Mists of Pandaria Talent (Controversial!)

[CappnRob]

I don't see what the problem is really. Warlocks can already summon Doomguards, which are at least an equal to Shivara, and greater than Terrorguards.

Besides, most of us here don't even RP to the full ability of our CURRENT powers at level 80 (how many paladerns do you see using Avenging Wrath, Divine Protection, or what have you IC? not many), so durrhurr this just increases the list of stuff most of us would ignore anyway.

Other than that... all I can say is ITS ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME WE GOT AVATAR STATE IN WOW JEEEEZ. ULTIMATE DWARF MOUNTAIN KING RP GO.

[ImagenAshyun]

I don't see what the problem is really. Warlocks can already summon Doomguards, which are at least an equal to Shivara, and greater than Terrorguards.

Besides, most of us here don't even RP to the full ability of our CURRENT powers at level 80 (how many paladerns do you see using Avenging Wrath, Divine Protection, or what have you IC? not many), so durrhurr this just increases the list of stuff most of us would ignore anyway.

Other than that... all I can say is ITS ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME WE GOT AVATAR STATE IN WOW JEEEEZ. ULTIMATE DWARF MOUNTAIN KING RP GO.

I believe we've already established that commanding a Doomguard is a rarity, especially as seen in the Torr story. The time it takes to even have one activated is very, very brief, and you need to enslave one first while using a spell (though from what I see, that requirement has been removed in later installments). Very rarely have I seen any Warlock player command a doomguard besides myself through Mahen'Tosh, and he lost control of him.

By extension, the same applies to MoP demons... but we'll see. Level 90 IS a much higher level than 80 and far higher than 60 (when in-game the warlock is able to enslave and summon doomguards). Perhaps if we are provided support on warlock abilities to control them, they can apply IC in RP. Still, it's potential abuse for players who'll take on the character just so they can be drunk with power and try to force this on everyone else. I still advocate a special profile, and one where the player's trust and RP-ability is examined.

[CappnRob]

I don't see what the problem is really. Warlocks can already summon Doomguards, which are at least an equal to Shivara, and greater than Terrorguards.

Besides, most of us here don't even RP to the full ability of our CURRENT powers at level 80 (how many paladerns do you see using Avenging Wrath, Divine Protection, or what have you IC? not many), so durrhurr this just increases the list of stuff most of us would ignore anyway.

Other than that... all I can say is ITS ABOUT FREAKIN' TIME WE GOT AVATAR STATE IN WOW JEEEEZ. ULTIMATE DWARF MOUNTAIN KING RP GO.

I believe we've already established that commanding a Doomguard is a rarity, especially as seen in the Torr story. The time it takes to even have one activated is very, very brief, and you need to enslave one first while using a spell (though from what I see, that requirement has been removed in later installments). Very rarely have I seen any Warlock player command a doomguard besides myself through Mahen'Tosh, and he lost control of him.

By extension, the same applies to MoP demons... but we'll see. Level 90 IS a much higher level than 80 and far higher than 60 (when in-game the warlock is able to enslave and summon doomguards). Perhaps if we are provided support on warlock abilities to control them, they can apply IC in RP. Still, it's potential abuse for players who'll take on the character just so they can be drunk with power and try to force this on everyone else. I still advocate a special profile, and one where the player's trust and RP-ability is examined.

Kind of my point, there. We can already summon Doomguards, and that hasn't been abused. What makes crap like terrofiends and shivarra any different? Especially because in Cata, Doomguard summon becomes a regular ass spell and not a hilariously obscure quest chain.

And most of the talents there aren't even that bad, or is stuff that already is in game but noone RPs their power level to be anyway. Like I said, when was the last paladin you saw using Avenging Wrath? :V

[Revan]

Honestly, I would just abandon the game altogether... It's becoming too much of a 'Men (Women) like gods' situation where you can just summon a handful of demons to go kill your target while you sit there and throw cards into a hat. Though, I doubt Kretol would even try to patch up to MoP (possibly bump up to cata, eh?) Honestly, if Blizz is trying to make the game more "Balanced" They must be getting ideas from a kid that whines about everything that does not involve getting more power.
Other then that, the only thing I can see that will pose a threat to RPing is the spells and talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-o...lculator#V!

Ontopic: Don't worry about it, let Kret handle the problems while we just sit back, kick our feet up on the table and say, "Good fight."

[CappnRob]

Honestly, I would just abandon the game altogether... It's becoming too much of a 'Men (Women) like gods' situation where you can just summon a handful of demons to go kill your target while you sit there and throw cards into a hat. Though, I doubt Kretol would even try to patch up to MoP (possibly bump up to cata, eh?) Honestly, if Blizz is trying to make the game more "Balanced" They must be getting ideas from a kid that whines about everything that does not involve getting more power.
Other then that, the only thing I can see that will pose a threat to RPing is the spells and talents: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/mists-o...lculator#V!

Ontopic: Don't worry about it, let Kret handle the problems while we just sit back, kick our feet up on the table and say, "Good fight."

WoW has been like this since Vanilla, bro. Most of the stuff in MoP is not even that ridiculous. The stuff that is is for classes who were already ridiculous (warlocks and DKs).

[Revan]

Druids have 4 talents... *Grabs some evil villain's hand sanitizer and rubs his hand maniacally* Turns out that guardian gives you the form of a super cool kung-fu, spell-casting bear.

[Ebenezer]

You mean like a Fulborg, Saetlk?

-
Anyways, as the spells all seem very overpowered, I hope they overpower every class so that they are balanced. In Cataclysm, I was bothered by the fact that Blizzard wanted to make every class more similar to eachother. (This was also in WotLK though. One example I can give is the Warrior ability Execute, which have been there since Vanilla. In TBC, Paladins also got this ability, and in WotLK(?), Hunters got the Kill Shot ability.) Also, in Cataclysm, Warriors was granted through Arms talents, the ability Throwdown, which simply was an awesome stun for arms warriors. They now have Charge, Intercept (Stance-dance!), Disarm (def-stance dance!), War Stomp (if tauren), interrupts, Frightening Shout, -and- a sweet stun to top it all, meaning once you give that bull a nice axe, he'll evolve into a rhino.

I didn't really play Cataclysm so much, so I don't know much about any other classes than those I have played. If you look at WoW, you don't really need a certain class to finish your raid. You can do it with any combination of damage-dealing classes, any healer classes and a decent tank. If you look at other games, my example here being TF2 (which isn't a MMORPG, but still it's got classes) every different class have different uses and all are useful to different things. Snipers kill other snipers and anything else that moves. Heavies are big bad tanks with 28k dps (was very high when I was cataclysming) and medic friends. Engineers builds sentry guns to take out anything that moves, scouts goes for the flag captures, and spies infiltrates the enemy and kills them one by one, unseen.

I remember when I watched my brother play vanilla WoW a few years back, that his entire raid was raging over that their rogue did not sap the correct target. About sapping, nowadays, Shamans, mages, druids, priests (if target is undead), Warlocks (if target is elemental or demon), shaman again (if target is elemental), druid again (if beast/dragonkin), and Hunters can all "sap" targets without causing aggro. Ebenezer does not approve of this.

If CotH was updated to Cataclysm, I would be like this guy. (spoiled but harmless.)

Spoiler:

If CotH was updated to MoP, I would have this face. (spoiled and perhaps not the most harmless face you would meet today.)

Spoiler:

My option may change.
Darn, this was a large post. So long that I have to end it like this.

- Regards, Ebenoobzer.

[Dae]

[...]Blizzard wanted to make every class more similar to eachother. (This was also in WotLK though. One example I can give is the Warrior ability Execute, which have been there since Vanilla. In TBC, Paladins also got this ability, and in WotLK(?), Hunters got the Kill Shot ability.)

And while there's the obvious pet battle system thing going on, here's where I can't help but feel like WoW's been going all pokemon on us for a long time. Move variations, anyone? Not to mention, the sort of niches certain types had in earlier versions (special glass cannon psychics, speedy birds, fast-growing but weak bugs, etc) have all but vanished.

But this is just what happens in a longstanding series that uses pretty much the same game mechanics for years and years- all mechanical possibilities are explored, at the cost of lore.

I honestly feel like MoP is Blizzard embracing fully the novelty and gameplay of World of Warcraft. In terms of Lore, this is depressing but not the end, while as a game, I'll have to admit that this sounds like tons of fun and I'd be keen on picking up retail again for it. (Speaking of which, I'm at a point where I'd be willing to just get a new account for that nifty EXP bonus from being recruited at some point in the future, hint hint)

Yes, these talents are new and overblown and the likes, but since we're all in agreement that they are a bit rediculous ICly, rather than preventing abuse with special characters, simply making it common knowledge that abusing these abilities is simply not tolerated. This isn't exactly like being bad at Belfing, either- these are skills, whose (potential ab)use could be easily quantified. I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Uthaniel]

Doesn't it just boils down to everything that it has been before?
If it has a good, solid reason behind it, doesn't go against any of the rules and doesn't breach lore, it's fine.

Frankly put, people could be shooting laser beams that turn others to dust automatically from their armpits for all I care, as long as they don't try to force me to accept that outcome on my character. As long as everyone's will is respected when it comes down to the actual roleplaying, I really see no problems whatsoever.

[CappnRob]

Ebenezzer, one of the FLAWS of Vanilla WoW was that raids needed an exact amount of specific classes to even pull off properly, which pretty much screwed you over if you couldn't get a what you needed. Now I will say raids today are a tad bit too easy, they should not become hard because you don't have X amount of Y class, because that takes out the teamwork of raiding. By giving every class similar but different roles, there's more flexibility and allows for everyone to help watch each other's back while still performing their Tank/DPS/Healer duties.

Also, Execute, Hammer of Wrath and Kill Shot are only the same in that they're only for targets at 20% HP. Execute does extra damage for every rage you have, and can be buffed to proc at any time. Hammer of Wrath has no damage buffs, but is ranged and does holy damage, the only magic school that can't be resisted. Kill Shot does 200% weapon damage plus a preset value of damage, and has the highest attack range in the game (maxing out at 51 yards). They are not the same ability.

[flammos200]

I don't mind it, honestly. Even in the RPG books, if you were a high enough level character, or were taught by some higher force(Like an Eredar Warlock or something) you had access to such grandiose spells. Hell, you could literally -cause a Rain of Chaos- as a 'lock, y'know like the rain of Infernals outta' the sky by the dozens?

And anyhow, I approve of the power-up for everyone. Because if everyone is "OP", then no one is "OP".

I don't see how this is more OP than what our characters've done before. Killing Dragon Aspects, gods, beating down Titan Watchers, Elemental Lords, going toe-to-toe with the lords of the Burning Legion, etc. So what if you've gotten a leg-up on your power level in the meantime? It's still not over 9000, to the point that you're a game-breaker for everyone else, -because everyone else has access to the same-.

It reminds me a lot of catapult-control debates. If everyone has catapults then everyone's similarly protected. Whereas if you outlaw them, only outlaws have catapults. (Substitute catapults for guns, very powerful abilities, or whatever if you like.)

Point I'm trying to make is: You can use high-powered skills and abilities freely, if you use them responsibly.

Knowing the way the rule system works 'round here, you -wouldn't- be able to use them once in a blue moon to do something epic. For the sake of regulation, it would be either 'No, players can't do that because it's somehow OP' or 'Yes, players can do that because they have it in-game'. And seeing the amount of abilities taken out from the game in Cataclysm(And supposedly in MoP too), I welcome new spells 'n abilities.

I don't really care how powerful said spells are. I just want more of them - so long as they fit the Lore.

[Bovel]

Why are "you" so eager to jump the gun when it comes to these things? They are talents from a game that is not yet released and will most likely be changed more than once. Aren't the foundation WotLK has given you enough?!

Dragging content that is not within our reach and can basically be considered speculation is just a factor to bring on unecessary drama...

[Ebenezer]

Also, Execute, Hammer of Wrath and Kill Shot are only the same in that they're only for targets at 20% HP. Execute does extra damage for every rage you have, and can be buffed to proc at any time. Hammer of Wrath has no damage buffs, but is ranged and does holy damage, the only magic school that can't be resisted. Kill Shot does 200% weapon damage plus a preset value of damage, and has the highest attack range in the game (maxing out at 51 yards). They are not the same ability.

I call them the "same" because they are very similar in my optinion, all are used instantly when the boss' health is under 20%.

The ability for Execute to proc through Sudden Death was edited to proc Colossus Smash instead of Execute. I liked that spell though. One of my favourite stuff with my Orc warrior. Even made a macro for him to yell "Hrumm SMASH!" each time he did it. I think I was kicked from around 20 dungeons because of that, because it did proc nearly all the time.

Also... My options are defeated. It dropped no loot.

[Beltharean]

Because it's new lore that has application in an old game world. If it was suddenly retconned in MoP that Gnomeregan had ever been taken over, and instead, it blew up in a freak gasoline fight accident, wouldn't you like to know that for your character? That would be new lore that you didn't know about, that you would -need- to apply to -your- RP -immediately-. For the rogue spells, there's a talent that makes it so you can coat you're weapons with a poison that heals you. If you're playing an assassin on CotH at the moment, wouldn't it be wonderful to know that there's a poison out there that can heal you while killing your enemies?

Or perhaps, you're wondering if Shadowfiends are the -only- thing that live on the Shadow Plane that Priests get their power from. Well, there's a bunch of tentacles right there that say otherwise.

On the off chance you're ever fighting something on your mage, you might be interested to know that it really is possible to polymorph more than one target at a time.

Now, I most definitely don't agree with most of the things on that talent tree, but that isn't to say that it can't reveal a bit of lore in a world where, without the RPG books to guide us (I still use them quite a bit, but I know others don't), we end up being rather limited in some areas.

EDIT:

Spelling error. ^.^

[Bovel]

Since when did talents become a good inclination of lore?

Polymorph more than one target, of course that is possible and we shouldn't need game mechanics to define the world in which we roleplay. Yes, I agree that it can offer inspiration, just as the RPG books, old and new can.

But is it really the same as -lore-? Should we really jump the gun and implement things such as talent into our RP we don't even know if they are gonna be kept. Mainly concerned with the warlocks upgraded pets, what would it mean to CotH right now? A source of drama in my oppinion.