Death gates.

[Arrillion]

My idea used to be: Death Knights & Necromancers are like paladin and priest. That changed when Blizzard decided to radically change the concept of a Death Knight that's probably to most blatand multiclassing existant.

There's a few notes: I believe Death Knights have their abilities inprinted into their mind when they were ressurected. Logically, no Death Knight could simply learn all of it's skills within a month because it takes mages decades to be able to do what mages to do. Since they have their abilities inprinted by their benefactor the Lich King, it could be possible their abilities have limited uses. For example Death Gate can only be used to teleport themselves to Archerus because they only know the "arcane coordinate" associated to that place. Considering Death Gates: The name says Death Gate, which implies theres some necromantic energy behind it. If it's not the case Blizzard should have named it Shadow gate or whatever. In any case whether they use Necromantic energies, shadow or the arcane. It means either Necromancers, or Shadowmancers, or obviously arcanists would also theoretically be able to cast Death Gates.There's only one logical explanations why the other classes wouldn't be able to make such portals would be the Lich King, who's pretty brilliant. He might have invented a way to create portals with shadow or necromantic energies.

Correction on Bovel's post. Forsaken Necromancers are perfectly able to create undead, but they're not able to create free minded ones.

[Aphetoros]

"Only those who walk the path of the dead may enter."
—Saeryn Dusksorrow

Basically it's a necromancer portal, albeit weaker, only assignable to a specific place.

[Bovel]

"Only those who walk the path of the dead may enter."
—Saeryn Dusksorrow

Or a portal for Scourge only? Or undead only?
Please grasp that we have said that it might be possible for a necromancer to harness other means of going *poof* that it'd be hard or rare or verging on multiclass. So think of something else for Astus, why not give him a spine and some courage so there is no need of flight through poofage.

[Arrillion]

Why so iffy about mutliclassing? Death Knights are the perfect examples of Multiclassing, they can fight, wield plate, use runic, shadow and death magic. I'd call that multiclassing.

Oh, and if the Death Gates are only for undead, I don't see how necro's wouldn't be abe to use them, because most of them are wel...dead.

[Aphetoros]

"Only those who walk the path of the dead may enter."
—Saeryn Dusksorrow

Or a portal for Scourge only? Or undead only?
Please grasp that we have said that it might be possible for a necromancer to harness other means of going *poof* that it'd be hard or rare or verging on multiclass. So think of something else for Astus, why not give him a spine and some courage so there is no need of flight through poofage.

Because he had spine, however after sticking around to fight and dying thrice he's pretty much lost the will to stick around for things to go south. He'll only fight a battle he knows he can win. Besides, I'm leery of changing a character for OOC reasons.

Why so iffy about mutliclassing? Death Knights are the perfect examples of Multiclassing, they can fight, wield plate, use runic, shadow and death magic. I'd call that multiclassing.

Oh, and if the Death Gates are only for undead, I don't see how necro's wouldn't be abe to use them, because most of them are wel...dead.

And yes, why are we so iffy about multiclassing? I know Grakor's reasoning:

I've spoken on this subject so often that I have little desire to do so again. The short answer is, it's a matter of fairness and balance. If a Warlock can cast all the spells a Mage can cast, there's no reason to play a Mage. I also subscribe to the belief that Mages themselves are a specialization that takes as much focus and concentration as learning Warlockry, and knowing both is bordering on the ridiculous.

However, I disagree with this (although I won't argue against his judgement) simply because a warlock would definitely be proficient in hardly anything as a mage. As Tavren constantly demonstrates (although I've been trying to tell him we're not supposed to do it ICly) he uses a fel variant on blink (a short teleport mage spell for those who don't know) and from what I've seen at the least, he's hardly proficient in anything else a mage could do. In fact, it's the only mage spell I've seen him use and he does a good job of not overpowering it. (I don't know if he's got GM permission for that sort of thing though, so don't ask me about it, please.)

Regardless to that, all I'm saying is. We should not limit our characters for OOC reasons, because once we become too strict things become less fun and gratifying in the end for everyone. All I know is a warlock able to use certain skills of the mage wouldn't be tossing around arcane missiles and shooting lances of frost, they'd only do things beneficial to them. Meager teleportations or portals and possibly (rarely) conjuring food. I know this won't happen here, but I just would find such a prospect much more enjoyable and much more realistic.

I see his fear is people not playing certain classes, but I think such a thing wouldn't happen. And clearly such things are already defined, but a moral compass is the saviour. See Antonidas's journal, for example.

Spoiler:

quote]Journal of Archmage Antonidas

Oct 8.
As I have said before, I am becoming increasingly disturbed by the dangerously vast potential of certain schools of magic, and the contrasting amount of laws and boundaries that should be set to limit them. Furthermore, comprehensive research on these volatile schools shows a trend of decreasing academic prerequisites yielding increasingly powerful outcomes.

A student of mine asked me today, "Why are there so many limitations on traditional portals, when Fel portals can be made twice as large and last ten times as long?" The student was not yet educated in the abstraction of what is practical versus what is achievable, yet the question held within me a certain duality: What future is there for the established practices of magic when so many wild variations threaten to overshadow them?

I do all I can to stifle studies of Fel magics and necromancy here, yet I find myself both disturbed and enthralled by their potential. I refuse to believe that that their efficiency so soundly trumps the common criticisms of being unstable or "evil" that these schools hold the monopoly of avenues for magical progress. Yet when witnessing the massive infernal for one's self, or seeing acres of land blighted at the wave of an hand, I fear my beliefs may soon shift from gospel to dogma in the minds of my peers.

Oct 16.

My primary focus has shifted to research of the plague that ravages the north. I've canceled most of my classes to focus on research of this terrible anomaly.
With immense precaution I've procured a shipment of the infested grain. Immediately I was both impressed and suspicious with how innocuous the whole package presented itself. There was no discoloration, no discernable odor, and no variation at all from any other sheaf of grain.
At that moment it was no longer a mystery of this plague spread so quickly.

Oct 17.
Further study of the plague has yielded disturbing conclusions, and even more disturbing implications.
Initial testing showed the plague had only minor effects on non-human creatures. Symptoms ranged from fatigue, nausea, fever, to minor hallucinations, but rarely resulted in death. On human tissue, however, the plague acts uniformly and unprecedented expediency towards necrosis.

It would be foolish to think that such an efficient human killer only being found in human rations is a coincidence. While it's certainly possible that these two occurrences are unrelated, I've decided to delegate more resources towards finding the source of this plague, for I fear there are intelligent hands pushing it upon our kin.

More research must be done here at Dalaran, however, I will decide who to investigate in my stead at a later date, after some heavy deliberation.

Oct 18.

I've stumbled upon a key factor of this plague, one so cleverly hidden in its methodology that I've come to two immutable conclusions: That its development was for the singular prupose of ending human life, and its inception was at the hands of an intelligent being.
Long term affliction of the plague causes a certain reanimation of activity in the dead. This activity is very small at first, and I disregarded it as a minor side-effect. However, this energy remained persistent and unwavering. A thought struck me, one which was both surprising and strong: The corpse was waiting for something.

At that moment I did not have any evidence to prove it, but I nonetheless spent time pursuing it. I used my limited knowledge of necromancy and casted simple curses on the corpse. At the time I had no motivation to raise the dead, only to change or distinguish the radiating energy off the corpse. Imagine my surprise when it sprung to life and attacked me.

I did not hesitate to incinerate it to dust, and I now regret doing so. But I was able to prove my unprovoked theory, that the corpse (and by extension the plague that saturates it) was indeed waiting for further commands. It's clear that those who die by this plague are only lying dormant in their graves, awaiting one skillful in necromancy to awaken them.

In short, it is indisputable that the plague is magical in nature.

Oct 20.

I have decided to send my most trusted disciple, Jaina Proudmoore, to investigate the source of the plague. Based on my research, I believe only my skillful disciple will be able to handle the unknown challenges that await such an endeavor. She will take with her a copy of this journal and my other research documents regarding the plague. Indeed I will make it public, for all people need to become aware of this imminent threat.

I only wish I could investigate it myself, but Terenas has proved to be predictably stubborn to my requests. It is paramount that I convince him to quarantine the north. Little else matters at this point in time. Regardless, I have the fullest faith in Jaina's cunning. If she or I cannot put an end to this infestation, I doubt anyone can.

-Antonidas-
<This is marked with the seal of the Council of Six> [/quote]

Regardless, just some food for thought.

[Aphetoros]

Also, that reminds me. IF we're allowing felsworn (basically hyped up warlocks) to teleport, why not necromancers? It's not that much of a stretch, same category really. Still 'multiclassing' really.

Which brings me to another point. Necromancer. Pyromancer. Hydromancer. They're all mages. Saying a necromancer cannot teleport is like telling a pyromancer (Aka firemage) can't teleport. Just sayin'.

edit: And again, I'm not asking to throw arcane bombs or pyroblasts. Basic spells only apply here, and useful spells. Such as teleportation. I mean, saying a necromancer delves so far into their art they give up their other knowledge is like, again, saying a pyromancer can only use fire magic and nothing else. Sure, a pyromage might really only ever use pyromagic, but nothing is stopping one from teleporting, and by association, nor should a necromancer be. And warlocks to a lesser extent. In fact, did you know a fel portal is
twice as large and last ten times as long"? (-Antonidas)

[LostStranger]

As Tavren constantly demonstrates (although I've been trying to tell him we're not supposed to do it ICly) he uses a fel variant on blink (a short teleport mage spell for those who don't know) and from what I've seen at the least, he's hardly proficient in anything else a mage could do.

MrBubbles informed me I shouldn't be using Blink. It was a quintessential defensive spell for me, but...

...I supposed I could constrain that to Demon Circle.

Mm. I'm not fond of the multiclassing ruling myself, but it's not my decision. It's the server faculty that will choose the law of their land.

Additionally, I had Tavren wear a metal breastplate under a robe in concordance with this visual, but Nexi was swift to deem the idea unacceptable upon her discovery.

I was immediately frustrated, but I've since gotten over it.

Spoiler:

The color helps me imply I carry the authority of GM approval when I'm really acting on my own!

Yaaaaay!

[Aphetoros]

I agree with you. I don't want to be able to toss around bolts of arcane thunder, as I've said. I just want to have realistic RP, because the whole thing about 'no reason to play X if X can do it' is invalid. The reason?

Why play a warrior if a paladin can fight AND use ranged and more powerful attacks?
Why play a rogue if a hunter can (ICly) use melee and be stealthy, have a pet AND use ranged attacks?
Why play a priest if a paladin can fight AND use the Light?
Why play a rogue if a warrior can be stealthy and use poisons and duel wield and wear plate?
Why play a mage if a shaman can cast, fight melee, heal, and wear heavy armor?
Why play anything if a druid can do it too?
Why play a warrior, hunter, warlock, or mage if a death knight can melee fight, cast, summon minions, wear insanely heavy armor, not feel pain, not tire, not rest?

These are all the same question as:
Why play a mage if a necromancer and warlock can do the same things?

It's a different RP experience. Each class is better at their own thing, even if another class can do it as well. (most) Mages aren't evil, they're good guys who do good things usually, while necromancers and warlocks (most of 'em) are evil or insane/power hungry. Even when lore examples provide examples of this exact question ICly.
"What future is there for the established practices of magic when so many wild variations threaten to overshadow them?

I do all I can to stifle studies of Fel magics and necromancy here, yet I find myself both disturbed and enthralled by their potential. I refuse to believe that that their efficiency so soundly trumps the common criticisms of being unstable or "evil" that these schools hold the monopoly of avenues for magical progress. Yet when witnessing the massive infernal for one's self, or seeing acres of land blighted at the wave of an hand, I fear my beliefs may soon shift from gospel to dogma in the minds of my peers. " -- Antonidas.

Things are apparently, if this lore piece is correct it is supposed to be that way.

[LostStranger]

Isn't it neat that Mages can't dispel magic?

...Though there are all sorts of neat abilities that they do get, such as making people into incendiary explosives.

...Or bending time itself.

Deny gravity? No problem.

Outnumbered? Make three more of yourself.

See a big bad? Transform it into something smaller and crush it.




Why would you even want to be a Warlock?

Perhaps because you can rip the soul out of someone and put it in another body?

Maybe cause giant imps to explode out of people's flesh.

Call down torrents of flaming meteors from the sky.

Set someone's very soul ablaze.

Summon epicly powerful demons.

I don't recall where I was going with this, but...

I'm going to post it anyways on the grounds that the links make me sound like I know what I'm babbling about.

[Brutalskars]

Alright. Well my basic idea remains.

I believe in basic 'multi-classing'. Necromancers and warlocks in lore can teleport without long crazy rituals. Necromancers are no stronger than mages. There are necromancers that use fire magic in lore. There are a lot of battle mages and spell breakers in lore, why are they prestige? According to that logic, most of the army of Silvermoon are prestige characters, except for the 'elite' blood knights since they are paladins and paladins are a normal class.

Then we can look to other ideas. Like there is nothing really in lore saying a mage cannot cast acid attacks like a lance of acid compared to a lance of ice. When we as players can treat it as something cool looking and treat the damage the same level as that ice lance. Or perhaps shooting lightning? Because every mage in the second war shot lightning it seems.

Someone can learn a minor amount of arcane on ahunter and use arcane shots or magical temporary poisons. Why can't a warrior learn basic arcane sacrificing a bit of their martial ability like only wearing chainmail or leather at max while they cast. Keeping on that chain of logic; magic can be involved with just about anything. I would say, we may be thinking 'too hard'? But I do not want to be offensive. What I am trying to say is that.

And you know, we will play a class if we like the 'ROLEPLAYING FLAVOR/THEME' of said class. I understand we are trying to find a proper way that our Necromancers can teleport by convincing everyone there is an in game solution. Why not look at the lore solution, Necromancers/Acolytes may teleport. My first and only example for now is in Warcraft 3, in the first Scourge Mission. Acolytes you gather cast an unholy wreath of shadow-green material around them that phases them out of existance and they appear again. Like a mage teleporting themselves.

[Aphetoros]

Right, I agree with the above. I'm not sure what else we can say here, but do we really need such an... OOC concept defining our characters?

[FlyingSquirrel]

Right, I agree with the above. I'm not sure what else we can say here, but do we really need such an... OOC concept defining our characters?

Then people over-play their power, and become way too OP.

[Aphetoros]

That doesn't make sense. A pyromancer overplays their power by casting a portal. What?

[muhaha8]

Right, I agree with the above. I'm not sure what else we can say here, but do we really need such an... OOC concept defining our characters?

Then people over-play their power, and become way too OP.

I believe he is applying that statement to this subject specifically, Danal. I wouldn't freak out if I saw a Fel user teleport... So long as they don't go "Across Azeroth" or something, and were actually a straight-up mage before they dabbled in Fel. Just... Limit the distance you can teleport to maybe, a mile or two. And leave it with that...

[Aphetoros]

Yeah. I'd really like someone to bring up a valid argument against multiclassing other than the one's stated so far. It'd really help us understand because a lot of us don't. :3