

As for Scotsman Fallacy, agreed.
In a way, it is, you're right.

It's just a Roleplay helper, what I've stated here.
It helps the quality of RP created by Players, creates a break in the monotonous emote roleplay. You need that in Roleplay. At the D&D table, if you spent all your time in Cities, chatting it up to lone strangers at the bar, you would EASILY become bored. But then, an adventure starts rolling and combat becomes something to break up the monotony of your trip.

Unfortunately, not all of us have the time to wait on a GM to get the ball rolling. Not all of us can wait for an adventure in the afternoon. I work from 2:30 to 10:30, Monday-Friday, sometimes Saturday.

I would like to create my own adventure, set it up exactly to my tastes and invite others to join me for a little bit of fun. But I can't do that so Roleplay has become essentially, "Tavern, person, chat, leave", considering the time restraints imposed upon me.

Oh, of course it is.
If you noticed, Vind and Jason didn't agree with me either but I wasn't rude to them (with the exception of Jason perhaps but I don't particularly care seeing a Spongebob photo with the word "imagination" in a rainbow, lawl. But now it's kind of funny).

The point is clutter is virtually impossible if we can only use these abilities within our own phases. You wouldn't be able to spawn NPCs and Objects outside of your own phase. Not even in other people's phases.

[Ometh]

Spawning NPCs- what if they were hostile? And what's the limit to what you'd do with the NPCs you brought in? I mean, you could say that you rped out a fight or event with Illidan.

Like they say on CoTH, lore characters aren't something you ride the coat tails of.

Here's another thought too, if the NPC you do spawn is hostile what would stop you and your buddies from going to another phase, spawning in some boss/dungeon monster and killing it to get achievements? That'd be an example of using the feature for OOC abuse.

If you acquire 25 people who spawn in a Dungeon Boss, kudos. You'd be hard pressed to spawn in anything you could abuse, aside from normal 5 man dungeon bosses that you could inherently solo on your character anyway.

How would we guarantee that the ability would work on one phase only? And how would we despawn when it's done? The phase would possibly get cluttered, and if we had the despawn NPC ability to clean up afterward what if someone used that ability on other NPCs? You could conceptually go to the phase that holds the triggers and despawn them, messing with quests.

The idea is that GM only options work only in your own phase. A Phase is a trigger in itself and ownership of a phase denotes GM powers, not being in phase itself. Echeloned has a similar phasing ability where you can turn off a variety of functions granted to it's all GM server such as God Mode, Fly Mode, etc.

Now an NPC that sets you to a different phase would be a much better feature! You could have closed events and such! I am in support of that idea, but not just giving people powers all willy nilly.

It's not willy nilly, there is some thought behind this request, you know. :P

[Jason]

[Ometh]

lol. Seraphim, you're next, one sec. :P

[Rigley]

At any rate, I believe it is fairly impossible, even if we -were- to allow something like this, to limit commands to a certain phase.

A system like this wouldn't just require npc adding either- you would need npc delete, and a faction changer, which could be abused -so- hard. Not to mention, some RP situations that might be made could be a problem just on their own (IE: Lets spawn twenty bandits for our two characters to kill, awchea).

For this matter, no means no. Personally I would never support putting something like this through, and I'm fairly sure this sentiment is echoed by the rest of the team. I'll be locking this thread, since I believe Sereph had made mention of doing so in his post up top.