The Highborne Empire

[FlyingSquirrel]

So, I was thinking today. I think it's pretty well known that the Highborne Empire, ruled under Queen Azshara, was the most powerful mortal empire ever seen on Azeroth. I was also, on another server, in the zone of Crystalsong Forest, and I noticed the number of similarities between Crystalsong and Azshara.

Spoiler:

1) They're both in a seemingly eternal state of Autumn.
2) They both have extensive Kaldorei ruins all over the place.
3) They both have Kaldorei or Queldorei ghosts in the area.

So, this all got me thinking. How large, exactly, was the Quel'dorei empire in it's height? I went searching ala Google and managed to find this picture.

Spoiler:

This points to it making sense that the Quel'dorei were in control of Crystalsong. Then, I looked up the lore behind Crystalsong Forest. The giant, crystal trees have always interested me, but I've never cared enough to look. This interested me very much, however it also raised a question for me.

When the Dragons fought, what time was it? It's very odd, because the Shandaral Spirits do have a Druid Spirit in the area, along with both Satyrs and Dryads, so that means that it has to be post Sundering. There is also a Great Tree nearby, which houses a portal to the Emerald Dream. However, there is no more evidence pointing to the Kaldorei ever going to Northrend post Sundering. However, there's more evidence pointing to it being post Sundering, as the Black and Blue Dragons fought here, and the Black Dragons attacked in the War of the Ancients.

So, what do you all think about this? Are the Shandaral just another lore-fail by Blizzard, or is there another explanation?

[Aphetoros]

I don't think either of those maps are accurate... but it's possible there were druids up there? With the Great Tree and it's emerald dreamness.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Ay, but they're the closest I can find to what I've imagined. The proposal that Zin-Azshari went from the Maelstrom to the coast of Azshara has always been ridiculous, in my eyes.

[Aphetoros]

I think they're wrong because it's not like the continents were shoved apart, there used to be land and it was just completely shattered.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Well, no, there was land. However, it's another theory which I believe in is that it's like it is in the real world. There are plates in the earth, and those plates were put into activity by the power of the Well of Eternity imploding, and they were what moved the continents away. Sure, some land was destroyed, but it's not like there was thousands of miles of earth that just poofed.

[CharAznable]

I hate to sound cynical, but its probably a Lore fail on Blizzard's part. THAT BEING SAID.

I actually really enjoy the theory your posit here.

It could be that they were there, Sundering happened, then they had a little society for at least some time? With the harsh conditions of Northrend, and the way the Nerubians were, it wouldn't be too hard of a stretch to say that they went through Crystalsong at some point and had a conflict with the remaining Highborne there post Sundering. As for the Druid thing... well it could be that there was one there, or that, driven by curiosity as many are, the spirit decided to go North to see what became of the Elves in Crystalsong, and then bing, bang, boom.

---

Well, no, there was land. However, it's another theory which I believe in is that it's like it is in the real world. There are plates in the earth, and those plates were put into activity by the power of the Well of Eternity imploding, and they were what moved the continents away. Sure, some land was destroyed, but it's not like there was thousands of miles of earth that just poofed.

A lot of it did sink though, look at all the underwater ruins that are mentioned in Frozen Throne/WoW

[Aphetoros]

I do believe the well of eternity quite literally sucked pieces of the planet underneath the waves.

[FlyingSquirrel]

Yea, Char, some of it did sink still.

I do believe the well of eternity quite literally sucked pieces of the planet underneath the waves.

Do you have any lore? Because just repeating the same thing won't sway my opinion.

[Kaghuros]

Aphetoros is right. Here's a quote from WoWwiki citing the WC3 manual.

The unstable vortex within the Well's depths exploded and ignited a catastrophic chain of events that would sunder the world forever. The massive explosion rocked the temple to its foundations and sent massive quakes ripping through the tortured earth, as the surging Well of Eternity buckled in upon itself and collapsed.

The implosion of the Well created a vortex that began to consume the central landmass of Kalimdor, and the seas rushed in to fill the gaping wound left in the earth. The continent had been split in three.

I looked up the Night Elf History section in my own game manual for WC3, and it has to say that:

As the aftershocks from the Well's implosion rattled the bones of the world, the seas rushed into fill the gaping wound left in the earth. Nearly eighty percent of Kalimdor's landmass had been blasted apart, leaving only a handful of separate continents surrounding the new, raging sea.

[Dragonbeard]

-cough- Vashj'ir -cough-

[FlyingSquirrel]

I looked up the Night Elf History section in my own game manual for WC3, and it has to say that:

As the aftershocks from the Well's implosion rattled the bones of the world, the seas rushed into fill the gaping wound left in the earth. Nearly eighty percent of Kalimdor's landmass had been blasted apart, leaving only a handful of separate continents surrounding the new, raging sea.

Yea, blasted apart.

And Vashj'ir just sunk.

[Aphetoros]

"The implosion of the Well created a vortex that began to consume the central landmass of Kalimdor, and the seas rushed in to fill the gaping wound left in the earth. The continent had been split in three"

I think you're taking blasted apart too literally. It didn't actually shove the continents apart-- it'd have to explode for that, not implode.

[FlyingSquirrel]

"The implosion of the Well created a vortex that began to consume the central landmass of Kalimdor, and the seas rushed in to fill the gaping wound left in the earth. The continent had been split in three"

I think you're taking blasted apart too literally. It didn't actually shove the continents apart-- it'd have to explode for that, not implode.

But if it sucked everything in, then how did the people at the center get away?

Regardless, that's not the focus of this post.

[Beltharean]

This goes right along with the discussion I had with Grakor yesterday about Night Elves being on the Eastern Kingdoms. All signs point to showing they were actually there, from the lack of shock at Night Elves and High Elves meeting in Warcraft Three to the two Great Trees on the continent. There's no reason Night Elves and Highborne, having been a part of such a massive empire, wouldn't have holdings in those areas. It's possible they turned into Highborne however, during the exile of the Highborne, and eventually High Elves. For the topic at hand however, these Night Elves and Highborne could have very well become the first of the San'layn. We know Arthas raised Blood Elves during the Third War, but who's to say he hadn't already done it in the past?

[FlyingSquirrel]

This goes right along with the discussion I had with Grakor yesterday about Night Elves being on the Eastern Kingdoms. All signs point to showing they were actually there, from the lack of shock at Night Elves and High Elves meeting in Warcraft Three to the two Great Trees on the continent. There's no reason Night Elves and Highborne, having been a part of such a massive empire, wouldn't have holdings in those areas. It's possible they turned into Highborne however, during the exile of the Highborne, and eventually High Elves. For the topic at hand however, these Night Elves and Highborne could have very well become the first of the San'layn. We know Arthas raised Blood Elves during the Third War, but who's to say he hadn't already done it in the past?

They actually talk about that on the Crystalsong page.

When the Lich King arrived in Northrend, he immediately sensed the power of the forest. He dispatched several of his mightiest servants to secure the region for his use. The golems destroyed them, and the green dragons eliminated the servants who approached the Great Tree. The Lich King tried again, this time sending a small army into Crystalsong, and this time the forest itself took action. As the monstrosities approached, the forest's song grew louder, shaking every spire, and the creatures burst like shattered glass. The Lich King never made a third attempt, perhaps accepting that some force protected the forest and would not let him pass.[3] This may be why the Scourge constructed a huge dam separating the forest from Icecrown.

He couldn't get them, I guess. Plus, you can't find any living Night Elves there, so all evidence points to them dieing when everything was crystallized, or just dieing out somehow.