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Grakor Grumbles: Heights and Weights
#1
So the height/weight charts haven't been changed in a while. But, they are also rather silly.

The charts that we use now were taken from WoW Wiki, though with some alterations (to note, the WoW Wiki numbers have changed since, and some of them are even more silly. 652 pounds for a maxed out orc? Daaaaaaaang.) I'm still not certain where all of the current numbers came from, but I'm also fairly certain some of them are wrong or just fairly exaggerated. Some of them probably came from the d20, but the d20 numbers are very, very wrong (the d20 claims, for example, that goblins are shorter than gnomes and that trolls are shorter than orcs, but false by what we see in-game.)

There's also the problem that Blizzard has, otherwise, not given solid numbers on racial heights and weights. Worse, the numbers that they do give are rather...suspect, probably because they are given by writers and not by people with any idea of how body builds and heights correspond to actual weights. I don't care if your quests say that orcs are 250 pounds, your artists are showing us this and that is at least a little bit more than 250 pounds if we're assuming he's 6'6". (I could probably buy 300 for that, but nonetheless.)

So the question comes as to if our current height/weight standards should change and how they should do so. I know a few people are a bit dubious about orcs being in the 400 pound range, for example, though I maintain that is certainly feasible (though admittedly, perhaps not universally true.)

I'm half tempted to stop trying to keep track of character height/weights beyond scale demands, but that's just sweeping the issue under the rug rather than trying to address it. Thoughts?
Have you hugged an orc today?
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#2
What if you take someone who is really good at eyeballing things, and has good knowledge of body builds/weights and all that. Then you get the average height of a human. Then you figure up how tall other races are on average based on the difference between them and a human. From there, if you know enough about weight vs. muscle mass, then someone with that knowledge should be able to figure up the average weight based on the models you see in game, and thus give an average weight range for them.

Complicated? Probably.
Accurate? Hopefully.
Worth it? You decide...
Who could do this?

NOT IT.
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#3
Quote:I'm half tempted to stop trying to keep track of character height/weights beyond scale demands, but that's just sweeping the issue under the rug rather than trying to address it.

I'm gonna be a broken record here, but blizzards team does not know how to write. We keep listening to their little changes and we're just going to be a bad roleplaying server who always does what blizzards writing staff dictates. I for one don't want our community turning into that. We are a private RP server after all, which means we are allowed some independence. That being said, I say we find, if needed, a happy medium, and go with it.

Although I'm all for sweeping the issue under the rug...
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#4
I only look for the heights on the wiki. Generally I take weights from comparable athletes, especially boxers and wrestlers. Considering that we are mainly drawing from more fit builds, I find that they give fair comparisons.
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#5
Part of me wonders if we should even bother keeping track of a characters weight and height. Does it even really matter in the long run? It can easily be marked down as 'Tall, Average, short' for height and 'Overweight, Muscular, Average, Lean, Skinny, ect' for weight.
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#6
I think a number just gives more life to the character. "How big are you?" "Well, big." To me that's very bland and boring. Instead we actually give them a numeric value, therefore giving the character a bit more value.
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#7
I'm all for using descriptors instead of exact numbers, personally. That was honestly my preference, and I only started using numbers because at some point it became a rule to use them. (I can't even remember who instated that one.)
Have you hugged an orc today?
- I am not tech support. Please do not contact me regarding technical issues. -
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#8
To be fair, in the WoWverse, would most characters even keep track of their height? How often does it -really- come up in RP? I think it would be a lot more convient, as not everyone on CoTH even uses the same measurement system. When someone says their character is, say 1.03 m tall. That means -nothing- to me, absolutely nothing. I'm sure that 5'6" means nothing to a lot of people who were raised on the metric system.
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#9
The hard part? Figuring out what the standard would be for the normal heights in game, like... Draenei compared to Tauren. Then, translating it in a way that would work with the scales and the actual sizes.
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#10
Sure, we could take away the numbers and replace them with simpler terms, but as an FH, my concern is that I'll very likely come across profiles where the player will describe the character as 'very tall for his/her race'. My question will be: what does that mean? If we throw away the number system, there won't be a way to answer that question in a concrete manner, and we could be approving these characters only to later find out that the character is claimed to be a 7'4" female human.

I say we keep things as they are. The limitations are necessary because a lot of players make their combat oriented characters as tall as possible as it is. Not saying that this is the case for everyone, but it's a relevant trend that needs to be mentioned.
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#11
I imagine that claims of 'very tall' will never exceed the 1.15 scale. Basically, you can never claim to be taller than anyone else who is also at the 1.15 scale [of your own race], just as you could never claim to be any shorter than someone at the 0.85 scale [of your own race].

Edit: Perhaps it would look something like

Height: Average [1.0 scale]
Weight: Average

Height: Tall [1.1 scale]
Weight: Average for scale.

Height: Very Short [0.86 scale]
Weight: Underweight for scale.

When you encounter someone listing themselves as 1.11-1.15 or 0.89-0.85, you'd question them on the height.
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#12
Well, I'm more saying that in the case of scaling/height charts, a 6'0 tall Troll might not be the same scale as a 6'0 tall Orc, which can lead to confusion. I know what you guys are saying, but.
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#13
Quote:Basically, you can never claim to be taller than anyone else who is also at the 1.15 scale [of your own race], just as you could never claim to be any shorter than someone at the 0.85 scale [of your own race].

The only problem here is when players have their characters use measurements ICly. It would have to be a rule that characters of the same race, sex, and scale can't be taller or shorter than each other no matter how tall their characters claim to be through measurement. Not that this would happen very often, but if it did, we'd have standardized measurements to refer to.

Aside from that, I don't see any problems that could arise from taking the numerical measurement system away.
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#14
This is what I do, as an artist rather than a writer and RPer:

In general, I give rough estimates of subtracted or added weight comparing the character's height and body mass to a real life model, especially if the person is more muscular than he/she is lean or chubby. I tend to use either athletes whose physical stats are given online, or models if I want someone who is more aesthetically pleasing than practical in appearance. When it comes to the non-human races with fantastic traits (draenei and tauren especially), then I estimate a relative scale with some added pounds due to things like tails, fat, muscle, etc.

For me, as an artist, determining weight and height due to body mass (and in relation to age and daily physical activity) is really important--it gives me an idea on not only body shape, but especially mobility and movement. This is especially so as very few of my characters actually match their in-game models. Examples are below (semi-nudity warning) :

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This is unfinished, by the way.

[Image: i3k.gif]

Okay, okay, there is nothing drawn under the censors because I didn't draw these to cover every detail. I mostly put the censor boxes for rule of funny.

The specifics:
  • Kapre (8') is taller than he is wide, and he is mostly composed of lean muscle--intended to be a contrast to the "refrigerator" shape the in-game model is made of. His plates, facial hair, and tendrils are also different from his game model's: the plates are fuller and more curved, his facial hair is also fuller, and his tendrils are longer. Lastly, his tail is longer than the game's draenei male's, as I added about several inches for purely aesthetic reasons. Despite his added height, Kapre would be lighter than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.

  • Kantado (6'5") is much thinner and shorter than the standard night elf male, plus he is much thinner and narrower in general, as to go against the "pizza shape" night elf males have (which I REALLY hate). As opposed to the sausages-for-limbs, his overall shape is lithe and wiry. He generally has a more youthful appearance, with longer ears and hair than his model suggests. He is very much lighter than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.

  • Mahen'tosh (5'5"), due to age as well as wear-and-tear, has shrunken since he's gone over the peak of his growth (you usually start shrinking once you hit your 50s) ; at age 83, he's primarily a sagging sack of skin, bones, and some fat (he has been a spellcaster all his life). I've seen artwork of Blizzard orcs wherein their backs are straight as opposed to the hunches their game models have; however, Mahen does have a hunch due to age and wear of his bones. He is a lot lighter than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.

  • Tibalan (8') isn't as active as other Tauren are--in fact, when he's not out there hunting, he's living a fairly sedentary lifestyle of art and cooking. That isn't to say Tibalan is slovenly and lethargic--he most certainly has muscle, but it's all underneath fat. He is very much heavier than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.

  • Urameil travels often, and despite being an aging spellcasting warlock, he leads a very active lifestyle--he runs, he walks, he climbs, he carries his own weights, and in general he keeps in shape. His trunk is wide despite this, thus fitting the "refrigerator" shape than Kapre does. He is heavier than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.
  • I'm not bothering with Arnaldo as I'm still figuring out his own design as far as the extent of rot and remaining flesh on his skeletal frame. One thing for sure, however, he's very, very agile and flexible and, at 5'4", is likely to be lighter than the game model's estimated weight at 1.0.


But you see, not every player cares for that amount of physical detail in their characters--most just roll what they like and run with what the game models suggest. I don't. I like differentiating my body types, especially because I despise most of what I see in-game. Weight, sadly, is not my forte--I mostly run with estimates.

Estimates will do people just fine, I think. Perhaps what I can suggest is either people giving an estimate of weight, or just rely on physical description to the best they can. Players and GMs can help with that.
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#15
(07-24-2013, 02:41 PM)Reigen Wrote: To be fair, in the WoWverse, would most characters even keep track of their height? How often does it -really- come up in RP? I think it would be a lot more convient, as not everyone on CoTH even uses the same measurement system. When someone says their character is, say 1.03 m tall. That means -nothing- to me, absolutely nothing. I'm sure that 5'6" means nothing to a lot of people who were raised on the metric system.

Pretty much the same for me when people use inches instead of meters. :P Quite right on that one.

Sweep it under the rug, I've never referred to it in RP nor have I ever mentioned my height/weight ICly. Even when I played a tailor and took down sizes for clothes, I just emoted as if I wrote numbers down without specifying them. Heck, I can't even recall all the sizes and weights I used on any of my profiles, to me removing it just makes the profile easier to submit as it feels like a pointless addition to begin with.

Very-tall/tall/average/short/very-short works for me.
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