Feedback plixplz (Too early?)

[hiddengecko]

Since I am currently in class, and it is rather boring due to the relatively simple course material, I thought I would post this awesome, awesome post and request feedback on my characters. I have admittedly only been here since early December, and don't have nearly the experience and number of alts as do most of you, but I think it would be wise to request RP feedback before I make any more grievous mistakes.

Antia: I'm pretty sure she's my most famous: she's my main. I guess I did make another "atypical race member #46," but...oh well. Have I done alright with this? I've refined her character a bit since the early days, particularly since I've rolled alts for most of the goofier, possibly character-breaking shenanigans.

She's somewhat disillusioned, blunt (if usually polite) and I think generally quite intelligent and practical. She appears to lack racism, but it's not really because she's forgiven the Orcs and Blood Elves as peoples, and is more because she wants to avoid making enemies without a good reason for it (and because in her eyes the individual is the only thing that matters anymore.) So yeah.

Jynxi: Originally a joke character I made for a bit of troll humor (Lawlz draenei bisexual hippy shaman and she joined a crew of privateers lawlawl) she ended up kind of growing on me. Her ditzy joy and shakey grasp of Common (and initial lack of understanding of most Azerothian cultures) hid some intelligence and a lot of angst. It was fun having her as the moral compass for a crew of Chaotic Neutral privateers, but after the Bloodstone became inactive I had her kidnapped by an orc and put into gladiatorial matches.

This has changed her in quite a few ways, mostly making her sadder, generally calmer, and a bit less mentally lazy. It's also worsened her fear and hatred of orcs, and nearly being eaten by a troll has changed her views on trolls (Well, troll men, anyway, she's met one very nice if strange troll woman since) to "Very strange people" to "Strange and crazy cannibalistic people."

Eria: I haven't RPed her as much as I've liked. Eria is Chaotic Neutral. She does not give a crap about much of anything, and essentially lives for lulz. She's also fairly racist in a casual fashion--she doesn't really hate Night Elves, but she does think it's funny to see one taken down a few notches or get the crap beaten out of him/her. She'd still drink with one, but she'd probably try to pull some mean-spirited pranks or exploit them in some way because she would find it funny.

Kelia: I've been RPing her less and less, sadly. She's difficult to RP, because she's usually just a big, quiet, depressed bodyguard. ICly nobody seems to really care about her that much, and she is for the most part to depressed to care about anyone else.

Tod: I've really not RPed this guy at all, except once through emotes on another character. It was kinda lulzy, I guess, but hey--if you were there, give feedback on him or something.

[Jurkey]

I've enjoyed both my long OOC discussions with you and our RP ICly. Kelia is a nice addition to Coriv's Blads, and her mysterious personality is something I like about her. I believe that you should add a bit more personal traits to Kelia though.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Now, bear with me, I'll try to be respectful.

Being blunt, I think you need to play Draenei better. There are multiple red flags to see that, in my opinion, you just like how they look and don't really care otherwise. Yes, you have shown that you know your Draenei lore, but this does not excuse that you have a Draenei Shadow Priest that has sold her body and a Draenei Shaman that is a privateer, both of which are lesbian to a degree.

Please, please please if you're going to try to play the best (Alignment-wise) race that there is on WoW, then play them correctly.

[hiddengecko]

I've enjoyed both my long OOC discussions with you and our RP ICly. Kelia is a nice addition to Coriv's Blads, and her mysterious personality is something I like about her. I believe that you should add a bit more personal traits to Kelia though.

Thanks. Kelia's tough to RP, mostly because she just stands around quietly and acts depressed generally. Her personality is a bit suppressed with all the self-hate, and I have trouble really bringing it out without her being coerced. I agree that I need to work on her personality traits; but I've been mostly on my other characters.

Now, bear with me, I'll try to be respectful.

Being blunt, I think you need to play Draenei better. There are multiple red flags to see that, in my opinion, you just like how they look and don't really care otherwise. Yes, you have shown that you know your Draenei lore, but this does not excuse that you have a Draenei Shadow Priest that has sold her body and a Draenei Shaman that is a privateer, both of which are lesbian to a degree.

Please, please please if you're going to try to play the best (Alignment-wise) race that there is on WoW, then play them correctly.

I thank you for your input, and even though I'm going to deconstruct it I will take this into consideration seriously. You make valid points, particularly on the draenei race being a largely cosmetic choice. I've played draenei since BC came out, and admittedly that is what started it.

I do, however, also enjoy the unique lore behind them. Nigh-angelic space-goats has a certain originality that other races lack, and that appeals to me.

Regarding Jynxi--as I said, she was a joke character that I simply ended up keeping. Her choice in joining the privateers was not ICly (nor, admittedly, OOCly) well thought-out, and was based on her desire to travel, and during her short stay with them she was something of a curiosity which in itself made interesting RP. She is not currently with the Bloodstone, anyway. Her bisexuality I never saw as a particularly big issue, given that there is no stance taken on this in lore, nor anything to imply that it is or is not accepted: the only implied instance of bi/homosexuality in lore is a night elf woman being mildly irritated by another woman's flirting.

Regarding Antia--I have gone over the shadow priest debate before, so many times. I can understand skepticism on the topic, but I believe that there was a passably good reason given for it. It's not supposed to be a good decision, and it's not supposed to be normal, accepted, or permissible. I see no reason why disillusionment with a devotion to the light is implausible after the destruction of Draenor, especially for one who was not present for the evacuation of Argus.

Her "selling her body" was intended to be a grievous downfall in character and standards, and a sign of her desperation. Loststranger and I had originally planned to do this differently, but he had ICly put up an argument and set terms in such a way that I felt Antia would be convinced. Given this time back, I think I would have executed this differently, but both in and out of character there is bad judgment to be had--it doesn't mean we get to do it over, and honestly IC Antia would feel the same way at this point.

As for her lesbianism--I do not see why it matters. Cliche? Perhaps, although there seem to be fewer seriously-played lesbians on this server than people claim. The Draenei don't appear to be the kind of people who would condemn such preferences, except perhaps in the name of of increasing reproduction rates. Is it author appeal? Yeah, pretty much. Is it out of line with her character? No, I don't believe so. Do I play it up for fanservice? Generally not, unless I'm jumping in circles on GMI and /hugging everything in sight.

I do, however, agree that I need to improve in this area. My previous RP experience was extremely casual and did not prepare me for the level of seriousness I am expected to uphold on this server. I will continue to try to improve, but I am not going to drop a character that has proven fun for me to RP, and as far as I know has interfered with nobody else's.

[FlyingSquirrel]

So you love their lore. Then why are you completely disregarding it? For fel's sake, it's like a Night Elven lumberjack with both of your characters. As has been said, lore is basically a guideline for your character. I'm not saying that every Draenei has to spend 9 hours a day praying, but you can't go around and have them do whatever the fel they want. Ultimately you, OOCly, are in charge of what your characters do. Your characters are Playdough and you are shaping them to be too similar in some aspects.

The aspects I am referring to are the lesbianism and the not-very-good ness.

Onto Jynxi; Why was it not OOCly thought out? As I said earlier, you are in charge of your characters. Whenever you make a decision for them, you have to take things into consideration. Their lore, what they were probably trained to do as a child, what they were trained to do in their profession. Albeit, there are limits to what you are supposed to control OOCly, and how many things you are supposed to do. And I'm not saying that bisexuality isn't allowed. I'm merely saying that for the same person to have two lesbians (once again, to a degree) is too much OOC control, and that perhaps you should try playing a more average Draenei, and not the Night Elf lumberjack. And, with the Night Elves, flammos200 said the Lesbianism was slightly implied with the thousands of years of sexual tension. If you want to play a bisexual, then perhaps an ex-Sentinel is the choice for you.

Onto Antia; Yes, I know this. I've been in most of those debates. But you have to, OOCly, take into consideration that they were basically brainwashed into Light-worship as a Child. Or, that's how I've always seen Draenei childhood. In Exodar, there's a place where there's a tour going on, showing different types of Demons. They show these Demons, and then I believe they would ask "Do you want to be this, child?" They would (Once again, speculation) create propaganda about the demons, anything that was needed to have another child to fight with. Remember, there aren't many Draenei children, and thus they are incredibly pampered with the Light, blessed and all as a Child, and so, as said earlier, the Draenei children were, in my opinion, basically brainwashed into believing the Light.

Then, you have to take into consideration that at every damn planet, there were the Demons. It wouldn't be uncommon for a Draenei child to see other Draenei have their head chopped off as they were being shoved into an escape capsule. These could be friends, these could be whatever you have, but remember. The Demons hassled them and annoyed them for thousands of years. That's how determined they are to kill the Draenei, but then you just have her go and hang out with Warlocks, who have been their worst enemies for thousands of years. Also, as said in Hawk's guide, the Light is not a theory to the Draenei. They, literally, have been touched by it. Gift of the Naaru is one example, the fact that there's a Naaru in the center of Exodar is another.

And if it's a grievous downfall, then you have to take into consideration what I said above. The Draenei have been having them Demons on their back for thousands of years. It's like some bee nested in your ear and kept buzzing. Would you go and have sex with the bee farmer who's bee it is? No, you'd probably want to kill him. I know I would.

The lesbianism thing, as I said above, is just too much OOC interference in the way of something that is popular with a few. If you say that it's something that's author appeal, then it's too much OOC-ness. As I said above, there are lines to what you can do without getting everybody hating you. If you want to play a homosexual so horribly, then make a Male homosexual. I have one, and I also have two Asexual, as well as a bisexual. The point that you have -two- Homo/bisexuals, both of the same race and gender, is a bit off-setting.

As I said in my previous post, bear with me. This whole thing was typed out with me trying to keep respect in mind.

[Aphetoros]

I think it would almost be a better argument if Antia was older, Argus age or more, and had fallen from the Light because after so long it still hadn't saved them? I don't know much about Draenei though.

[Nexi]

So we should put limits on how many characters any user can have of a given race/sexual preference combination?

As for Antia, she's not a warlock, she's a shadow priestess, and Shadow isn't evil. While Shadow isn't a common practice among the Draenei, it's not impossible for a handful to break away from their "brainwashing" and go a different path. This has been discussed to great length before, so why this is still an issue is beyond me. She explained the reasoning for her going that road admirably and I don't see why anyone has a problem with Antia being what she is. Especially when the profile was approved without opposition from the GM staff.

[FlyingSquirrel]

That's not what I meant, Nexi. What I meant is that with the same person to have two is a bit odd, especially with a race such as Draenei, which at no means hides the fact that they cannot have children much, and need more children.

And Nexi, she's worked with Warlocks plenty before. And for a Light-worshipping race such as the Draenei, who literally grew up around the Light, Shadow is the worst thing possible. It's right up next to Fel for the Draenei, and any Draenei in their right mind would hate fel. And I don't have a problem with her being a Shadow Priestess, persay, but I have a problem with the fact that she has two characters that are too out of the normal caste for me to usually like. I only want some presence of lore-following on the server, and I'm trying to prove to Gecko her character flaws.

Why she would even open a feedback thread and then fight the feedback is above me, though.

[DiesUltime]

So we should put limits on how many characters any user can have of a given race/sexual preference combination?

I have to agree with Nexi on this point. At some time I think it needs to be said that it can get a little too... how do I say this? It can get too lore-hardy to involve a personal standpoint such as sexuality into a game like this. Blizzard doesn't say that "HAY, LEZBIANZ AREN'T ALLOWED IN THE DRAENEI RACE", mostly because it's not up to them to determine 'right', and 'wrong', which can be hard to do with a race that's all about being holy. So saying a Draenei should be straight is like saying that about any living human now, which is just silly considering all of the personal preferances that there are in the world, even one like ours that currently seems to frown upon the gay communities.


That aside, sure, Draenei are indeed a majority holy race, and some of the things stated here are an extreme.

Edit: TL;DR, if the person wants to be a lesbian character, let 'em do it. The real question is why does it bother you so much?

[Ben]

...Danalthar, calm down.

You always have the 'middle child' syndrome, or something similar. They're not meant to touch the cookie jar, but they do, and then open it, and then take a biscuit. The Draenei are open to temptation just as much as a WoW human. Upon eating the cookie, finding it good, and having a few more, they can see that it may do no harm that they can see.

To make this OOC, it's her choice. Not yours. Maybe she feels she's bringing another dimension to the Draenei tradition. There's always Black Sheep [and swans].

To actually feedback: I believe I've RPed with Kelia. And I enjoyed it. Nothing much more than that.

Shall we take anything else to whisper/private message so as not to derail this thread?

[c0rzilla]

So we should put limits on how many characters any user can have of a given race/sexual preference combination?

I have to agree with Nexi on this point. At some time I think it needs to be said that it can get a little too... how do I say this? It can get too lore-hardy to involve a personal standpoint such as sexuality into a game like this. Blizzard doesn't say that "HAY, LEZBIANZ AREN'T ALLOWED IN THE DRAENEI RACE", mostly because it's not up to them to determine 'right', and 'wrong', which can be hard to do with a race that's all about being holy. So saying a Draenei should be straight is like saying that about any living human now, which is just silly considering all of the personal preferances that there are in the world, even one like ours that currently seems to frown upon the gay communities.


That aside, sure, Draenei are indeed a majority holy race, and some of the things stated here are an extreme.

Edit: TL;DR, if the person wants to be a lesbian character, let 'em do it. The real question is why does it bother you so much?

Blizzard didn't do it for PR reasons. That's why they didn't expound upon the potential sexuality of -any- of the races. And it bothers Danalthar because Danalthar likes RP to go along with lore. I really hope we're not getting into an "hurdur you dun like lesbienz becuz ur actually such and such" argument.

[Nexi]

I still don't agree with the "needing more children" argument with respect to homosexuality when you consider that if someone is homosexual, that's not likely to change for any reason.

As for Antia working with warlocks:

- You say no Draenei in their right mind would work alongside Warlocks, but we know Antia is a Shadow Priestess and Shadow has a way of messing with the user's mind. Have you considered that maybe she's delved so deeply into Shadow that she truly isn't in her right mind any longer? If you've read her profile you'll see that Antia started delving into Shadow to better help her people fight back whatever threats exist, seeing that they've wielded the Light for so long and still they run. It was a self-sacrifice, one that will no doubt eventually lead to her own damnation if it hasn't already.

- Let's suppose her mind is perfectly intact instead. The Argent Crusade has warlocks among their ranks. They also have Draenei and every other race and class. They're already a lot of Draenei and Paladins and Holy Priests that knowingly work alongside Fel users because despite their social stigma they're useful against a greater enemy. Yes, this goes against everything we've ever known about Light users and I was ridiculously surprised to discover this myself, but there you are. Now, I'll admit that I've never once seen Antia RP, but perhaps Antia has a similar viewpoint as the Argents. If she's committing horrible crimes alongside these warlocks, that's something else entirely but hopefully something that can be explained. Considering she's clever enough to have adequately explained why a Draenei would take interest in Shadow, I wouldn't put it passed her to be able to explain this too.

[DiesUltime]

That's not what I'm trying to do, but sexuality shouldn't be so white and black. How does having a Lesbian character "not fit in with lore"? Where in anyplace, or anywhere does it say it doesn't make sense? Saying Blizzard doesn't include it for one reason or another doesn't support that it's there at all.

If it's some unspoken rule... that's sort of silly.

[FlyingSquirrel]

@Ben/c0rzilla - No, I'm perfectly fine with Lesbians. And about the middle child thing, I've always observed it as a mix of pessimism and trust issues. I, of course, have problems trusting people, and I always think "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely." What I mean by that is that if people are given power, then they'll want more, and etc.

@Nexi - Through various OOC things, I've learned that Antia is just recently delving into Shadow. I may be wrong, but that is what I'm basing it off of.

- The Argent Crusade is fighting against the Lich King. Antia is fighting against nothing. Once again, this is based purely off what I've seen from OOC. But, from what I've seen, she doesn't need them for fighting something, she doesn't need them for anything. Also, the Argent Crusade has no half-Felsworn in their ranks. Just Warlocks, but not people that are partially Demon, such as Tavren and Mathias.

@DiesUltime - I guess it's a personal issue. I'm just saying that, in my opinion, having two Bisexuals is a bit too OOC influenced.

[DiesUltime]

So what if it is? I have to say, I couldn't play a straight female character if I tried. It's their character, and their choice.

If there wasn't OOC influence... this would be an actual living person without a creator, which isn't the case. People are trying to be so cookie-cutter with Draenei.