Split: Katana Debate

[heydudes]

Ok lets clarify that a Katana that you see most of today is a crappy replica, because they are, real Katana took a long process of forging. So to say the Katana in WoW made by normal weapon smiths is not nearly as well built as a Katana made by Panderan or others that trained under them, swordsmiths.

Plus the katana can cut through blocks of concrete, saying it cannot go through an inch of steel platemail is an absurd way of saying, the weapon is then completely useless for what it was forged for, being the best sword. Plus the blade was forged so well, dont put normal human body and build, suction and the like to the field, because that is obsolete.

Katana were not made for quick slashes, that is the horridly built ones, real Katana were meant for one good strike kills, anyone can pick up and swing away but true masters only need 1 strike.
In a fight between two Samurai it was usually the one that swung first that lost, since the samurai were trained in counter attacks and the offensive defense.

In the end the real Katana that was built by the standards of Damascus forging, which started back in 700 A.D., is the sharpest and most deadly blade ever conceived by any single smith's hands.
And my source is my Kenpo Training Grakor, I know how the Katana is wielded and how it must preform to truly be deadly in combat, my book I received from my master at the dojo has the information on the forging and combat techniques as well, but I rather memorize these things that way I may excel in my classes.

[Grakor456]

I believe that this is pretty much not going to go anywhere, because of some refusal to do one's own research. However, I highly suggest you do so. Look up Damascus Steel on Google, and you'll find the *real* history of that technique. Also, if your dojo master really did teach you that, I suggest you approach him and request that he stop teaching you things that are incorrect.

Breaking concrete and breaking platemail are two different things, apples and oranges. Things like hardness and how much a material can bend will affect things like this. The katana was not designed to face armor of the sort found in Europe, because that sort of armor was not found in great quantities in the far east.

If you wish to continue this, please only do so AFTER you have something hard to back up your claims. I am seeing at least three websites and three Wikipedia articles that all say that you are wrong.

[heydudes]

Ok you are right this will not go anywhere.
1. Damascus is a forging technique, it can be applied to any set of metal.
2. There are hardly any real Katana in construction today.
3. If people do not understand the training of the Katana
4. If people cannot come to terms with the fact that the Katana has been exaggerated to the point people think you swing it a lot to deal damage, no it is a one swing weapon.
5. If people really want to understand the weapon they need to train with a real one, it is a large weapon and takes time to learn how to balance your self with and be able to aim a single stroke that can be truly fatal.
6. Why has it been under done when even the mid way and not even master built Katana could cut barrels off of guns in World War 2, and were used wide spread by the Japanese army.
7. If you and I cannot come to the compromise of the weapon being great but only if forged by a master and being used by a master, which the katana is only really usable by one that spends his life devoted to it, or is unforgeable by one that cannot dedicate himself to the weapon's creation.

So in the end it comes down to this, I have done the research and checked all the things you pointed out, and all of what I have been trained and researched myself, in the end, this is all 2 halves of the same whole, you have shown that the weapon is imperfect when it is not used and created correctly, but I have pointed out it can be perfect for conventional combat in melee if it was forged and used correctly.
Now can we move on, this simple means the weapon and the creation are too varied to be truly explained as a katana and would be better off as a mixture of scimitar and bastard sword.

[Qaza]

Meh, there are much more interesting weapons than katanas. I really don't find one-hit kill attacks to be all that interesting in any kind of writing. As Siv pointed out, there are more unconventional weapons out there which require creativity when writing about.

[Harmonic]

We need more garrote wire.

[Bolshe]

Dude, Kenpo is all about empty-hand and grapples. Don't give us this song and dance about how you are studying from books in a dojo and brew tea from fish-heads and break concrete blocks with your back.

A katana could never cut through a block of concrete, not that sharp.

In any case, this whole argument has lost its point, oh, a page ago?

[Grakor456]

I have split this topic away from my guide, as I do not want any misinformation presented to confuse anyone reading it. I'd rather my guide be entirely factual in nature.

I, however, am not going to respond to heydudes at this point. Anyone can research the topic at hand and find out the real truth, and as pointed out it's getting nowhere.

[heydudes]

Actually Bolshe, Kempo is empty hand and grapples, kenpo is Japanese samurai melee combat defensive-offensive combat, kempo is Chinese boxing.
I am giving you no song and dance, I am a student of the martial art and understand conventional combat, this is for sure, the argument at hand, since there are even variants upwards of 30 of kenpo and kempo, so it is hard to differentiate the two different forms of combat.
But that is not the point, the point is, the Katana is strictly and exotic weapon, to use it correctly you need proper training, not just a set of training, if I can use swords, I can use longswords, shortswords, cutlasses, and katana, but the katana is a bit harder for me to truly use unless I have proper training.

Then again some other things need revisions in many eyes, Damascus is a metal not the weapon, so stray off from that now I shall, it has no corolation to the blade its self. The Blade is a weapon that requires special training, like some others. but this raises a question, which weapons other than a katana are exotic in all intensive purposes?

The Katana is a sharp blade, to sharp for my like anyway, I prefer staffs and sabers, much more fun.

The overall truth of the matter is, the blade is hard to really understand since it has been tinkered with by so many outside sources throughout time and is warped in the world as a too simple of a weapon or to dangerous, therefore, we may find over thousands of so called answers but in the end, it comes down too, how do you really role play a katana user, that is the strange part, does he study and strike once or slash fast and finish them with speed?

[Grakor456]

Actually Bolshe, Kempo is empty hand and grapples, kenpo is Japanese samurai melee combat defensive-offensive combat, kempo is Chinese boxing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenpo

http://www.kenponet.com/

http://www.kenpokarate.com/

You, sir, are so full of crap that it's coming out of your ears.

Edit: Oh, here's an even better one:

http://www.alljujitsu.com/kempo-kenpo.html

[Temple]

I hate to be a dick about this and all, but it's gonna kill me if I don't say it. I came across an authentic katana from WWII (previous owner being a japanese officer) and to be honest, it really wasn't that sharp, at all. It's kind of a low blow, but I -highly- doubt it could cut through a gun barrel.

[Bolshe]

I hate to be a dick about this and all, but it's gonna kill me if I don't say it. I came across an authentic katana from WWII (previous owner being a japanese officer) and to be honest, it really wasn't that sharp, at all. It's kind of a low blow, but I -highly- doubt it could cut through a gun barrel.

You'd break it if you tried to cut too many gunbarrels.

And, I was going to put up a few links but Grakor beat me to that loltrain.

[Temple]

Say, if I ever get a hold of a platinum token, can I request a 120 pound light saber that can cut through my enemy, his plate armor, gunbarrel, and his epic kobold mount in one slow swing if he's silly enough not to move?

[Kaghuros]

Eh... I've been following this as it went and it seems to me like even with the threads split it's not going anywhere nice. Seems a bit like the thread has gone too far already, ya' know? It's getting a bit off-topic and into the silly/not good area. Not my decision, but I'd say lock it if you think it's getting out of hand.

[Lordbluerune]

It's been tested to see if a katana could cut a gun barrel. The test showed every time that the katana broke, barely slicing the barrel. The testers even superheated the barrel so it was softer, and put the Katana on a device that swung it way faster and stronger then a person possibly could, the result was the katana breaking and the barrel -Bending- not being sliced in two.

[Bolshe]

It's been tested to see if a katana could cut a gun barrel. The test showed every time that the katana broke, barely slicing the barrel. The testers even superheated the barrel so it was softer, and put the Katana on a device that swung it way faster and stronger then a person possibly could, the result was the katana breaking and the barrel -Bending- not being sliced in two.

Yes! I told you, katanas break fairly easily. They're flimsy- even the real ones.