Re-Canonizing the RPG Books

[flammos200]

So do shaman, but it's because they turn part incorporeal and ride a cloud, or something ridiculous like that.

Just figured I'd throw that out there.

And they have Astral Recall in-game to support teleportation-like travelling. 'Sides, Divine is nothing like Arcane.

[Binkleheimer]

So do shaman, but it's because they turn part incorporeal and ride a cloud, or something ridiculous like that.

Just figured I'd throw that out there.

Do want.

[Aphetoros]

I do believe magi fly in-game too.

...Kael'thas has spells that command gravity and if I remember correctly he flies around the room the entire fight. Though I suppose the argument will either be stricken down by game mechanics/lore character.

[Hexproof]

All right. Seeing as, from what I've seen, this is all boiling down to a question of whether or not mages flying is OP, let me post exactly what the rulebook says as far as flight goes.

Fly
Transmutation
Level: Mge 3
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Creature touched
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load). It can ascend at half speed and descend at double speed, and its maneuverability is good. Using a fly spell requires only as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load, plus any armor it wears.

Should the spell duration expire while the subject is still aloft, the magic fails slowly. The subject floats downward 60 feet per round for 1d6 rounds. If it reaches the ground in that amount of time, it lands safely. If not, it falls the rest of the distance, taking 1d6 points of damage per 10 feet of fall. Since dispelling a spell effectively ends it, the subject also descends in this way if the fly spell is dispelled, but not if an anti-magic field negates it.

Focus: A wing feather from any bird.

Duration: 1 min./level

The RPG Mage class only goes up to level 20, for all intents and purposes. What this means is that even the most powerful Mage can only sustain flight for twenty minutes maximum, and likely fewer if their concentration and mana are split between flying, spellcasting and doing Light knows what else.

The subject can fly at a speed of 60 feet (or 40 feet if it wears medium or heavy armor, or if it carries a medium or heavy load).

Now, here's where it gets tricky, as depending on how long you consider an RPG-style "round" to be, this could mean anywhere from 60 feet per second, to 60 feet per minute. However, using the only other unit of measurement provided, let us assume that it means 60 feet per minute. That's about a foot per second, but if you're moving along a third axis, that's still a fairly large deal.

However, with the "level" system still being used to gauge what the "maximum" would be (We're talking Archmage-level characters on par with Lore figures.) that evens out to less than a quarter of a mile of flight distance maximum.

Now if you look at that in terms of gameplay, it actually matches at least the general speed a Levitated Priest can achieve.

At the absolute most, assuming a "round" is treated as a second, then that means that their total maximum, a Mage on par with a Lore character would be able to achieve a maximum distance of around 72,000 feet, which is exactly 13.6363636 miles.

Even with that in mind, the mana cost of such a spell (which the RPG seems to just ignore in this respect) would likely make it a last resort at best, leaving the caster drained and utterly helpless once they hit the ground, if they were to use it on themself. If they were to use it on others, then they'd be just as drained, only they wouldn't even benefit from their own flight.


In the end, I'd really argue that this isn't that OP if done by someone responsible, and it entirely makes sense that, while an option mages might be able to access, none of them would ever use it as a primary mode of transportation just on principle of mana cost alone.

Really, if people accessing the RPG books for spells and the like were to look at the entire spell and not just "hey that looks cool" or "hey that looks ridiculous", I think it'd be seen that a fairly large chunk of it does make sense without breaking any established lore.

My proposal on this entire thing is to re-canonize the RPG books, and whenever there's a direct conflict, defer to gameplay, Blizzard or whoever else happens to be saying whatever they're saying.

[Beltharean]

in the Warcraft RPG I believe one round is 6 seconds or so. I may be off, as something in the back of my head is nagging at me and telling me it's 9 seconds. If it is 9 seconds, round that up to ten. Six feet per second. I don't know about you guys, but I think I can run about three times that much in a second, just off the top of my head. Probably more.

[Hexproof]

in the Warcraft RPG I believe one round is 6 seconds or so. I may be off, as something in the back of my head is nagging at me and telling me it's 9 seconds. If it is 9 seconds, round that up to ten. Six feet per second. I don't know about you guys, but I think I can run about three times that much in a second, just off the top of my head. Probably more.

Exactly my point. Six feet per second is roughly the rate of someone walking with long, swift strides.

[Grakor456]

An RPG round is 6 seconds. However, one can move twice in a round, meaning that one could "fly" about 120 feet in six seconds, which is just plain silly. (For reference, land speed is usually half this rate, so Fly lets a character move twice as fast.)

Also, 20 minutes for the fly spell doesn't take into account repeated castings.

[Beltharean]

You can only move 60 feet in six seconds? That's rather silly... Ten feet a second is kind of ridiculous, don't you think? I know for a fact I can run twice that fast not even trying all that hard. Then again, I guess that just goes to show how flawed the RPG books can be.

[Grakor456]

I believe there are rules for sprinting, or moving faster if one concentrates on it. The 60' note is for normal movement within combat, which would be more restrained. The main point is that Fly essentially doubles a character's movement speed.

[Hexproof]

An RPG round is 6 seconds. However, one can move twice in a round, meaning that one could "fly" about 120 feet in six seconds, which is just plain silly. (For reference, land speed is usually half this rate, so Fly lets a character move twice as fast.)

Also, 20 minutes for the fly spell doesn't take into account repeated castings.

It also doesn't take into account mana, which the RPG system entirely ignores.

Also, it's more than possible for someone to sprint 120 feet in about five seconds, give or take, as the average human walking speed is around five feet per second. 120 feet divided by 6 seconds is ten feet per second, which is still less than the average running speed of a human being, which is around twenty-two feet per second.

Edit:

I believe there are rules for sprinting, or moving faster if one concentrates on it. The 60' note is for normal movement within combat, which would be more restrained. The main point is that Fly essentially doubles a character's movement speed.

But that makes sense, considering you're more than doubling the range of motion to work with. To go ten feet up and ten feet across isn't just moving ten feet, but that's calculating the ten feet in one direction, then ten feet up, then ten feet in any other direction, and the mage is constrained by the rules of range just like his foes are, which means every move he makes has him having to keep within range of his own spells, his opponent's spells and so on.

[Binkleheimer]

As a side note, both the D20 and game mechanics agree that it takes a party of 4-6 high levels to take down a dragon and a small army (10-25) for the head honchos.
Well, the head honchos might be epic level in D20 (over 20) which is why it'd take so many adventurers.

[Aphetoros]

Well to be fair we could just sort of... change things. Just because the d20 says you can fly 120 feet in six seconds doesn't mean that we couldn't change it to be more realistic. I mean, if we want to take into account more abilities of classes and such, (which I would enjoy) we can always change the overpowered spells and skills to be more reasonable. And in the case of ridiculous spells that we never want to see used (Ala finger of death, death touch, that one spell that makes you fall asleep and then wake up as a zombie though I forget the name of it) we can simply remove them from lore or say they're too powerful for any of our characters to cast?

[Rigley]

Well to be fair we could just sort of... change things. Just because the d20 says you can fly 120 feet in six seconds doesn't mean that we couldn't change it to be more realistic. I mean, if we want to take into account more abilities of classes and such, (which I would enjoy) we can always change the overpowered spells and skills to be more reasonable. And in the case of ridiculous spells that we never want to see used (Ala finger of death, death touch, that one spell that makes you fall asleep and then wake up as a zombie though I forget the name of it) we can simply remove them from lore or say they're too powerful for any of our characters to cast?

I swear Aph, I'm gonna whack you with a bone spear.

And I simply cannot understand why people haven't understood that we're not doing away with the d20 entirely- we're just now being selective about our usage.

[Wuvvums]

It should be noted that the movement for run and fly are usually for combat only. Usually the standard for movement when I played D&D was 30 feet, and one square on the map was 5 feet.

Without going into a tangent, I believe the mechanic was made more for table tops and grids. It's not something you take literally, but more of a guide to move around your figurine on the table. That does not mean I endorse flight, but more suggest that the movement and speed is more of a mechanic than something based on reality.

[Aphetoros]

I swear Aph, I'm gonna whack you with a bone spear.

And I simply cannot understand why people haven't understood that we're not doing away with the d20 entirely- we're just now being selective about our usage.

B-but... I'm agreeing with you!