An appeal to fairness, warlocks, necromancers and the arcane

[Arrillion]

So I heard that warlocks, necromancers and other evil grub are no longer able to use their old skills as a mage due to vague and unrealistic reasons. It has been argued that having warlock abilities as well as mage abilities would be OP, however that seems unlikely to me and I'd like to starts a healthy discussion about this.

My arguments for 'multiclassing':
-Realism: Almost all warlocks and necromancers used to be magi and thus it is only natural they can use the arcane. Several lore warlocks and necromancers confirm this, for example Kel'Thuzad can teleport.
-Fel and Death magic is more powerfull than the arcane, naturally the penalty of using such magic is much more severe. Still, if in many situations a warlock or necromancer would prefer his own magic.
-What you can do extra: actually the use of arcane only adds a couple of abilities which are mostly just convenient. A warlock could teleport for example, or summon a book, maybe enchant an item or use scrying. However in combat the arcane would hardly add anything to a Warlock's/Necromancer's arsenal of skills.
-It's important for warlock and necromancers to be able to use the arcane ICly and OOCly, they should be able to dwell amongst the less evil citizens of Azeroth. If they couldn't use the arcane they would discover as soon as the need to defend arises.
-Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth: It seems warlocks and necromancers are not allowed to be able to use arcane magic anymore, which only adds a few convenient things for rp purposes. However, for some reason Death Knights -are- allowed to be alive, which is actually a similar case, but being alive adds a few convenient rp things as well, such as emotions and other things that death knights naturally shouldn't be able to have.

Hereby I open the discussion....

[Aphetoros]

I rescind my points. I no longer care.=)

[Bovel]

What's the fun in it, really?
Can someone tell me a good reason -WHY- this topic is so important?!


If any magi can cast all spells, then a warrior is a master or all weapons including martial arts, sneaky daggers and ranged weapons.

[BountyHunter]

It's much more fun to RP when someone gives up their prior skills to pursue their ambition ^.^

[Miah]

What's the fun in it, really?
Can someone tell me a good reason -WHY- this topic is so important?!


If any magi can cast all spells, then a warrior is a master or all weapons including martial arts, sneaky daggers and ranged weapons.

Well...Its more simply a case of

"I am warrior! I like to use swords, but from now on, im going to start training in using spears! Uh oh! Now I have forgotten how to use a sword. Herpy derp!"

I still say a warlock could use basic mage magic, if they were one beforehand, they would just be nowhere near as adept as a focussed mage. Mage turned warlock is a kind of jack of all trades, master of none kind of character. If you changed your learning halfway through, your not going to be entirely adept at either.

[Binkleheimer]

No.
Nonononononononononononononononononononono.
if you apply this rule to warlocks, necromancers, etc., then it has to apply to other things on multi-classing.
Like prestiges.
Imagine a Demon Hunter Priest. A big scary fel-powered, Light weilding death machine.
Or maybe a paladin Spell Breaker. A chap who eats spell casters alive now has access to the protection and holy tree. (Tank and heals)
Multi-classing is not good for this RP.
D20? Naturally. Not here though.

[LegendaryFro]

No.
Nonononononononononononononononononononono.
if you apply this rule to warlocks, necromancers, etc., then it has to apply to other things on multi-classing.
Like prestiges.
Imagine a Demon Hunter Priest. A big scary fel-powered, Light weilding death machine.
Or maybe a paladin Spell Breaker. A chap who eats spell casters alive now has access to the protection and holy tree. (Tank and heals)
Multi-classing is not good for this RP.
D20? Naturally. Not here though.

I'm not sure it's as slippery-slopey as you're saying it is. A Demon Hunter priest or paladin spellbreaker isn't the same thing, is it?

From what I understand, it's more like "I am a necromancer, but since I became a necromancer through arcane study, I know basic arcane cantrips and such, like floating books and boiling water". Of course the necromancer wouldn't be able to lob fireballs and conjure up ice storms, or shoot arcane missles and do whatever stuff a pure arcane mage does, but from what I'm understanding we're talking like "magic for dummies" skills.

[Bovel]

"I am warrior! I like to use swords, but from now on, im going to start training in using spears! Uh oh! Now I have forgotten how to use a sword. Herpy derp!"

Anyone can pick up a sword and swing it around, that don't make you a swordsman. People can devote their life to one weapon and still not be a master of it compared to those with more aptitude to the weapon. Same goes for magic; you are good at what you focus at and it's not as easy as just flicking spells out of a book.

[LostStranger]

...Can Warlocks teleport?

Because I'm getting mixed melodies from every which way.

...This GM is of the opinion they can, that GM is not...

Grakor doesn't like it because he wants to stay true to class abilities...

...But no disrespect to the man, Warlocks seriously have a skill in Cataclysm that lets them swap out the souls of two people.

Such a jumble, don't you think?

[BountyHunter]

...it's not as easy as just flicking spells out of a book.

Unless you're an inscriber. . .

Anywho! The reason for Warlocks to be unable to use mage spells is because they use Fel which actually corrupts their magic into Fel Magic. This is why they cannot use the Arcane (Or to the extent mages do).

[LostStranger]

Anywho! The reason for Warlocks to be unable to use mage spells is because they use Fel which actually corrupts their magic into Fel Magic. This is why they cannot use the Arcane (Or to the extent mages do).

Mmhm. Why can't a Necromancer?

And moreover, while I will concede the Fel taint could theoretically snake into all the magic you cast...

...But Warlocks can seriously teleport anyways with Fel magic.

One lore book in game notes that Fel portals can go up to twice the size and last ten times as long as Arcane portals, as one apprentice bemoans to his master.

Likewise, I've never known Fel to necessarily -disrupt- your magic. Spells with the Fel descriptor were in the d20 only more powerful for it or intensified in effect.

Harder to resist or quicker and thus more difficult to evade. This was balanced in lore by how damning and corrupting it was, slavery to demons being the usual result.

Dark magic is powerful -- of which is the real reason why people practice it despite all the stigma and peril.

Still, I'm ultimately feeling quite fine with what abilities are available as is. Just poking at what I see as potential problems with the stance I don't agree with.

[Arrillion]

A similar case is priests, which seem to be able to use both shadow and light, I always thought it wouldn't be possible because they are eachothers opposite, but then I was told it -was- possible to use both. So why not for warlocks?

[Anski]

We've stated in the rules that necromancers give up their entire past skills to pursue death magic. Simple as that.

[Arrillion]

And how about warlocks? Shadowpriests?

[Anski]

We simply don't allow multiclassing on the grounds of it being too overpowered, 'realism' or not.