Dual Specialization - Holy and Shadow

[Cepht]

Just had a quick question...

Priests can have dual specializations. For example, you can completely fill in your talent tree with holy or discipline talents, then for a few gold buy the option to set up a separate tree - like shadow. The second tree comes with its own talent points so you don't lose anything by specializing in both. When you switch specialization trees, your mana is drained, so there is time related cost for switching. for my character, the switch wipes him out completely.

As far as roleplay goes, is dual specialization allowed or should it be treated strictly as an ooc feature? For example, is it considered acceptable RP for a holy priest to switch between holy and shadow provided of course that switching is not out of character or out of alignment for him or her? ( ie, for a neutral character )

A priest's ability is based on belief, and not karma, goodness/badness, or personal merit, so it looks like there should be room for a priest who is neutral to switch between shadow and light provided that this does not cause a conflict with his or her alignment.

Just wanted to kick this around and see what others think.

[Etmosril]

It might be possible in lore mechanics, even if the two forces tend towards opposition, but I think it's restricted here to keep priests from being able to resurrect everyone, anytime they want.

My two cents. Some priests on the server have also been required to choose alignments instead of changing them frequently, so it's probably a correct assessment.

[Sol]

The philosophies associated to wielding either end of the Divine magic spectrum are intrinsically opposed. Shadow is focused on egotism whereas the Light is focused on altruism, and you can't simultaneously believe in complete, ruthless self-betterment and giving everything you have to the people who need it. The Forgotten Shadow, which is the main accessible way of wielding religious Shadow magic, is an intentional corruption of the philosophy of the Church of the Holy Light. You can't abide by both at once, and assuming a neutral ground presumably means your faith in either philosophy wouldn't be so strong as to wield the associated magic.

TL;DR - No, I don't think that for a priest, at least, you could dual-specialise.

[McKnighter]

Grakor spoke on this topic before, and I believe he said something along the lines of if you can do it IG, you can do it ICly. /shrug

[Sol]

McKnighter's right, actually. Here's the thread with the post he's referring to:

Questions on Shadow Magic

I didn't check up on that thread to see Grak had replied afterwards, so I apologise for arguing a point that had already been refuted. My bad.

[Darkoak]

Well if you're basing your argument purely around the Church of Holy Light... Then no. Not really. Your character would be highly unlikely to master both. Disc might be a better full spec for your second if you'd like to ICly use both of your specs. But it is considerably worth noting that not all races follow the Holy Light - nor are any priests required to have a care for it in one direction or the other. As stated above, Priests function on personal belief, not any form of dogma. (But I will suggest the Twisted Faith talent as you're going through your shadow spec, as you are likely one twisted soul. ^^)

Assuming you are a Troll/Nelf/Belf/etc so that you are not part of the Church, I see no reason why not play in both Light and Shadow. You're not restricted by overbearing IC dogma, you are more likely to be restricted by OOC misconceptions. I do think an IC sort of "attunement" to one or the other at a specific time should be applied - you obviously shouldn't be rocking Shadowform and Guardian Spirit at the same time. Having your second spec only available for short bouts at a time may be better than having them actually interchangeable, since the two are a bit distanced in practice.

It is worth pointing out at the very least that the rules of the server are you can ICly use all of your class spells that you can obtain, meaning you can use both Light and Shadow spells in the same strain. I know that it doesn't implicitly apply to your specs, but I do see no reason this question should be any different for priests than it is for a Mage trying to figure out how to deal with their separate Fire and Frost specs.

[Jason]

The way I see it, it depends on you view of things. The Light and the Shadow feel like a person imposing their will on the universe, kind of like the Arcane. This will manifests itself through Higher (or Divine) purpose. Or, rather, belief in purpose. You know how it's like "You just gotta beliiiieve!" in Peter Pan? Humorous allusion aside, that's how I generally see it. If your character believes that neither are conflicting, through whatever set of ideals he or she possesses, then it should (in theory) be possible.

That's just my take on it, anyway. Various sources lead me to believe so. Being Wowwiki. And GM's. And CotH guides in general.

[Kaghuros]

Dual Specialization can stand in for a mastery of multiple martial styles as a Warrior, but Shadow and Holy magic are entire changes in ideology. I mean, they can completely change over time if you become selfish and delve into Shadow or vice versa, but switching daily is a bit strange to say the least.

[Grakor456]

McKnighter's right, actually. Here's the thread with the post he's referring to:

Questions on Shadow Magic

I didn't check up on that thread to see Grak had replied afterwards, so I apologise for arguing a point that had already been refuted. My bad.

This is my words being taken out of context. Within the context of this discussion, I said that it's possible for a Priest to know both holy and shadow magic. For example, a Holy Priest can still use Mind Blast, and a Shadow Priest can still use Greater Heal. Too many people seem intent in separating Priests into two different classes, assuming that shadow and light are two concepts that never blend together and are entirely mutually exclusive, which isn't the case either in-game or in the d20, or in any lore that I have personally seen.

This, however, has nothing to do with Dual Spec, which is a separate issue entirely.

Dual Spec is a funny thing. It's a tool for retail to make the game easier for healer and tank classes, a mechanic that doesn't really have much basis in RP. From an RP stand-point, dual-spec simply doesn't really make sense logically. How do I, with a few seconds of concentration, spontaneously forget my techniques for enhancing my fire spells and spontaneously master the use of frost? This can go for any class. It's simply strange. While I wouldn't really be that inclined to get angry over people using dual spec, I don't really see it as being of much use in an RP sense.

[Miah]

I remember this coming up last time. Personal opinion, if your character's belief's mean that they can justify their use of both, then they can use both. But the amount of time it takes to study one would mean, that if you study both, your not likely to be using the most powerfull spells from both, as mastering just one is a huge feat in itself. Being a shadow priest who can occationally call on faith to heal, or being an altruistic holy priest who can occationally unleash divine judgement through shadow seems fine by my logic, but again, just opinion. Both have examples in game and in lore after all.