Feedback plixplz (Too early?)

[FlyingSquirrel]

Yes, but this is a Feedback thread. This is a place for me to post my opinions about her characters, and that's what I'm doing.

[Xigo]

Let's be mindful of our tone of text. Sometimes its best to take a lighter tone with things, because to be heavy only causes issues.

The thing concerning Draenei for me is just how... old they are. How many hardships they've gone through. And, after all those years, how long the Light and the Naaru have protected them. To turn against those is like... well... very bad, in Draenei society. Whilst they would normally be okay with many things 'Eh, you're into same gender? Okay, sure', I have my doubts as to whether they would be 'Eh, so you worship the polar opposite of the Light, which protects us every day? Okay, sure'.

I have only encountered Jynxi, and am thus far... well... I don't like the idea of a Draenei Pirate Shaman.

I think the elements would be angry at being used for piracy. I don't think a Draenei would become a pirate. And... well... eh. Draenei tend to be on the 'good' scale, if only because the evil ones tend to either be dead or Eredar.

I don't really care about the sexuality of a character. Ultimately, that should be the player's decision, because as mentioned, there is no lore backing views on sexuality. So that's entirely up to the players. If someone wants to make every one of their characters straight, or bi, or a homosexual... well, it's their choice.

Unless someone can back the 'we need to repopulate' argument with lore, I don't think we should assume what the Draenei's point of view on the matter is. Perhaps that's what your character believes. But it might not be the beliefs of another.

Still. I would like to advise you just... I dunno. Make more lore-y characters.

EDIT: Concerning warlocks. Draenei, in my opinion, really just care about alignment. If you can wield an evil weapon, yet still remain on the 'good' side of things, I think the Draenei would still be on good terms with you.

Argent Warlocks are generally good guys. Evil ones tend to get kicked out quickly.

Once again, how a Draenei acts concerning Warlocks and Shadow Priests is totally up to the player. It's just I personally believe that if you're an honest to god good aligned Warlock, then the Draenei would not be out to kill you. On the flip side, if you're an evil aligned Warlock, watch it.

EDIT2: THE GMS ARE ALL CORRUPT!

EDIT3: MIND YOU THIS IS ALL MY OPINION!

EDIT4: GEEZ, THIS TOPIC IS REALLY EXPLODING!

EDIT5: CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR COOL!

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, Xigo, the Warlock thing is correct, but we're talking about Tavren. He is not an Argent Warlock. Fel, he has a Doomguard.

EDIT: Don't know why I added in the Doomguard. You should know this.

[DiesUltime]

Dal, I think you need to take a breather mate. You seem to be getting way too worked up over this.

[Xigo]

Wait, Tavren has a Doomguard?

Regardless, I believe he was swiftly kicked out of the Argent Crusade.

Even if he weren't. There was a metric ton of limitations placed upon him whilst he had that Doomguard (if he ever actually had one, I think you might be lying).

[MrBubbles]

Yes, but this is a Feedback thread. This is a place for me to post my opinions about her characters, and that's what I'm doing.

It has gotten to the point where you're no longer sharing your opinions, but rather you're forcing your viewpoints on hiddengecko and telling him/her that the way he/she portrays his/her character is utterly wrong.

You're coming off as elitist and haughty, whether or not that was your intention.

I will warn you now, do not dictate how others should play their characters. They are their characters, not yours.


Feedback threads are not places for flame wars. Chillax, folks, before I have to lock this thread.

[Miah]

At no point would anyone say "You play two straight characters, isn't that just a little bit of OOC influence?"

Some things, such as general appearance, or origins, are unchangable lore. The parts we, as roleplayers can customise is the personality of characters, extending into sexuality, strength of will, and other such attributes. Everyone has something that they seem to always play, and always seem to go back to. For me, its smaller, or weaker characters who somehow gain power. I play this archetype quite a lot, to because thats just what I enjoy. For one player to have two non heterosexual characters isn't exactly going to "oversaturate" the sexuality balance, as for one, this player would only play one at a time. For two, sexuality isn't anything that is really ever going to be the sole focus of a character. Unless a character revolves around their sexuality, rather than their class or otherwise, it shouldn't be any more of a "problem" than someone playing two alchemist characters, or two paladins. Its just one aspect of a more complex character.

To sum up, I wouldn't ever say "Draenei are lawful good, ergo why would they have homosexual or bisexual relationships?" Its just not relevant, a bisexual character can be just as reserved or outlandish, moral or immoral, as any other character. I don't beleive the draenei would be adverse to alternative sexualities, but to promiscuity, or sexual openness. I see them as reserved, as in "It happens, but whatever happens, just show some dignity and keep it to yourselves." If someone broke out from this, they would be frowned upon, but thats about it.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Alright. I suppose that the internet's failure to convey emotions once again got in the way. I'll stop posting in the thread, although I still stand by what I said.

And Miah, that was a personal thing.

[hiddengecko]

Please read this knowing I love you all and do not mean to sound angry, even if I smolder with generic rage.

I'm only asking for feedback on characters I am uncertain about. I have two lesbian/bisexual characters. Admittedly, this is because it is easier for me to write for this sort of thing as a straight male. However, three of my currently-used characters are straight, and two of those are straight women. I have two characters on the way which I plan to activate soon (one of both genders) and both of those are straight. I have not asked for feedback on most of them because they are either not active enough or not controversial enough for me to be concerned about OOC opinions on them--and in some cases, because I like to have covert alts so I can escape OOC drama if needed.

On Jynxi: Yes, the draenei shaman pirate was a bad idea. Granted, I'm pretty sure the elements are neutral--some good, some evil, but largely neutral, but still not the best idea. I did it because it was fun to RP. She never even engaged in piracy; the only thing she ever did for them was help repair the ship and heal injured crewmates; she was never even present for a job. The one instance of theft she witnessed she reacted to with disappointment and an angry chastisement--and she certainly didn't help with it. She is not even with the Bloodstone now, and additionally I have begun to change her character very significantly. As I said before, she was a troll character--it was fun while it lasted, but if I want to take her seriously I am going to have to change things. Your criticisms on Jynxi are valid, and I thank you for your honesty.

Regarding Antia's motivations: She isn't abandoning the light; she just views it as finite but helpful. She doesn't worship shadow, nor does she view it as the opposite of light except in a cosmetic or possibly symbolic sense. She studies the shadow, and hopes to use it in order to protect herself, her people, and innocents in general. She has gone from viewing the light as a savior to viewing it as a useful source of magic. Shadow is not a faith to her, or even a philosophy: It is a weapon.

From what I have read, the draenei didn't encounter the Legion after they left Argus until Draenor. They would hit a planet, stay for a short time, and take off, keeping one step ahead of the Legion. Antia had never seen a demon in person, had no real experience with violence, nor any personal appreciation for the atrocities the Legion would commit if they caught up with them. When they did, she was in no way emotionally prepared for what happened. Antia watched her people torn apart by the fel orcs, had her home torn apart by their attempted portal spam, and watched people she cared about become Broken--in her eyes, abandoned by the light. It isn't meant to be logical; I deliberately based her motivations on a gaping character flaw.

Also, yes, she has "hung out" with warlocks. Admittedly, clearly evil warlocks--although in a pragmatic, reasonable sense. This isn't because she likes them, or because they are friends--it's because when she found herself with them accidentally, she deliberately played up her own neutrality and avoided attacking them because she knew she would be killed if she tried. She witnessed Tavren commit a murder. Rather than attack him, she simply said that it was "regrettable" and that he should have avoided necessary killing. She further stated quite honestly that she wasn't going to react to it violently because it would not bring back the dead, and would simply get her killed futilely.

The only reason she continued to be in any way near Tavren is because she knew he may well have decided to kill her if she refuses to do as he says. While she's with him, she might as well remain polite and professional, and avoid making enemies if possible. So far, this has worked out fairly well for her, as she's gotten some very informative tomes on shadow magic, a powerful shadow spell focus, and a source of information. She's taking advantage of something that was, essentially, forced upon her. She hates it, but there was little other choice short of pointlessly risking her life simply to escape having to witness evil things being done. Instead. she plays nice, and has in fact managed to protect some of the White Sun's victims from the inside whilst building up her own power.

Also, as Antia has pointed out in character--it's much easier to hate someone you don't actually know. It's easy to hate those damned warlocks who destroyed our people and murdered everyone, ever. It's a bit more difficult to hate the charismatic, courteous man you are playing a quiet game of chess with over tea, even if you probably should.

Antia isn't evil. Antia is--at worst--lying to herself and saying she's neutral. It is an act, because I wanted to see what happened if I took out the honor-before-reason component of draenei ethics and simply made an end-justifies-the-means Sour Knight.

Really, Dan, I see where you're coming from, but have you even RPed with Antia? If I'm wrong, I do apologize, but it sounds like you're basing this on what we say about her story OOCly--and OOC GMI trolling isn't really an accurate source of information regarding character development. "Lololol so Antia had a tea party with Tavren and then maed his babeez" while jumping around in circles is not meant to be taken seriously.

I do want some feedback on my character design, but as I've already gotten Antia approved and gone through the draenei-lore slappyfight, I was more interested in how my actual RP was: writing dialogue convincingly, not godmoding or metagaming, keeping a character's motivations in mind.

If I'm overreacting, then I apologize--and as I said, I appreciate your feedback, even if I disagree with it and try to counter every point you make. It is a good thing to have my logic questioned; I don't mean to make this personal.

[Zarquon]

Greetings,

NOTE: Do not tl;dr this. It might be slightly controversial. Anything that touches on racism often are. So if you tl;dr this, and misunderstand, or fixate upon a single sentence and miss the entire context of the post, or fixate upon a single word and miss the hollistic overview, you will find yourself missing the point of the post and the entirety of its meaning. So to facilitate this, I will apologize in advance! =D -Endnote-

I actually have RP'd with both Antia and Jynxi before on various characters, and in my own humble opinion, I think that she RPs both of them quite well, portraying realistic emotions in the -context- of their history, experiences and mannerisms. For all that I know about Antia, she ought to be an apathetical, shadow-corrupted, twisted fiend of a Draenei, but instead, for all that she portrays such an exterior mask, she nonetheless conforms to a muted yet pragmatic (in her unique situation, especially) form of "goodness" as she tries to alleviate the sufferings of the victims to the best of her abilities. Jynxi, on the other hand, still has the naive tone that most Draeneis have, and contains to an extent much of the innocence that I would expect to find in Draeneis. Sure, she's a shaman and a pirate, but then again, I would like to go on to this thought of mine that keeps swimming about in my head. . .

I am a literature freak, and to anybody who reads "To Kill a Mockingbird", this would be familiar, (btw I love Atticus! <3). This particular quote comes from the courtcase scene in the book, and remains to be a lesson that I hold dear to myself whenever I see another person, to remember never to judge someone by associations or by depiction. Quote: "that you gentlemen would go along with them on the assumption - the evil assumption - that all Negroes lie, that all Negroes are basically immoral beings, that all Negro men are not to be trusted around our women, an assumption one associates with minds of their caliber. Which, gentlemen, we know is in itself a lie as black as Tom Robinson's skin, a lie I do not have to point out to you. You know the truth, and the truth is this: some Negroes lie, some Negroes are mimoral, some Negro men are not to be trusted around women - black or white. But this is a truth that applies to the human race and to no particular race of men.

I am extremely against racism, for personally, I think that it is bigotry and xenophobia of the worst kind to ever judge another sentient being by his or her race. And hence this message goes out to:
All dwarves who don't like beer.
All Sin'doreis who arn't arrogant bastards.
All gnomes who don't like being punted (Pollie ftw!
All Kal'doreis who don't like animals.
All goblins who are actually altrusitic and arn't selfish little things.
All orcs who think that honor is for the weak and that only victory matters.
All taurens that feel that the Earthmother isn't doing enough for them.
All trolls who wear tuxedoes, speak perfect common, and are educated. -Sagenods-
All Draeneis who think that for all they have sacrificed, Light had only failed them, and is nothing more then propogandic lies.

Do not generalize. Do not assume. Do not, at any situation, ever. Ever. Say that, "All Draeneis are good. All Draeneis follow the Holy Light. All Draeneis would never turn to Shadow. All Draeneis are naive. All Draeneis speak accented Common." Never. Because when you do that, you are destroying the individualism in every single sentient being, you are doing nothing more then portraying bigotry and racism of the worst kind. This mentality is a mentality that we take from the real world and throw it into the gaming world. This mentality is wrong. Not all Chinese speaks bad english, farms gold, has no life, doesn't real books, don't play games for enjoyment sake and yada yada.

F.Y.I. I am Chinese. I study Literature in English. I read Shakespeare's works. I am better at English in school then I am in Chinese.

Danalthar, I respect your opinions, and I respect you as a person. So please respect Hiddengecko's rights to his own individualistic beliefs and his freedom of thoughts. As far as I am concerned, his characters follow hundred-and-one percent to the lore. For example, his Draeneis have tails. I think that's pretty lore-y. They have hooves, too. Maybe we should start opening our eyes to see what's -right- in this world. There are enough tragedies going on across the globe for us to close our eyes to merriment. As far as I am concerned, not only is Hiddengecko following the lore and being an awesome roleplayer, he is also being creative. He is able to visualize a character that had followed this horrible path, swept by the currents of fate and smothered by the inexorable tides of time, unable to dictate her own path or control her own life. And he visualizes said character's adaptation to this; Antia is pragmatic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, in fact, there is absolutely everything right about it, because not all Good people have to be Stupid as well. Maybe Antia isn't omniscient, maybe she isn't god, maybe she isn't capable of plotting out whats right and whats wrong and make the best decision. So Antia made a decision that she could live with, that she felt was the best she could do; whatever she did with Tavren. Did Antia give up then? No, she manipulated her situation to try to help those that Tavren captured, to try to do a bit of good in a world turned upside down by evil.

On a final matter, which is debatable, but I guess thats really the whole point. I myself am a little homophobic, mainly due to cultural influences and such, but in my own humble opinion, I do not see myself, you, us, or anybody as deserving the rights, capable of or having the ability whatsoever to judge another person on his or her sexual preferences. What I mean is, OOC-ly, we should be mature enough to understand that it is a complete possibility, that it is ultimately a matter entirely of preferences and individualism. Simply said, I don't -care- if Antia wants to mate with beasts or hump a tree, pardon my language, and I can assure you, my care or lack of it have absolutely no bearings whatsoever on whether that is a possibility or not. I mean, if you want, you can eat a thousand pills now because you honestly think Cthulhu whispered that instruction into your brains and the only thing you should do in life is to carry out his instructions, and no amount of me bitching about it would change a thing. It is entirely up to the person in question. It is his character. And it is her, Antia's, choice. In fact, as far as I know, in real life, it is actually illegal to discriminate homosexuality in the United States, these actions classified as Hate Crimes and punishable by law under the "Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act." Of course, I am not American and hence I might be wrong; I am certain that you, or tens of millions other people, would know about their own domestic policies much better then I do.

In a nutshell, respect the individualistic rights of others in creating characters. Respect the fact that race =/= individual and history =/= present. People change. People adapt. People choose. People do clever things. People do stupid things. Its all up to the individual, its all up to their choice. I honestly don't see as implausible if Antia decides one day that the Light fails, Shadow is too dreary, and decides to pursue Shamanism, finding peace in the wisdom of the spirits of Azeroth. Its really up to her. I can walk out and jump down the building if I want, its really up to me, no? Be merry, people; sometimes, we are just too rigid, too fixated upon our own points and our own beliefs.

Thank you very much for your time if you are reading this, and thank you very much for your attention. I wish you a joyous and merry 2011, and a successful future ahead!

Yours sincerely,
Zarquon

{Written on ze iPadz, for ze lulz!}

[Jurkey]

This really proves what CotH has turned into. People only comment on something if they can critize it... if they can't say anything bad? Well, then they don't.

I'm not trying to target this at anyone, but it's basically a general thing.
Well, that was kinda of off-topic, I actually just wanted to write this...

"^ This"

[hiddengecko]

Spoiler:

Greetings,

NOTE: Do not tl;dr this. It might be slightly controversial. Anything that touches on racism often are. So if you tl;dr this, and misunderstand, or fixate upon a single sentence and miss the entire context of the post, or fixate upon a single word and miss the hollistic overview, you will find yourself missing the point of the post and the entirety of its meaning. So to facilitate this, I will apologize in advance! =D -Endnote-

I actually have RP'd with both Antia and Jynxi before on various characters, and in my own humble opinion, I think that she RPs both of them quite well, portraying realistic emotions in the -context- of their history, experiences and mannerisms. For all that I know about Antia, she ought to be an apathetical, shadow-corrupted, twisted fiend of a Draenei, but instead, for all that she portrays such an exterior mask, she nonetheless conforms to a muted yet pragmatic (in her unique situation, especially) form of "goodness" as she tries to alleviate the sufferings of the victims to the best of her abilities. Jynxi, on the other hand, still has the naive tone that most Draeneis have, and contains to an extent much of the innocence that I would expect to find in Draeneis. Sure, she's a shaman and a pirate, but then again, I would like to go on to this thought of mine that keeps swimming about in my head. . .

I am a literature freak, and to anybody who reads "To Kill a Mockingbird", this would be familiar, (btw I love Atticus! <3). This particular quote comes from the courtcase scene in the book, and remains to be a lesson that I hold dear to myself whenever I see another person, to remember never to judge someone by associations or by depiction. Quote: "that you gentlemen would go along with them on the assumption - the evil assumption - that all Negroes lie, that all Negroes are basically immoral beings, that all Negro men are not to be trusted around our women, an assumption one associates with minds of their caliber. Which, gentlemen, we know is in itself a lie as black as Tom Robinson's skin, a lie I do not have to point out to you. You know the truth, and the truth is this: some Negroes lie, some Negroes are mimoral, some Negro men are not to be trusted around women - black or white. But this is a truth that applies to the human race and to no particular race of men.

I am extremely against racism, for personally, I think that it is bigotry and xenophobia of the worst kind to ever judge another sentient being by his or her race. And hence this message goes out to:
All dwarves who don't like beer.
All Sin'doreis who arn't arrogant bastards.
All gnomes who don't like being punted (Pollie ftw!
All Kal'doreis who don't like animals.
All goblins who are actually altrusitic and arn't selfish little things.
All orcs who think that honor is for the weak and that only victory matters.
All taurens that feel that the Earthmother isn't doing enough for them.
All trolls who wear tuxedoes, speak perfect common, and are educated. -Sagenods-
All Draeneis who think that for all they have sacrificed, Light had only failed them, and is nothing more then propogandic lies.

Do not generalize. Do not assume. Do not, at any situation, ever. Ever. Say that, "All Draeneis are good. All Draeneis follow the Holy Light. All Draeneis would never turn to Shadow. All Draeneis are naive. All Draeneis speak accented Common." Never. Because when you do that, you are destroying the individualism in every single sentient being, you are doing nothing more then portraying bigotry and racism of the worst kind. This mentality is a mentality that we take from the real world and throw it into the gaming world. This mentality is wrong. Not all Chinese speaks bad english, farms gold, has no life, doesn't real books, don't play games for enjoyment sake and yada yada.

F.Y.I. I am Chinese. I study Literature in English. I read Shakespeare's works. I am better at English in school then I am in Chinese.

Danalthar, I respect your opinions, and I respect you as a person. So please respect Hiddengecko's rights to his own individualistic beliefs and his freedom of thoughts. As far as I am concerned, his characters follow hundred-and-one percent to the lore. For example, his Draeneis have tails. I think that's pretty lore-y. They have hooves, too. Maybe we should start opening our eyes to see what's -right- in this world. There are enough tragedies going on across the globe for us to close our eyes to merriment. As far as I am concerned, not only is Hiddengecko following the lore and being an awesome roleplayer, he is also being creative. He is able to visualize a character that had followed this horrible path, swept by the currents of fate and smothered by the inexorable tides of time, unable to dictate her own path or control her own life. And he visualizes said character's adaptation to this; Antia is pragmatic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, in fact, there is absolutely everything right about it, because not all Good people have to be Stupid as well. Maybe Antia isn't omniscient, maybe she isn't god, maybe she isn't capable of plotting out whats right and whats wrong and make the best decision. So Antia made a decision that she could live with, that she felt was the best she could do; whatever she did with Tavren. Did Antia give up then? No, she manipulated her situation to try to help those that Tavren captured, to try to do a bit of good in a world turned upside down by evil.

On a final matter, which is debatable, but I guess thats really the whole point. I myself am a little homophobic, mainly due to cultural influences and such, but in my own humble opinion, I do not see myself, you, us, or anybody as deserving the rights, capable of or having the ability whatsoever to judge another person on his or her sexual preferences. What I mean is, OOC-ly, we should be mature enough to understand that it is a complete possibility, that it is ultimately a matter entirely of preferences and individualism. Simply said, I don't -care- if Antia wants to mate with beasts or hump a tree, pardon my language, and I can assure you, my care or lack of it have absolutely no bearings whatsoever on whether that is a possibility or not. I mean, if you want, you can eat a thousand pills now because you honestly think Cthulhu whispered that instruction into your brains and the only thing you should do in life is to carry out his instructions, and no amount of me bitching about it would change a thing. It is entirely up to the person in question. It is his character. And it is her, Antia's, choice. In fact, as far as I know, in real life, it is actually illegal to discriminate homosexuality in the United States, these actions classified as Hate Crimes and punishable by law under the "Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act." Of course, I am not American and hence I might be wrong; I am certain that you, or tens of millions other people, would know about their own domestic policies much better then I do.

In a nutshell, respect the individualistic rights of others in creating characters. Respect the fact that race =/= individual and history =/= present. People change. People adapt. People choose. People do clever things. People do stupid things. Its all up to the individual, its all up to their choice. I honestly don't see as implausible if Antia decides one day that the Light fails, Shadow is too dreary, and decides to pursue Shamanism, finding peace in the wisdom of the spirits of Azeroth. Its really up to her. I can walk out and jump down the building if I want, its really up to me, no? Be merry, people; sometimes, we are just too rigid, too fixated upon our own points and our own beliefs.

Thank you very much for your time if you are reading this, and thank you very much for your attention. I wish you a joyous and merry 2011, and a successful future ahead!

Yours sincerely,
Zarquon

{Written on ze iPadz, for ze lulz!}

I hadn't checked up on this thread for awhile. Thank you, Zarquon, for your encouragement. Thank the rest of your for your feedback, be it criticism or otherwise.

I am bumping this thread. I have been attempting to improve my RP on Antia, especially. Kelia is a WIP, but it seems to be going fairly well. My other characters usually aren't as fun, and really don't need feedback anyway.

To be more specific this time, I would like feedback on how I perform as an RPer.

Thanks, and I love you all!

[c0rzilla]

I admit, I was very wary of Antia and Kelia at first. I really do not intend for this to be or sound homophobic or what have you, but lesbian characters are prime fodder for fan service ERP.

However!

You have played Antia very realistically.

I was also wary of her being a shadow priest.

But, again, you have put my doubts to rest through RP.

Kelia is another combination I was worried about. Draenei DKs are very rare, and I have only seen one other before reset. There's been an odd increase in draenei DKs that somehow fulfil every man's lesbian dreams.

However!

Yet, again, do you put my fears to rest. Kelia is deep, has deep reasons for her behavior, has an actual history.

Keep up the good work.

Just don't bring Jynxi back.

[CharizardDylan]

A tad bit of necromancy going on.

To be on topic: The only character I have seen around is Antia and she seems like a rather fun character. OOCly Gecko is awesome.