Discussion for Non-Gilnean Worgen PCs

[Zenethen]

So, felt it would be an interesting discussion for CotH to discuss the topic of allowing Non-Gilnean Worgen PCs come Cataclysm, as it was apparently a topic somewhat discussed a while ago.

Personally? I think non-Gilnean Worgen PCs could be good and bad. I guess I'll try and give a list of things that could make it good and bad, and hopefully I don't make many mistakes in the process.

Good things;

- Allows for possible character development of a character that is turned into a Worgen in the time between WotLK and Cata (This is only if the GMs first give the okay on switching from human-to-worgen in Cata or what have you)

- Allows more variety in where your character can be from - while there aren't that many places they could be from, the places they -could- be from could possibly give more unique storylines than the generic Gilnean storyline.

- For those of you who have a problem with the whole british-styled accent thing and steam-punk homeland (not me), you can totally say your Worgen doesn't have the whole gist from Gilneas.


Bad or potentially bad things;

- Server-wide pandemic of misunderstanding players running around scratching everyone and saying 'Oh you have to be a Worgen now'

- Possible that some newer players (not a bad thing) may misunderstand the policy of non-Gilnean worgen and possibly make a Worgen of like... Really strange origins. (The whole wrong-place-wrong-time-transformation thingy)

- Could disrupt the balance of the worgen population, considering that there's a possibility that more people will -not- want to play traditional Gilnean worgen because they figure that since they can be from somewhere else, why not be from somewhere else?

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So. Those are some good and bad (or potentially bad) things I could think up in under ten minutes. I dunno, seems like an equal exchange, so I guess that's where it gets fun to discuss, right?

(Personally, I think that non-Gilnean Worgen should be allowed as it would be potentially for intriguing as an RPer to just not have all Worgen from one single place; similar to how we can have humans from most all nations and not just 'You can only play Stormwind humans because Stormwind is where your character spawns'.)

So uhh... Yeah. Release the hounds? (u c wut i did thar?)

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Woops. Lore section probably wasn't the best place to put this. Possible for someone to move this to the main General Discussion area? xD

[Scout]

there's a possibility that more people will -not- want to play traditional Gilnean worgen

Why would you ever give up the Victorian culture and top hats?

More seriously, though, I personally don't see any problem with it. It may be interesting to play a worgen from Silverpine, or even from Duskwood, considering the only real criterion seems to be that your worgen needs to have been administered the cure--so there's no reason that your character might not have been captured and given the cure elsewhere than Gilneas.

I, personally, prefer Gilnean worgen from a purely conceptual point of view, however.

[Grakor456]

There was some talk for, during Cata, allowing a one-time transfer for pre-existing characters to go from either Human -> Worgen or Human -> Forsaken. We never really hit a consensus on it, and likely won't be giving it too much thought until we have finalized plans for a move to Cataclysm, which may be a long way off still.

Feel free to keep discussing, though!

[Avitz]

Whilst having non-Gilnean worgen would be a pretty fun idea and does allow more variety in regards to the race, there would be one gaping problem.

How would those non-Gilnean worgen retain their sanity?

A part of the Worgen quest chain has the character consuming a potion, that as far as I am aware, is only used in Gilneas. So how would your worgen from duskwood/silverpine ferals (Although seeing as the sane ones get converted also, its reasonable in this case to assume they're just give the cure) / Hyjal?

I'm not opposing this idea by any means, but for Non-Gilnean/Silverpine Worgen it may be a little tricky profiling wise to have a profile that goes beyond the whole 'Regained my senses on my own' or 'Captured by gilneans and cured' or the least preferred 'I got better, Yo.'

[Rowgen]

Your answer.

Furthermore...

The Quest "No Escape", too.

Highlights

From the Worgen Curse.

The worgen curse is a curse that transforms people into the ferocious beasts known as Worgen. The curse can be passed on in two ways: Humans and night elves bitten by the unruly beasts contract the virulent curse and will turn into worgen. Drinking the blood of a worgen will also turn you into one. As of now, humans and night elves are the only known sentient beings able to contract the curse.

And...

The worgen curse has roots in both the Emerald Dream (through the wolf Ancient, Goldrinn) and the holy power of the goddess Elune. In addition, those worgen who imbibe the waters of Tal'doren — through the ritual they undergo to maintain balance between the worgen curse and their humanity—have a further resistance to the corruption of undeath.

And last of all, from the Hillsbrad Refugees;

... Realizing that the Forsaken will never stop hunting them until they become servants to the undead whether in life or death, they decided to take the offer of blood by Darius Crowley. Thus they became the Hillsbrad Worgen, to have the power to have their vengeance, and also so that the val'kyr would not be able to raise them as Forsaken after their death. Crowley and Ivar Bloodfang continued to make the blood offering to every human in Lordaeron they could find to bolster their numbers.

Notice what I bolded in those quotes.

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Also, as a small side-note; Due to taking the blood being willing and generally different from being bitten, those who consume the blood are not driven insane by it. At least, not quite. Ivar Bloodfang is an example of one such Worgen who used to be one of Alpha Prime's pups - Brutal and bloodthirsty he might be, but he's not a feral monster. The Gilnean Wolf Cult also aspired to become Worgen, much the same way as the Cult of the Damned and the Scourge.

[Rigley]

Personally I'm all in favor of a one-time window for change, both for worgen and undead. After that point I just say start them as such and put it in the backstory though. :B

[Rowgen]

It wouldn't take much effort for a Human player to be present in Lordaeron. At some point. The continent that is, not the nation. :P

[Rigley]

It wouldn't take much effort for a Human player to be present in Lordaeron. At some point. The continent that is, not the nation. :P

Especially between Hillsbrad being conquered and the battle at Andorhal.

[Avitz]

-Tactical Snip -

Thank you very much! I shall now commence scheming for a Non-Gilnean Worgen!

[Sol]

As Grakor says, we haven't discussed the possibility of Human -> Worgen and Human -> Forsaken racial changes yet in detail and it's not high on our list of priorities (the technical concerns of Cataclysm currently predominate when it comes to our tentative preparations for any switchover), but we'll be sure to make the policy clearly known when it's finally decided.

(For the record, though, I'm with Rigley on this.)

[Rowgen]

Especially between Hillsbrad being conquered and the battle at Andorhal.

... Not sure if sincere or not. xD

Thank you very much! I shall now commence scheming for a Non-Gilnean Worgen!

Scheme all you want, but 'til there's any conscensus on it from the GMs/Admins, assume the worst. :P


EDIT: A theory I had about the blood, by the way, is that while it doesn't make the Worgen "free" it makes them adept better to the Curse. Whether they are fully in control of their actions or if they develop feral tendencies - I think it depends on how they regained their mind. Death Knight Worgen completely regain their minds, for instance.

[Sol]

Mrm. Perhaps ingesting and metabolising the blood allows for a more 'stable' transformation than being bitten outright? It's all speculation, of course, but it certainly seems as though the Hillsbrad Worgen don't demonstrate many feral tendencies from the beginning.

[Rowgen]

Neither do the Bloodfang. They are all "bad guys" from the start, but when Alpha Prime died they had enough free will and control to simply get the hell out of there - and eventually join the Gilneans. The Bloodfang also include Worgen hailing from Silverpine and surrounding regions.

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--- Another point to take note of is that Alpha Prime probably didn't have any means like Tal'doren or potions to "cure" his pups. This suggests that the Worgen were intended to be sentient, but most turned feral due to their predatory nature and traumatic exposure to the curse (AKA being bitten).

[anji]

It's possible that a worgen could be of non-Gilnean origin, but, honestly, how many worgen aren't Gilneans? It seems to me that, in the time of Cataclysm, the worgen identity is almost inseparable from the Gilnean identity. Gilneans had been behind Greymane's Wall in isolation for years, and it was the worgen curse that ended a civil war and gave Gilneans a common cause. A worgen of non-Gilnean origin would be a rare exception.

And there's nothing wrong with a character being a rare exception, but too many rare exceptions will distort our idea of the norm. For a race that is literally werewolves, I think we should be careful about what kinds of characters we encourage.

In my opinion, non-Gilnean worgen should only be allowed if they had been trapped in Gilneas after Greymane's Wall was erected. These characters could be sailors, soldiers, or even common folk who had been in the wrong place at the wrong time. They would've experienced the struggle against the curse, and would be able to identify with fellow worgen just as well as, if not more than, they identify with their foreign origins.

I'm not too keen on worgen lore, of course, and everything I've said could be totally wrong. I can't recall if there are other ways to become a were-worgen, excepting Arugal's servants. But there's one thing I'm definitely opposed to regarding non-Gilnean worgen: transforming existing human characters into worgen. In my opinion, it seems too contrived for an existing character, who hadn't been in Gilneas, to contract the worgen curse. Furthermore, this could really devalue the Gilnean identity of worgen. Too many players who had coincidentally become worgen in the last year would make the race seem like a trend in character development, rather than a nation of people who have dealt with this crisis for years.

This is just my two pence, and as I said, I'm not too confident in my knowledge of worgen lore. But I do see a lot of great RP opportunities that could come from the return of the Gilnean people, and I'd hate it if there were too many special-snowflake werewolves in their place. A few exceptions might exist, but Gilneas has a unique Victorian flair and its own history - so why wouldn't you want your worgen to be a Gilnean?

[Rowgen]

Arguably, I have no plans of making non-Gilnean Worgen, nor do I intend to make a character a Worgen. However, I advocate the possibility of this being a viable option for the ones who do want to be non-Gilneans.

Furthermore, it's not snowflake; The links I provided would've proved that not only is it possible, it's even commonplace. Gilneans simply happen to be the largest force of Worgen available. This flair of being non-Gilnean would really just be like playing a Warsong Orc over a Frostwolf one, for instance.