Important News Regarding Alignments!

[Jeff]

I highly approve of this. Allignments are merely perspectives spawned by cultures and what is right and what is wrong. If anything, I believe alignments should be geared rather than towards the generic "good vs. evil" but towards "faction vs. faction." Though, that is where association comes in.

[Darkneon]

Well, this is a very odd situation. It seems that at this rate, one side is going to get it their way, and the others will be left to complain. May I suggest compromise? I understand fully what this is about, and would simply like this not to become to big an issue. Besides, would it kill us to finally stand on even ground for once, rather then this constant forum tug-of-war that seems to be growing every second?

Now, to keep it simple and sweet. Aligments proved a bases on which a character's personality can easily fit in with their history (or visa versa) when common sense and psycology are included. Also, they allow other players some idea of what to expect when going to roleplay with this certain character. In opposition to this, alignments tend to make a player feel restricted to the type of character they can have, seeing that points of view and personalites do change over time. Also, other players seem to almost lash out when a certain character does not stick to the aligment they have selected. Other notes include the entire paladin issue and related topics that can fit into these two categories.

Instead of just completely washing alignments away or keeping it a strict requirement, I make a point that we can keep it as a mandatory requirement. Though, simple rules cannot solve everything. This requires some effort on both sides of the rope. One, for people to accept those characters for who they've become. In addition to the player to justify the changes in alignment, and realize that they are not restricted to it. Though, this does not mean they should always try to change it.

I realize though, that this may not be an effective solution, being that there will always be people who will not agree. Editing your wiki profile with an Author's Note notifying changes in alignment and such information is always an option. Also, sometimes these changes cannot always be justified. In which case, there will always be arguement to oppose it. Therefor, another responsability to those seeking to change alignment really have a positive reason for doing so (thus why it was a requirement).

I make a point that this is seen as a solution in which we will all have to work for rather then just taking the easy way out. I also apologize for the long post and if I have offended anyone. I thank all who took the time to read this, and those who choose to support it, oppose it, or at least think about it.

EDIT: Made some minor changes, so it doesn't become to akward to read at points.

[Hawk]

Guys, remember what Rensin wrote in his first post:

you do not need to include alignment anymore,

He said you did not -NEED- to include it. Who says you can't add it in anyway?

It's saving a lot of time on behalf of this entire discussion.

EDIT: Minor editing to fix some errors.

[Darkneon]

Unfortunatly Hawk, that's not the main reason people are opposing this. It's not so much a matter of them wanting to include alignments, but having other players do it as well.

[Hawk]

Wait, you've lost me here.

From how I read it, it's sounding like you're saying players do or do not want to include their Allignment, yet they expect other people to?

Correct me if I'm wrong (which I think I am), just I think you worded it a bit... weirdly for me.

[Darkneon]

Wakka, was afraid of that. Simply put: The people opposing want to keep aligments not only for their characters, but want everybody else to do this as well. For the reasons mentioned in my pervious posts on matching personality with history and what not.

[Hawk]

Ah, that makes more sense, thankyou, heh.

Well, it just seems a bit odd to me that players are opposing having to add an Allignment being OPTIONAL. Like I mentioned before, it's not like it's being banned or anything. It's just whether or not you would prefer to add it or not, and I don't think people should be saying that you MUST add an Allignment or not seeing as it's now up to the player if they do it or not. :?

I'm also quite surprised at how long this discussion has been. XD Didn't think so many people would oppose against it.

Hopefully that made sense.

Mind you, me replying isn't helping the size of it, but that's not the point!

[Darkneon]

I understand that, though some people just like it better when you can easily categorize how a person is going to behave, seeing that personality takes sometime to think about and is hard to determine without having rp'd with the character much. Hard to explain really, categorizing is just one of those 'human' things we tend to feel most comfortable around, even though it may feel restricting to others.

I don't think people should be saying that you MUST add an Allignment

That's the compromise part I mentioned. Keeping it a strict requirement makes it seem that you have no room to work with it. Though allowing it to only be a mandatory requirement satifies the opposing party as well as not tying down the character.

[Kaghuros]

mandatory requirement

Mandatory means you MUST do something. I think you mean voluntary?

[Darkneon]

Wakka, another thing I was afraid of doing. I really can't quite find the right word between a Requirement and an Option. And a required option doesn't really sound like an option at all. Er, let me try to explain this as best I can: Something that is included, but isn't permanent in your character's development.

[Hawk]

I understand that, though some people just like it better when you can easily categorize how a person is going to behave, seeing that personality takes sometime to think about and is hard to determine without having rp'd with the character much. Hard to explain really, categorizing is just one of those 'human' things we tend to feel most comfortable around, even though it may feel restricting to others.

So kinda like an OCD thing? Heh. Whilst, of course, I can understand that, I think that they should just show respect to the player and let them have their freedom.

It's like going up to some random person on the street and asking them to take off their coat because you don't like the colour black. It's silly.

That's the compromise part I mentioned. Keeping it a strict requirement makes it seem that you have no room to work with it. Though allowing it to only be a mandatory requirement satifies the opposing party as well as not tying down the character.

I completely agree with this. But like I mentioned before, they should just let the players do what they want. It's their character, you know?

And sorry if I'm making all the opposing people seem like selfish bums here. XD Not my intention at all. And one last thing, I just realised I may be being a bit hypocritical myself here! So sorry about that too.

I'm actually dropping this, because it's not getting anywhere at this rate. XD /waves

[Darkneon]

I'd like to drop out as well, I'm finding myself trying my best to not end up choosing sides; though there is hardly any large argument happening other then the one I've created. Great >.< Greek Tragedy calls: They want their scapegoat back (>ME<)

[Qaza]

I can see the reason for this. I can see the reason against this, too.
I don't even remember why it was a requirement in the first place. :S

I think it was originally to spot glaring inconsistencies, like chaotic evil draenei paladins and whatnot. As stated by others, though, there's already plenty of ways to describe how your character interacts with the world that are far more accurate than two words, so I don't think we're really loosing anything here.

A lot of people misunderstand alignments, or have characters that fall into the gray areas in between the alignments. I think that reading a description of someone's personality and judging if they're warping how a character behaves for OOC benefit is a LOT more accurate than looking at their alignment. You can STILL cry foul if someone does this, it just requires reading a few more words. I know, I know. The horror.

Another slightly exaggerated example:

Going by alignment--

Max: /e settles down on the floor, pulls out a battered deck of cards from his pocket, and begins playing solitaire.

Jane: (( Your profile says you're chaotic neutral! Your character wouldn't like a game that requires so much order! You're just doing that because you want a reason to be sitting on the tavern floor! ))

Max: (( Uh... whoa? I'll just RP elsewhere, then... ))

Going by personality--

Max: /e settles down on the floor, pulls out a battered deck of cards from his pocket, and begins playing solitaire.

Jane: (( Oh, I was going to cry foul, but I see here that Max is obsessed with playing cards and makes his own decks, but isn't very good at explaining card game rules to others, so he plays solitare a lot. Makes sense. ))

Max: /e cackles as he covers a queen with a jack. "That's what you get, you mangy despot! Heehee!"

[Andrasia]

Hm, well, I guess it will give me one less thing to b***h about on profiles when I get my computer back up and running. @.@

[Harmonic]

What I'm hearing a lot of people say is that they are more concerned with other peoples profiles, rather than their own, which is well, needless to say, something you guys shouldn't worry about. It's not -your- profile.

As for the approving aspect and such, I'd really, -really- like to think we GMs are not stupid in any way, shape, or form, and could detect some obvious character flaws without having to label each character under those categories.

In peoples threads, again, we've noticed a majority of the player base commenting on people's alignments, and really, creating undue arguements over something that again... only the said player and a GM should worry about. While comments -are- appreciated on profiles, especially constructive ones, this will eliminate the profiles from being bogged down with long winded debates about how someone thinks your character would be more suited as one of the Alignments.


In short, don't worry about other people's profiles! Worry about your own!