COTHonomics.

[Harmonic]

The only problem with housing is the practicality of it, along with spacing. Not to mention what Vrahn was talking about. I've always liked the idea of player housing, but, honestly I think it'd be more practical if said boundries were set to guilds and not players. However, the hard part about that, is again, if the guild wants a guild hall, and they are trying to maintain it through paying rent and buying objects for it...

Well, then where's the time to RP the guild's actual purpose? Honestly, if the Crew had to pay for the bar we use, just simply so noone else would use it, I think it'd be less that optimal unless we did devise some way to get people active in fighting there, as well as create a demand for actual Stormwind RP. Sadly, I don't think it'd be possible to balance keeping up with a "Guild" area, and effectively RP the bar how we want to.

There's be too many side jobs Rensin would have to take to supplement, unless some "expected" earnings were made from the assumed "NPC" and "RP" patronage. I say people visit my bar, but in reality we've only had a couple of people do so.


Which makes me sad now. D'aww.

[Rigley]

I'm not going to touch on the entirety of this because it is quite late, but concerning the idea of more housing...

There's a ton of housing. Really, I've stapled down a house in Elwynn, Westfall and etc. wherever I found that it would look good to have one. It isn't quite as simple as "I want a home in Stormwind" or "I want a home by Goldshire" because you have to factor in if the terrain will allow that and allow that in a way which is visually acceptable.

Even then, I am sad to say that that is also an extremely limited prospect. Of all of the races the only ones we really have spawnable architecture for would be humans and undead-- perhaps orcs if you wish to stretch the idea of housing a good deal, and tauren get a tiny hut. We can't add stuff to Eversong or else it surely would have been done already-- we just don't have the objects to spawn. Believe me, if we could I would have added several homes all across the board to the different zones. But even then these homes are really only as good as the ones you see now in Elwynn, Duskwood and so on-- in short, I've not tried to skimp out on the decorating of these things in any way. These are my efforts to give a few player housing options, at least where they can be applicable.

I say that to say this; I'm not certain how many more houses you can add, at least in normal areas. I also do not believe it possible to make a specialized door for each house, nor am I too certain that Kretol would even consent (or perhaps just get around to) such a task-- granted that is coming from my limited knowledge of how the core works, but I doubt it from past experience.

In general though I'm personally not a fan of ownership on an RP server. Because we really should be sharing, especially when you consider that there -aren't- an unlimited supply of homes, bars, and etc to run. If a new player joins and wishes to use one of these, it seems wrong to me that we would have to deny him just because all of the buildings have been gobbled up. Part of this also stems from the fact that, yes, these buildings might be claimed, but how often will they be used? I don't mean that in a way to say that claiming them has no justification, but it seems to me that whenever these areas would not be in use it would be more enriching to the RP of the server in general to allow others to use the buildings instead for their own RP.

As for custom items I'm afraid I voice my same concern as to how practical this would be, as only Kretol has the power to really implement such things, especially ones involving effects or the like.

I by no means mean to be the big naysayer here, but I'm just not confident as to how much could be done with the suggestion of housing, in particular.


EDIT: I don't mean to seem like I'm groveling on behalf of my own work, but why are we discussing more housing options when the currently available ones are seldom ever used, by the by? I understand that they might not look -exactly- as one would want them to, but again-- that's a bit of an unreasonable demand. We only have so much space, and so many people. The best we can do is to create homes and then let you pick from the ones which suit you best.

[Aadora]

Just not to clutter this thread more I made my own thread for those who haven't noticed...

http://www.conquestofthehorde.com/Thread...xplanation

As the disclaimer says it's just some ideas and I in no way expect it to become reality.

It's just something that maybe we can look at, think up some ideas and work from there in -how- we could make an economy.




And on the subject of doors...

There are already plenty of doors ingame that require a specific key. Could just take one of them and slap them into the door frame if such a thing would be used.

[CappnRob]

Rigley, I know you put hard work into the houses you spawned and I for one appreciate the extra stuff we did get. A damn shame we can't spawn anything for elves or trolls or dwarfs or what have you, but nothing you can do about that. Here's hoping maybe Cata will change that? I dunno.

[Rigley]

Pretty much, though with elves I'm not really holding out much hope (what with them getting next to nothing in it),

Also to note, most doors requiring a key would likely not fit at all upon the buildings we do have, I'm afraid. We have some difficulty making the ones we made for the buildings fit on sometimes, even.

[Harmonic]

Don't know if the core would actually add buildings for cata though, but I suppose anything is possible.

Even on the last core, only some of the houses were spawnable. I think that's because a lot of buildings in areas like Silvermoon are part of the actual ground/area detail, to save time while making the place. It also would minimize clipping and the like.

I'm no expert at that stuff though, heh. I'm probably very wrong.

[Aadora]

I personally would like my own manor on a hill.

Doesn't mean it should be easy to get.

Difficulty for obtaining housing should be equivalent to the difficulty of OOCly creating it no?

Edit: Still only posting on a [If this ever did happen] basis.

[Rigley]

Nar, spot on actually. Buildings in Eversong tend to be part of the world; people have spawned them before, but that's by using custom patches. And we're not exactly wishing to make the move to that stuff, as much as I would enjoy an increased arsenal of buildings, heh.

A few stuff was added in for us to spawn though, so we can always hope. The northrend homes you can find in Elwynn are an example of that.

EDIT:

Difficulty for obtaining housing should be equivalent to the difficulty of OOCly creating it no?

Er... how so?

I'm not certain I understand. Usually hills just won't work for houses, for instance. They weren't meant to be placed there, they were meant to be placed on flat, intended spaces for the object. There's only so much we can do, y'know?

[Aadora]

That's what I mean...

It's hard to find places to spawn the houses.

Therefor it should be just as hard for players to be able to get their own house spawned if this ever happened.

[Rigley]

I'd still submit the idea that it is quite easy to find places to spawn houses, though-- and those places have, for the most part, been used for such. I again question why we would be thinking about ways to add housing in when so many exist which go unused. It seems rather wasteful, and doesn't really give a builder the most confidence that this would be put to use either.

[Vrahn]

You can actually do a very simple script that when a player clicks on a door they get teleported to one house, and when another player clicks on the door they get teleported to a different house, or if you rather, when one player clicks on the door they go to phase 2, next to phase 4, next to 8, etc. etc.

But all that being said to be honest I'm not really overly in favour of doing player housing, I was actually quite impressed with what Rigley had done (Granted I RP in Duskwood. :P) There are so many buildings placed down and lightly furnished it has plenty of unused space just waiting to be occupied. The argument for player housing should only be really done after that's all occupied.

Granted, I dearly wish someone would put some actual furniture in Raven Hill since it's now in use! (/bias drool)

[Aadora]

As I said in my other post.

It's not about whether it can be done.

It's just coming up with ideas for how to create an economy.

If it can't be done, it can't be done. We move on to idea #2!

[Rigley]

You can actually do a very simple script that when a player clicks on a door they get teleported to one house, and when another player clicks on the door they get teleported to a different house, or if you rather, when one player clicks on the door they go to phase 2, next to phase 4, next to 8, etc. etc.

But all that being said to be honest I'm not really overly in favour of doing player housing, I was actually quite impressed with what Rigley had done (Granted I RP in Duskwood. :P) There are so many buildings placed down and lightly furnished it has plenty of unused space just waiting to be occupied. The argument for player housing should only be really done after that's all occupied.

Granted, I dearly wish someone would put some actual furniture in Raven Hill since it's now in use! (/bias drool)

Try and snag me tomorrow once I'm back from college-- We'll see what can be done, yeah?

[DaveM]

This'll sound horrible, and would only work after a restart, but:

Prestige training could cost cash.

So could other perky things, like custom models.

Awesome GM (and not only) events or even storylines could have entry fees.

(Of course, houses and customs)

Other exceptional/impossible things today could be made available for huge amounts:

Faction neutrality, guild perks.

If we're hitting extra birds with one stone: perhaps Purples and blues should be taken off .addrp and have an IC currency cost. As well, ressurections should have an (increasing) high cost. IC cash should come to be the main reward of a profile, IMO.

And those just off the top of my head.



but silly Dave, a lot of those are basically OOC costs.


Mhm, and I think that's fine, I think that's a perfectly acceptable cost. Why:

1. OOC motivation is fine. A huge chunk of the motivation for IC actions is OOC anyway, not even CotH is truly a closed world-simulation. However, if I want to get my Demon Hunter, or have my custom-prestige zeppelin-CEO upgraded, it's fine that I should gear some of my (other) RP into money-making. So let's be honest here and not pretend that OOC motiation will make the credibility of the IC world explode. You'll translate your OOC motivation into another IC motivation of your character, if not the very same. I'd love the depth of a begger roaming the streets and petitioning nobles to ress their friend.

2. It only takes one to economy-tango. It's sufficient that let's say 5% are made avid over money by the above, and 10% merely interested. That 15% can generate products, reasons, services and a host of other missing roleplay to get the cash of the remaining 85%, creating a real (not economy, but) economical background.


Such a system allows for the adjustment of all sorts of things: ress, gearz, prestig's, spawnz, profiles, and anything else that gets out of hand. Woop-de-do, lots of X? Price of X doubled. Not enough of Y? Sale on Templars!

I'm sure it sounds harsh to hardcore CotH-is-just-a-writing-medium RPrs, but those with a social-gaming facet might be getting a small grin at the ideas. In closing, listed all this more for people to think about it rather that this necessarily being a great direction.

[Harmonic]

Dave, in the way of economics though, that's pretty unrealistic. That'd turn us all into OOC or IC grinders.



I think an economy, is a beautifully imperfect idea, however, because it's imperfect, it's near impossible to implement because then it's mostly theoretical, and while in -theory- it may look like a good idea to charge money for everything, realistically you're tasking people to spend time on earning money. Whether through IC work, OOC grinding, however it may be, that sort of thing doesn't create RP more than it does a looting system.

I think than rather trying to make a realistic, working economy we should work on something that -symbolizes- one... and the OOC money was a great way to convey it. The problem there isn't that there is no supply or demand... it's that people are choosing to say "Forget it" in regards to exchanging currency. And honestly, I can understand that. When I RP, the last thing I want to think about is bills, which is essentially what a good structured economy boils down to.



Honestly, Rensin would probably intentionally become a shiftless angry hobo if these things came to be. So complicated.

Edit: What I mean by realistic... is that we'd have to spend a lot of time on CoTh to get these things done. Something that a lot of use more casual CoTHies can't do. If I was charged for all that stuff, even in game gold or whatever, I wouldn't realistically have the time to grind it out and try to make an "IC" living. Along with that is the thought of RP versus actually playing WoW. Do we want to start gold farming and loot snatching? I remember my daily life on WoW back when I actually actively played was farming quests, obtaining loot, mining, crafting, the doing raids/dungeons all night.

That's some hefty work. But it "creates" the economy. And that's because the typical WoW player was willing to put in a good ammount of work to do so, almost daily. Like, 6-8 hours or more.