Living DKs: Special profile?

[Kretol]

So there has been some debate over the topic of living death knights. Heh. 'Some.' There are those that believe they should be extremely rare (and even the existence of them are an affront, to a degree), and those who believe that it shouldn't really matter too much. And then of course there are those with other opinions on the matter.

I brought up the idea on Vent that it may be a good idea to consider living death knights as a special profile so as to limit them and ensure that they don't become the norm.

What do you folks think?

[Avitz]

Whilst I'm tempted to slam down on the Heck yes choice. I find if something like this got passed, alot of other 'exception' characters would end up in alot of bother also.

For the record, the only death knight I have is a walking corpse. Whilst it would make logical and lore sense to simply say "Minority of the big time, get yourself a special profile", I keep coming back to a certain thought...a opinion of coth.

Its a players choice if a Death Knight is a living one or not, depending on the rp they prefer. Would it be fair to players to deny them being able to play a certain type of Death Knight because ten people have already submitted living death knight profiles

"In coth, the rule is the exception..."

My main...concern is more what would happen next. If one expection in lore is hammered down, what happens to all the other exceptions? Are some exceptions more expectiony than others?

Anyway...staying on the fence for now.

[Psychyn]

I personally do not think this restriction will better the RP in anyway, I've seen too many complaints stating that living DK's should be more x, more Y, that their becoming the norm. What happened to people allowing others to RP whatever they want? This is, by no means a jab at anyone particular, but I just feel like restricting this to make solely the living deathknights a special profile, simply hampers people's RP.

And, I personally believe all the complaints that were made, have never been given constructively to the players of deathknights to allow them to improve.

So! Therefore I personally voted no, I'm not in favour of this RP restriction. Apologizes if it isn't worded as best as possible, but I did not really know how to better put it.

Edit; And making these into special profiles.. Will make them all the more special, and target of complaints.

[DaveM]

I voted agree, because I do think a living DK is a big RP challenge that shouldn't be 'rolled' by any grunt that does the starter quest.

I sort of disagree with the wording of the option though - I don't think it should be pursued actively that these living DKs are a specific number or proportion, just that the ones that exist are profiled and profiled and understood well.

It's fair to ask that all such exceptional characters are well understood, but unfair to restrict people's attempts at RPing this category to design a certain environment of characters. So special profiles for better RP, not for 'making less of them'.

Edit: But yea, the folks that QQ about living DK RP should offer a lot more friendly and constructive feedback.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, Avitz, I don't think there's going to be a set number of how many there can be. I think it's going to be on how the GM's think the person would work with it, like the Custom Model Character Submission.

And Psychyn, if we're not cautious about what we allow people to play, then why are Nobles/Ghouls special profiles?. Special things, such a Living Death Knights, need Special profiles. /nod

Anyways, if you couldn't guess, I put yes.

EDIT: Bad wording, fixed now.

[muhaha8]

All I can say is something I believe I said before:

To make a living Death Knight takes one of two ways: willing, or unconcious. Inconcious usually implies beaten down in combat, and likely dying. Whilst the Death Knight creation ritual does not kill, it causes an unimaginable amount of pain. I question the validity of saying "My Death Knight was a badass. He pushed through it." Sorry, but no. Your Death Knight cannot possibly be enough of a badass to deal with pain that would cause a grown man to tear his eyes out. Any wounded soldier would either end up horribly insane, if not dead. I reiterate, most would not survive. That is why I voted "Heck yes!". As is quite obvious, we can't make willing living Death Knights.

[flammos200]

I am of the opinion that it should not, under any circumstances, be considered that Death Knights should be Special Profiles.

An Undead Death Knight is, let's face it, an OP character from the start. If people wish to underpower their character by making it living, then it's their choice.

Lore-wise, I am in favor of Living Death Knights because they are exceedingly possible. There is, in fact, no evidence of Undead Death Knights being the norm. It's merely an assumption... If the Death Knight fell in combat, they'd get raised by the Val'kyr as an undead one, sure, and it's quite likely since the Death Knights of Acherus were pumped out by the dozen, bodies to be tossed at the Scarlets.

Through that carelessness comes the fact that they're not awarded Vampyric Runeblades, and the like, as well as the fact that they didn't really care who was put through the Ritual to turn one into a Death Knight.

In the end, however, I see very little difference between Living and Undead Death Knights, in terms of 'final stats'. They're still considered a core/base class, and gain nothing more than anyone else. In an effort to preserve equality and free choice, I militate for Player Choice as far as Death Knights are concerned.

Really, if Undying Death Knights are considered Special Profiles, I am of the opinion that all Non-Forsaken Shadow Priests should be Special Profiles, as well as Forsaken Light-wielders.

Similarly, all Night Elves that're good with Technology, Night Elven men that are Rogues, Warriors, Priests or Hunters, Night Elven females that are Druids...

...And everyone that has a cross-race/faction relationship be watched.

Doesn't it sound a little ridiculous? Policing the system like that? If everyone that deviated a little from the norm was considered a Special Profile, the Character Profiles forum would be empty.

I agree that -ALL- characters should be supervised or their concepts checked in order to make certain that they fit in Lore, and on the server, and don't disturb immersion - something which Roleplayers crave, but it can be done without the method of Special Profiling everyone that straddles a line.

More than once, I've said that the Team is a little too lenient with people's Character Concepts. That doesn't mean that everyone with an inkling of difference(Such as not dying) should be shoved off, quartered and partitioned. It simply means that people should keep an eye out, and... well, with the risk of sounding like an old lady with loads of cats, swinging her cane at the kids on her lawn, I think people should be more Lore-inclined, and do things where Lore permits or suggests it, rather than creating things that aren't there.

What I mean is, Living Death Knights are supported by Lore -and- by In-game abilities ([spell]Lichborne[/spell] anyone?), and as long as that support exists, I stand by them being normal Profiles, like every other character.

So, that's my two silvers. If I've offended anyone, I apologize from the bottom of my heart. This was not aimed at any particular individual, nor was it meant to cause offense in the first place.

[Delta]

Yes, because of the reasons that so many people choose to roll living Death Knights, none of which need mentioning for various reasons including repetition, and no for the reasons Flammos and everyone else mentioned.

I did vote yes, because for a little extra effort, the same result can be achieved and the only ones extraordinarily hampered are the ones who don't need to be playing living Death Knights.

E: Actually, I changed my vote. Sitting on the fence, gents; it's where it's at.

[Adam255]

I think it should be something that's done ICly.
A dead death knight resurrected by the powers of the light (Or any other power), and coming back to being a living thing.

Seems to make a lot more sense to me, seeing as finding a priest who'll help a death knight is already rare enough. But finding one who's willing to bring him to life is even more uncommon.

[muhaha8]

Oncw you're dead, though, you're dead -forever.- It's not just some curable disease.

[Roxas65]

What Delta said. And I also have to say that I'm tired of the Lichborne argument. People need to realize that -some- skills are just placed in the game for balancing And that's it. People read too much into the skills that you have ingame and seem to forget that Blizzard first and foremost intended WoW as a balanced and playable game and -not- a lore handbook. At least that's my opinion and why I voted yes for this.

[Aphetoros]

I think it should be something that's done ICly.
A dead death knight resurrected by the powers of the light (Or any other power), and coming back to being a living thing.

Seems to make a lot more sense to me, seeing as finding a priest who'll help a death knight is already rare enough. But finding one who's willing to bring him to life is even more uncommon.

No. This is because, for example, a Forsaken resurrected by the Light is still a forsaken, the only cure for undeath is a Divine Miracle or a Wish spell.

[muhaha8]

I think it should be something that's done ICly.
A dead death knight resurrected by the powers of the light (Or any other power), and coming back to being a living thing.

Seems to make a lot more sense to me, seeing as finding a priest who'll help a death knight is already rare enough. But finding one who's willing to bring him to life is even more uncommon.

No. This is because, for example, a Forsaken resurrected by the Light is still a forsaken, the only cure for undeath is a Divine Miracle or a Wish spell.

Keep in mind that Wish or Divine Miracle are high-level spells, too. It isn't something that your average Priest could do. See: High Divinist.

[Wuvvums]

I guess what bothers me is not really the character itself but what it's made for. I don't want to blanket living DKs into one category, but it seems most of them are made for pairings. I don't see why you can't use another class for pairings.

If there were living DKs because they were following Arthas for awhile, then I think it'd make sense for them. These could be the people who are opportunists and bailed when Arthas died, and considering their motives and that they wield death magic, these living death knights would be considerably evil. I don't really believe that most living DKs were made on accident, but were those that gave themselves to Arthas. That's my idea of it, anyways.

[muhaha8]

Something just came to mind, also:

The Scourge isn't careless. They're dead; they have -all- the time in the world to be as meticulous as possible. Mistakes are likely to -not- happen, even if they were pumping out Death Knights in batches of dozens, hundreds, even. Living Death Knights aren't accidents. See: Second Gen. Death Knights.