Conquest of the Horde

As someone who likes doing the quests... yeah, I'd rather wait. Quests let me check out some lore (I've been enjoying doing TBC quests on Cristovao), get unique rewards (Because I do like having the stated gears over RPgears), and in general have something fun to do when RP is on the down-low.

-There are conceivable work-arounds for issues presented with the Worgen/Goblin starting areas. An example would be race-changes via commands, wholly negating the starting areas.
-Phasing thus far has shown no impact on us; it seems to work alright.

Personally in terms of the client I've had no issue with it. As well, the strange /says on NPCs have always been present on CotH-- we've dealt with them before and I don't see issue in using the same method on them here. I don't believe it would be an issue, or at least it would be as much of an issue as it is on the server currently.

Also regarding Grakor's list, I would be willing to lose the custom patch for Cata. Think about that for a moment, since I'm the one who pushed for it and has been using it the most-- I -love- the custom patch and have been spending three days downloading a full cata client to see if it is viable on the new core-- but I'd still be fine with losing it.

Regarding why this wasn't done sooner, I believe this is the first attempt which has actually produced a working core.


Patience is a virtue, yes, but the matter is that there isn't much insight into when these issues listed about will be fixed, if they will be fixed. Thus far we have heard of very little improvements, and I don't believe we'll see it coming in a month, if there are any to be found. I believe there is difference in being patient and being willing to make a change that you find perfectly viable for the intents and core purposes of the server. This is perhaps just a breach from my mentality and others; I see the server as something which should wholly concern itself with RP, and anything brought along be an extra facet. I've never considered working dungeons or raids as much more than an idle occupation of time, or a hindrance when it comes to possible uses of them in RP.

In short, I have been patient, and this isn't really a matter of patience with me at all. I may have said this publicly in the past, but I've stated before that I would personally respawn an empty world if it got us Cata; I just see it as -worth- it, really. The only things which would give me pause to a jump would be instability in terms of simple things we could not prevent-- similar to how Arc was prone to crashing at random. But I haven't seen that yet, only problems we could likely address in some manner or another.

So don't think of me as being impatient, just with different concerns and ideas of what should be prioritized. As I said in my post above, I believe that's really what it will boil down to in a conversation on if Cata should be implemented or not. Until I'm given further evidence (and I've been on the server, just to be clear-- I'm speaking from experience when I state all of this) I'm still in support.

(08-21-2012, 11:45 AM)Rigley Wrote: [ -> ]-There are conceivable work-arounds for issues presented with the Worgen/Goblin starting areas. An example would be race-changes via commands, wholly negating the starting areas.
-Phasing thus far has shown no impact on us; it seems to work alright.

Personally in terms of the client I've had no issue with it. As well, the strange /says on NPCs have always been present on CotH-- we've dealt with them before and I don't see issue in using the same method on them here. I don't believe it would be an issue, or at least it would be as much of an issue as it is on the server currently.

Also regarding Grakor's list, I would be willing to lose the custom patch for Cata. Think about that for a moment, since I'm the one who pushed for it and has been using it the most-- I -love- the custom patch and have been spending three days downloading a full cata client to see if it is viable on the new core-- but I'd still be fine with losing it.

Regarding why this wasn't done sooner, I believe this is the first attempt which has actually produced a working core.


Patience is a virtue, yes, but the matter is that there isn't much insight into when these issues listed about will be fixed, if they will be fixed. Thus far we have heard of very little improvements, and I don't believe we'll see it coming in a month, if there are any to be found. I believe there is difference in being patient and being willing to make a change that you find perfectly viable for the intents and core purposes of the server. This is perhaps just a breach from my mentality and others; I see the server as something which should wholly concern itself with RP, and anything brought along be an extra facet. I've never considered working dungeons or raids as much more than an idle occupation of time, or a hindrance when it comes to possible uses of them in RP.

In short, I have been patient, and this isn't really a matter of patience with me at all. I may have said this publicly in the past, but I've stated before that I would personally respawn an empty world if it got us Cata; I just see it as -worth- it, really. The only things which would give me pause to a jump would be instability in terms of simple things we could not prevent-- similar to how Arc was prone to crashing at random. But I haven't seen that yet, only problems we could likely address in some manner or another.

So don't think of me as being impatient, just with different concerns and ideas of what should be prioritized. As I said in my post above, I believe that's really what it will boil down to in a conversation on if Cata should be implemented or not. Until I'm given further evidence (and I've been on the server, just to be clear-- I'm speaking from experience when I state all of this) I'm still in support.

First off, I apologize. I never wished to imply you were impatient, I was doubtful of writing the last bit but as it tends to show afterwards, I should have kept the fancy quotes at bay.

I was hoping to get some more information / clarifications regarding that post while raising some concerns for the other which you answered quite well so for that; Thank you.

The custom patch itself was never a big deal to me, I've only made rare use of the zones that required it (or I simply have yet to see the changes made everywhere) but it was part of the full list so I figured I'd keep the post intact. ^^ No more questions from me really. In the end, the call is at the team and I'll just follow whatever get's chosen. I just hope I don't have to beat my computer with a hammer to get that client working when the call gets made.

In the end, it isn't my decision as to where the server goes of course. But as long as we're posting opinions I felt it worth stating why I personally feel we should go on with it.

Agree to disagree, and so forth. There are other GMs who think otherwise of my opinion as well.

I would think another concern would be the server stability.

Would the change to Cata affect how many people would be able to be on the server, or any sort of crashing problems due to the amount of players connected?

Okay, I read through the most recent posts and I have some ideas. Many people here, just like Rigley, quest and raid for items to RP with or just because they enjoy having the actual item, instead of a statless copy of it. I remember the times when we actually didn't have the .ad command. We had Silver Tokens. I think this could be a possible way to suit the needs of at least part of the people who are fond of PvE on the server. But, then again, a problem remains - the low-level characters of new players that can't afford tokens. Will the .ad command be still available on the Cata core?
Also, Silver Tokens were creating too much work for the GMs to bare, if I am not mistaken. Wasn't this the reason they were removed?
All things considered and after reading a big portion of the thread (I haven't read all of it, I admit), I totally agree with Rigley. In fact, he said exactly what I was thinking in his last few posts.

I've not heard if .addrp items will be carried through, but I would imagine it's possible. We'd have to listen in on Kret regarding that.

On the other hand, I suppose it fair to point out that a new player can't really earn the kind of gold you need for a token easily already, unless someone is generous and gives them cash.

I'm not sure how much of X or Y is broken in Cata, or what Cata is even like. But I do know that some of the raids in our wrath are broken anyways. I remember invisi-NPCs slaughtering in Ulduar, how the Culling of Stratholme doesn't work at all so you can't do anything after it, and how most of ICC is undoable. Some raids that did work required a huge and full party that the server population didn't support. I remember not being able to keep those two guys in AQ apart, and our whole party just getting overwhelmed in Black Temple because it was meant to support a raid.

I'm just saying that I've already dealt with broken quests and undoable raids in Wrath, and the novelty of raiding really wore off fast and bored me. I really want to go through with Cata. :c

I say make a poll along the lines of "Broken Cata, tons of restarts and bugfixes VS. Slightly More Working Cata, longer wait time" and just see what the people want, then take that into account when making the decision to press forward or wait longer. I can fully understand the nightmare it is to find fixes or fix them yourself, but it's a matter of keeping the populace waiting, or frustrating them with more and more restarts and downtime. That's a very difficult decision, and players would need to keep it in mind if you did go with their decision: That it -was- their decision.

I'm by no means trying to tell you anything you don't already know, Kret/Grak, but it may help my fellow players if we keep this in our heads.

As for my personal preference, I say pushing ahead is the best plan, simply because the server is only going to get more and more stale as time wears on. I don't want to beat around the bush when I say that the RP is still bountiful, but it's far more sparse then it once was. We can handle restarts. We handled the PSU outage, and we handled the last full restart. We can handle spotty connectivity and bugs.

RP is the main concern for the server. We are an RP server, people come here because they want RP. If you love leveling, more power to you, it'll still be possible, if a little more difficult. There have always been bugs, bugs are a part of -not paying for the game.-

ON the same token, I could say that I wouldn't want to drive away those RPer's who love to level on quiet servers where they don't have to fight for spawn camps and loot. However, I don't think we should put predominance upon that play style because when it all boils down, we're about RP. I think getting a date for the core switch might be a good plan, even if you have to shift the date around a few times. What I'm feeling from those who want Cata is that they don't like wading around in all the "Soons" and "Somedays." I've stated before that I'll wait forever if I have to but I really would like it sooner and buggier rather than later.

My only concern is about top hats. As long as they work if we switch to Cata, I'm happy.

The top hats are nice. Unfortunately, I heard "The Day Deathwing Came" doesn't work, which is a big disappointment for me.

Even if we were to put up a poll, I don't think people would be able to make a reliable decision on whether they think we should make the move or not. Going by this thread, it seems almost a 50/50 split in vocal opinion. There are pros and cons, but this isn't the type of thing that you can decide just by seeing which list is longer.

In the end, it comes down to what mechanics are worth to you. CotH has always been about presenting as Blizzlike an experience as possible to its players - within the restrictions of a emulator and without infringing on the ability to freely roleplay. Where leveling and raiding is concerned, you've always been able to choose between climbing the stairs and riding the elevator. If we can, that's an option we would want to be able to keep open. There are workarounds to a lot of the problems we will be facing. They're not all ideal, but they do the job.

I have spent the last few months slowly catching up on Cataclysm quests. I have read the recent novels and mucked around on trial accounts and Molten WoW. It's not the best lore ever written, but it builds on the world we've come to enjoy playing in, and that makes it all the more enjoyable.

Other servers might have working raids, instances, spells, and quests, but they don't have CotH's community. They don't have our system, our standards, or our roleplayers. You can visit other servers (including retail) to PvP, raid, quest, etc., but you can't go anywhere else to get the roleplay experience we provide. Just to be clear, I'm not saying, 'if you don't like it you should leave', I'm simply making the point that we have something truly unique. If we can make that exclusive part of us even better, then I say, let's!

Agreeing with all the people who pointed this out, we are a role-playing server. Tis why I joined! :P

Cata would spice things up in our server, and the staleness is something that has worn on me several times, including now. I personally just want something fresh and new, something different. Not saying I don't like what we have, but we've been stuck in the same time line for quite a while now. That bridge 1 year has been like two and a half for us.

To be clear, as I can't help but feel it has been ever slightly exaggerated thus far--

As I stated in my own personal requirements for a Cata server, I'm looking for a server that has:
-Fair stability (barring mucking about on a player-side issue)
-All races working or otherwise viable for use in RP.

From what I've seen the cores we've been looking into seem to fill that concern-- The only crashes I've seen have all been due to our own ill-advised actions (because raiding Illidan was really not the smartest move, everything in consideration), or things which otherwise seem avoidable. If the server stays up while we're standing around roleplaying, then that's -perfect-. All I want, really-- I suppose the simplicity of my demands makes me quite easy to appease when it comes to finding a core.

Then again, I've been downloading a full client these last few days in the hopes we can carry over the custom patch-- should be able to test that once I'm home from college, so let's get our fingers crossed I suppose.

I -do- wish the intances and such to be fixed, I like to play them and this is the only server I play on :3 FOR CONQUEST OF THE HORDE!!!!!