Rowgen Wants To Improve. . . Please?

[Rowgen]

When I posted one of these many months ago and received no replies, I thought feedback threads really were exaggerated. But honestly, lately I've been feeling a steadily growing need for one. A good friend brought to my attention that I'd changed, that I've become a bit too confident for my own good. Maybe even arrogant. And I admit, it hurt to hear that, but I'm grateful nonetheless. It's a chance to do better, to become a better person, to be a better friend. And as a friend, I ask you; Please, tell me what I am, because I've been told what I can be, and it really isn't what I want to be. I wanna be friendly, I wanna be kind, I wanna be helpful and I wanna be better, in general.

My arrogance isn't spawned by a good self-esteem. Quite on the contrary, it's spawned by a really bad one. And knowing that sitting around and doing nothing about my low self-esteem is counter-productive, I strive to become a better person, and when I get better, when I realize I've helped people and I am doing a good job... Then the evil circle kicks in, and I start growing prideful. I'm so glad and happy for being able to help people and do good, and I loose sight of my goal. I end up arrogant, thinking I'm finally a better person... When I really am not. And I grow blind, kinda. I start to focus too much on what I do good, and talk about it too much, and I forget to credit people for what they do good. I'm drunk on my own glory, and I forget to share the booze. I love being loved so much that I forget about the people I call my friends. Those who know me might say I'm being harsh to myself, but I'm just such a hopeless perfectionist. Arrogant as I am, I set high standards for myself - far higher than I set for others.

My own problems aside, I'm growning doubtful about my characters. All of them, but Malachai. I really don't know what to do with them. As of current, my notable characters are the following;

• Malachai.
  
• Mathabaeus Hode.
  
• Magoram Manflayer.
  
• Kag'rin Sunderskull.
  
• Danothil Seregon.
  
• Linevi Duskfeather.
  

Malachai and Magoram are alright; Those are characters I'm comfortable with, or have ideas for. The rest, I'm starting to worry about. I could compose a list of how I feel about most of my characters.

• Shallow.
  
• Dull.
  
• Repetitive.
  
• Redundant.
  
• Anti-social.
  
• Awkward.
  

These traits are common, at least one or more. Most of my characters feel so simple. They could be explained so extremely briefly. Linevi is a socially awkward Night Elf who doesn't feel at home with her kind, but goes along well with other races. Kag'rin is an old idealist who's trying to run a tight ship in a war full of dishonor and cowardice. Danothil is an idealistic war veteran and Noble who just simply needs to grow up and be a man - though it's not intentional that he's behaving so... Unfit for his age. Mathabaeus I don't even know where to start, possibly signaling there's more to the character, but he really has a hard time catching my interest due to getting so stuck. His situation's become so cliché I don't know how to get out of it. Depression, near-neuroticism and generally low self-esteem are the thinks that mark him as a character.

Overall, I have a hard time getting my characters to develop because they have so few friends. And I also find it hard to get them to get involved with other characters than their somewhat restricted social circles because they generally hang around in just one place, and rarely meet anyone else. And when they finally do, they are so awkward around them. Danothil and Kag'rin are confident, but they rarely make new friends, being a bit too prudish to share a tale over a drink or joke around with the grunts. Kag'rin is improving, but I don't see Danothil developing much any time soon, unless something really drastic changes.

This is overall a very chaotic post, but in the turmoil I'm currently in I really don't know how to improve it. Just felt I needed to get this off my chest.

[Stealthscout]

Well I only got to RP with you that much, you should come and RP with those characters with Celen I would be happy to help you!

[Rowgen]

Yes; Depressive thoughts aside, help with my characters is what I need the most.

[Zhaei]

Probably some bad language ahead, as a warning!

I won't comment on OOC stuff, for reasons that you know full well... but I'd like to talk about your characters.

The thing with us, is we often create characters for each other.

• Maeladir
  
• Jurok, to an extent
  
• Kianis
  
• Countless others. Remember that mafia-style pairing we had? Benny?
  

I could go on, there's no need. We work well together. Like I've said before; you're an awesome guy. There's no nee- I said I wouldn't comment on OOC stuff.

You have many, many character ideas on a regular basis. I've seen so many concepts of yours that you'd make and whisper me. "This'll be awesome. I'm so excited. Here's this concept." And truly, they were awesome ideas. Remember that Ebon Blade blacksmith you made? A Human, I forget his name. Yet, you'd log in twice or so OOCly. You'd not write a profile, and you wouldn't RP them, and they'd be deleted. You'd always have the backbone: Malachai, Mathabeus. Garm, for a long time. Kag, a bit later. Danothil, who you grew to love. But you wouldn't truly branch out.

When I saw Magoram, I loved the concept. 99/100 times, I do with your concepts. Yet, I had an inkling that I'd see him once or twice then he'd be gone. I appear to be wrong, but that's unimportant. Thing with Kag, and Dano. What's the same about them? You mentioned in my thread about "Rowgen 1, Rowgen 2, etc."

They're both ideal representatives of the expected racial standards. I don't want to use stereotype, or generic, because they're not. Don't think that, because it isn't true. The concepts are awesome. Traditionalist, stoic Orc. Honourable to the last hair on his head. Cool-headed, Shamanistic. Arrogant, proud Blood Elf noble. Blood Knight, looks up to his father. This, IMO, is amazing. I love when people adhere to racial norms. I try to do it with my own characters.

Notice how I haven't even mentioned roleplay yet? You know how much I love your theoretical concepts, your eager ideas, and, honestly, you do it better than most if not all.

The thing is, when you roleplay, too much of you comes out. It's not your characters that borrow from each other, it's that they all borrow from you. I'm sure I do it too, hell I'm sure everyone does it a bit. But it comes out to me. When I see Rekka, I see the struggling underdog desperately trying to prove herself as an Orc. I don't see JV (that nab.) When I see Telah, I see the tirelessly devoted Priest with ambitious goals. I don't see Bovel. When I see BLA BLA BLA. You get the idea.

But when I see Kag, I see Rowgen. What is Kag'rin? Who is Kag'rin? I don't know, really. Do you? I regret to say, he's started to shift to how I see Jurok - an IC representation of OOC things. Jurok has turned into a mini-event machine (though not so much as of late) and Kag seems to be a similar thing.

I remember my first proper Orc. Jurok, the novice Shaman. Ratchet inn! Do you remember? He talked to Kag, Rhozak and saw Akua dance on a table. And I remember Kag then.

I remember seeing him in the Orgrimmar ring. He got to know Ogarmarsh. He was still Kag'rin from Ratchet.

Lately? He's still Kag'rin from Ratchet. Sure, he's got more power. He's more responsible. He is probably a better fighter. But has he actually -changed-? I don't think so, but I don't know him.

I'm rambling heinously. Basically, I think you put too much thought into planning and not enough into execution. You place high value in your presentation of yourself OOCly, and that seems to come out when you roleplay. Not that your characters think this, but you use very similar mannerisms, speech techniques... hell, even emotion. I don't get Kag, I get you.

How I think you should fix this? Get into your character more. Learn more about your characters - to toot my own horn, I know a lot more about my characters than I put in the personality section. I know some other people that do as well. Bovel does. You tend to have preprogrammed responses.

"Speak your mind, Tideturner." :P

Just kidding. Whenever a character is surprised/shocked - /e blinks. /e gives %t a measured look. /e grins. You get the idea.

I'm not going to be like "herp derp look at what I do/this guy does. herp derp here's a cool website." You know how to fix this stuff.


And don't you dare think that you're a bad RPer, or even a good one. You're an awesome RPer. If it's big and red it's true. I love your RP concepts to death. You're tied second with Sol (nab number two). I love RPing with you - you're one of the top guns! The big cheeses! You're insanely eloquent (especially for second language) and have almost perfect grammar. You paint a damn good picture, and you're awesome at DMing. You're the perfect attendee of an event, because you know what to say OOCly and ICly.

I also love how well Jurok and Kagrin have intertwined. Jurok wasn't made for Kag - hell, you only invited him to Deadeyes because we're chum chums. We joke about it, but we've actually managed to (in WoW emotes :O) come up with silent communication without OOC input. That's awesome We actually don't have a lot of relationships between our characters. I've never RPed with Malachai or Mathabeus. Hell, Maleeka barely. That's cool, I'm happy about where we are as a duo.

I think that as a duo (And Ben to an extent) we do awesome things. Events are awesome! We do good together - you say I do more, but I think without you I'd have nothing, and without me you'd be slightly less well-off. You've done a bloody brilliant job of starting up the Deadeyes. I look back to how it started and how I was like "this is cool, but this won't happen" in my head. Well, sir, I verily bite my tongue! It's amazing! You do an awesome job of administration, even though you b***h about how bad you are you do a killer job. I adore the skype group banter. I love how we've got an awesome event chain running. I love how much of a laugh we can have and still get some epic RP around. That's due to you, dude. I don't say it often... but you're a legendary bastard.

If you want me to throw you some ideas on how to combat your problems in RP, hit me up on skype. I'd be happy to.

I could probably add some more points, and I will some other time if you like. Hope this didn't come off as rude!

P.S don't add full stops to the end of words when you wiki a profile! That's grammatically incorrect!
P.P.S when you write your ellipsis like you do, it would be like . . . this, not like. . . this. :3

[Aruk]

Vee's a wordy person and good with it. I'm not; I'll keep this short.

OOCly, I don't care. I talk to you over Skype, we get silly in group chat...I'm also aware we share a frightening love of pandas. That's it.

ICly? Only RPed with Kag'rin. Now him I like. He has a very distinct flavour to him...he's not too rigidly Orc, or a human wrapped up in muscle and green skin. He's a sort of fine balance, trying to weigh power he wants, power he wields, his own plots and plans with that of the Horde and ideals set by Thrall.

Always fun trying to set the seeds of evil into his skull with Gruum. *cough*Burning Blade*cough*
You're a good RPer. I like the feeling of distance, wariness and respect Gruum and Kag'rin have for each other. It's something I can feel when they meet ICly. Personally I wouldn't change a thing as far as that goes. But the truth is, I know little of you. I know little of Kag'rin as well. Maybe after some time, I'll come here and tear you piece by piece and leave the vultures to pick it up after.

That's how I see him. Oh and this?

Just kidding. Whenever a character is surprised/shocked - /e blinks. /e gives %t a measured look. /e grins. You get the idea.

I'm not going to be like "herp derp look at what I do/this guy does. herp derp here's a cool website." You know how to fix this stuff.

Sometimes, less is a lot more. But sometimes STAY IN THE WOW WINDOW AND STOP ALT-TABBING YOU #%%&$*****.

>8|

That is all.

[Zhaei]

STAY IN THE WOW WINDOW AND STOP ALT-TABBING YOU #%%&$*****.

Can't tell if aimed at me... or Rowgen.


Or both.


Love chu ♥♥♥

[Rowgen]

STAY IN THE WOW WINDOW AND STOP ALT-TABBING YOU #%%&$*****.

Can't tell if aimed at me... or Rowgen.


Or both.


Love chu ♥♥♥

Probably both; This is something I think I'll take to heart, though. I'll start doing other stuff between RPs, rather than in RPs, rather pausing than trying to sneak away unnoticed. I'm feeling a bit guilty as it might suggest I'm not enjoying the RP too much, and it's decreasing the quality of my RP, too.

[Kage]

I really only have one thing to say. Start rping Kagrin -outside- of DW events. Then I can give you some proper feedback.

[Bingles]

Start rping Kagrin -outside- of DW events.

That is all..

[Bovel]

*cracks his knuckles and turns up some tracks with Raubtier on full blast*

Spoiler:

I got one word for you, viking bro', and that is 'Focus'.

Vee said it already, you have great ideas and I can totally relate to the flow of the creation-juices. The difference between you and me in this regard is that you get further into the process of making a proper character out of the idea before you stop, because of a new idea or a realization that makes the idea less appealing or not even playable in your opinion.
I usually only end up with a scarce profile where I have written down key parts of the concept. It happens that I have rolled the character and collected some gear to it, but never reached RP or even thoughts about seeking roleplay for the character.

Sitting on needles now? Well, what is the solution or suggestion for you, kempetorsk?
FOCUS!
Your concepts are good but oft lead to your characters becoming narrow, too narrow and which constricts RP. Or they become too shallow, too simple and now I trail off on what Vee mentioned - their actions seem pre-programmed and just too easy, if that makes sense.

Try to combine as many of your ideas possible into one character, making it terribly flawed with some strengths. When you create a character, try to imagine all the RP that can be ahead of it.


Allow me to make an example out of Riael - before I even brought him into play I had planned that he'd:
get wards to train and temper, try and raise a jormungar from larvae, catch at least one beast during actual RP and then dominate it and have it stay around, have him fail doing the same thing, fight over and over with Jidaeo, meet fellow rangers and possible form a new cadre, improve how to his enchant-drain for it to be usable in combat, meet with a blue dragon, hate and act out this hatred towards humans *wink*, offer enchanting for gold to feed his addiction, quasi-willing pilgrimage to the Sunwell, date/sleep/flirt with a man, do the same to a woman of another race, rough loving with a tauren, return to Silvermoon and Eversong for the first time in a decade, solve the issues with his injuries after the Nexus War in unknown ways.

And I think that covers my ideas -before- I even set foot with Riael on the server. After some RP I also added his first journey across Kalimdor, gaining respect among the shu'halo and getting together with Tibalan, training under Krona and a bunch of nieces and nephews to watch over.


Too me, the fact that you have several characters from the same race involved in the same RP that are not NPC-alts make me consider that you have in one way "failed". You should be able to fuse the concepts of your forsaken characters and scarp the impossible and details you can live without and simply focus on one character in one RP.
They become stale you say? Then let the character have a pause, I personally cannot have more than one character properly active at one time. Or add something new to his or her environment, a disease or a change of heart.


Do I make sense? I hope so.
In short, remind yourself not to make characters to fit RP, but create RP that fits your characters. And stick to a character, tenacity and roleplayed experiences pay off time and time again in the end.
(Perhaps you should also consider -who- you RP with?)


EDIT - And if you need help, feedback and just ideas... bleep me on the Skype, viking!

[Rowgen]

... Appreciated, Bovel, it really is. I'm glad I've got some hard, cold facts to work with.