What's wrong with hunters having rather odd pets?

[Raven776]

I was walking into a place where pets were allowed IC with a hunter friend. She had a rather large crab, about waist height and an arm span wide. Simply one troll walked by, said it was unrealistic, and the thing shrunk. First I thought it was a joke. Admins like to joke, so what? Right in the middle of an RP after all.

Turns out it was a permanent change. The admin believed that for some reason this pet was too large to be realistic. Do night elves have to be cruel and stronger than their pets to tame it? Even if this was true, what would imply this particular huntress wouldn't be able to be stronger than this thing? Did he believe the crab was too stupid to be a hunters pet? Then why would he just shrink it? What's the difference between a huge crab and a small crab in oddness?

I may have made the wrong impression in the following argument. I did get rather fired up over this. I couldn't comprehend how an admin would simply shrink a pet without warning beforehand. I have noticed a bit of a stigma with this huntress and her character's choices other than the pet in the arguments which implies the GMs carrying out this hasty punishment also have a few other problems with her.

I didn't write this thread merely to state out the unfairness of this case, but to point out a few things about hunters, their pets, and their bonds you can find directly from the WoWwiki...which is the only good source to warcraft lore to those of us who don't carry books and guides.

"The hunter is one of the oldest classes in history. They represent a deep connection between man and beast, and the hunters of Warcraft are not merely individuals who track animals and slay them for food, but custodians of balance. "

"All hunters create lifelong friendships with animal companions, who are also often their best and only friends, if the stereotype of the reclusive huntsman is to be believed."

(http://www.wowpedia.org/Hunter)

Simply these all strengthen the idea of a mutual bond between a hunter and their pet. I know this huntress has a story for her pet, and has used it IC. I know, also, that other admins have seen this pet and mentioned it in RP as the large thing it is.

For now, I will digress. In the off chance this post gets noticed and my words heard (Most of which I remind you are directly from WoWwiki) by the admins I am referring to I will post this last piece of Lore. This applies very well to the character in question...

"The hunter is the choice of life for those who reject societies that oppress the natural role as prey and hunter, and also reject the druidic stance that we should be healers and observers rather than active participants in the "Great Hunt". They follow a life of reverence for nature complimenting their tradition and willingness to use man-made tools. We are all tool-using creatures after all, and it is only natural to use that advantage afforded by nature to be better hunters, though there are also many hunters who prefer a more direct approach to tracking and hunting. "

Which comes first, Race or class? I can't say. It's not my place.

My last and final plea is that this decision is rethought. Not just for her, but for every hunter or oddball out there. Many times her other character traits were mentioned after this. I was told that this server is not the place for characters being unique, though that is not an exact quote. Are her actions any more out of the ordinary than the death knights being accepted into the horde and alliance? I know this was not serverside lore, but it has been acknowledged. Things in Azeroth are not normal. Yes we would not see a giant crab following around a rather petite woman in real life, but neither are we to see mechanical creations which fly with the tiniest wings or small metal squirrels that skitter about our feet.

[Harmonic]

It wasn't that you just had an odd pet, Raven. You have a crab that's SUPER large. Larger than your elf. You ride around ontop of it's back, like it's a mount, ontop of having the over-the-top Elf that also apparently has an interest in being a mechanic, or tinkerer.

Why would a giant Crab suddenly decide to be tamed by you? A -large- savage beast that has no rational reason to follow you around, and let you do the things you do with it? I understand it's tamable. I understand that DEVILSAURS are tamable. But does that mean that it's always logical? No.

You have an extremely unique character. -Extremely-. People were defending you in chat, without providing a reason for you having that sort of pet -aside- from you being unique.

When I told you to drop the topic, I said quite clearly I'm -fine- with it if there is logic behind the matter -besides- "because I can."

By all means, prove otherwise. Work for it.

[Harmonic]

Double post. I'll clarify what I'm saying here. I don't think I agree that the crab should have been shrunk down to size, however, I do think that the player in question should perhaps RP out this "taming". Why? It -is- an incredibly gigantic crab, and I'd rather see them work for it a little bit than say "Well, it's tamable".

I can understand your reactions, but also... the ways you both had handled it was less that suitable, hence why I stepped in.

Again, just please work for it.

[Raven776]

I would like to state off of the bat during this conversation that I am not that elf. Nor was I asked to write this post. I was not in any way hinted by anyone else towards the injustice of this case. I simply saw, and did not like. I have no personal stakes in this except my own reputation and possibly a forums/game ban, and I am fine with that risk

Did you ask her the IC reasons? Possibly, I don't know what's going on around the admins boards. Your reply when you thought I was her however implies you did not.

Are all beasts in WoW savage? Do you have any lore to back up this particular crab is? Are sabers or tigers so commonly used as pets savage as well? Are we to deny this logic towards these pets, the same logic you are using against the crab, just because these pets are usual animals? I would hope not.

As for the uniqueness of the character...that is all explained in the before mentioned quote.

Spoiler:

The hunter is the choice of life for those who reject societies that oppress the natural role as prey and hunter, and also reject the druidic stance that we should be healers and observers rather than active participants in the "Great Hunt". They follow a life of reverence for nature complimenting their tradition and willingness to use man-made tools. We are all tool-using creatures after all, and it is only natural to use that advantage afforded by nature to be better hunters, though there are also many hunters who prefer a more direct approach to tracking and hunting.

As I stated before it is not my place to decide whether race comes before class...but forever people have asked this individual how she can justify her character. Man-made tools may apply to a lot of things, but this quote directly from WoWwiki personifies this rather hands on character.

Furthermore, I do not see other hunters getting chastised for their use of pets. This is simply one of the most ugly, bulbous pets you can find. It is not as large as you seem to be implying, either. It comes to waist to an elf. She also does not ride on its back. She sits on it, but she rarely ever rides it for more than a few paces before getting off. This is very irrelevant as well. Your argument here only proves my point that you hate the oddity of her character more than the suggested lore breaking.

Let us assume for one moment that this character was allowed to have this pet for one moment. What would stop her from sitting on it's back? It's stocky with broad legs. That certainly doesn't break lore.


Moving on. Are crabs known to be hostile? Are they particular vicious creatures? Is a beach setting out of the ordinary for one? It's large, but it's not a behemoth. Do they hunt out humans and others with bloodlust and racial hate?

If you can really answer yes to this...and I would like to state clearly that according to a few other pieces of in game mechanic and research that only 6 out of the thirty two tamable crab species are in fact hostile...then perhaps you can bring to light further as to why it's not allowed.

You're telling a hunter to work for their pet because it's a pet you aren't used to. You're telling them they're not allowed to tame something because you don't like it. You see something that breaks your schema of how this game should be. You saw someone who did things out of the ordinary. You did not ask, discuss, or warn. You shrunk that crab down to the size of a mouse, smaller than any other tamable pet, at least to my understanding.

No other hunter has had to explain outright why they're followed by a bear or a panther, depending on their race. This elf resides in a beach front area, and despite common belief she spends much of her time out of the main city. Wouldn't it be likely then to have an animal such as a crab as a companion? What better to suit this place?

Did you understand that the huntress in question had a story for it? I do not know the entire story, but saving an animals life and caring for it at all has been proven to (in real life, which is as realistic as it gets. You're welcome) create a mutual bond and a certain dependency.

My final statement here...I would like to conclude with a simply apology. I can not sit by and watch things I do not find just or logical to sit untouched. I am a meddler, but if it is not a meddler to stand up for injustice and wrongs in a case for those who will not, then does that make this perceived injustice not exist?

[Harmonic]

Yep. I am. And it's because it's a unique, gigantic pet. That's odd. I'd do it with most other "Exotic" pets too, especially, again as I said before, this person in question already has a super unique character.

Is it -that- big of a deal to ask people to post about how they came by something? We are an RP server, writing is pivitol. Sorry.

[Cressy]

So, I am just going to say something.

A hunters pet has a use, whether it is retrieving the animal it kills, keeping guard to help them watch out, or to fight with them..It has a purpose. Someone is not going to waste time to teach a crab to be tame for them because they aren't a fighting creature as I believe you said.

So what is the benefit of it? Sometimes people push the whole, "I am a unique flower" too far. I mean, I used to do the same type of stuff, but I evolved and really learned why it was illogical and just too far stretched.

I have noticed a bit of a stigma with this huntress and her character's choices other than the pet in the arguments which implies the GMs carrying out this hasty punishment also have a few other problems with her.

And just to clarify.

You assume wrong, no one has a beef with her, but, and I speak only for myself, I do find her character a bit out there and lore-breaking; something I have stated to her previously, though my opinion meant very little to her and to you when I said it. Kind of like it did in this situation. My whole issue with it was that you refused to let us explain anything at all. You were quick to say, "U BTR LISSEN 2 MEH," but didn't give us the same courtesy.

Sidenote: The pet will go back to the original size when she logs back in; scale modification doesn't stick.

[Kretol]

I'll just assume for a moment that, since we're talking about giant crabs, the crab in question is [npc]Kili'ua[/npc], and it didn't actually shrink when tamed as it was supposed to..?

[Raven776]

This person in question is a super-unique character by the definition of any Kal'dorei, but like any other character by definition of a hunter. This is simply said to point out that when this character was created that it's racial ties came in second to something else, but that it's something else is a completely acceptable basis for characters.

Building upon that, if there is nothing unsound about this purely fictional setting we are in, is it not logical for a super-unique (and approved, I may add) character to have a rather quirky and odd pet? It's not exactly strong...no stronger than any Tauren hefting maces twice the size of that elf or of a gnome that shoots rockets from his hand. In character it is the one thing a hunter has going for them...other than the ability to carry two weapons at once, of course...to have a pet.

Is this pet really considered exotic? I certainly don't think so, but again I am not used to seeing hunter pets at all considering most of the RP people do is inside a tavern.

You have stated here that a simple forum post would remedy this situation? Well, as much as I would like to state how much of a double standard this is, it's not so much of an inconvenience. You've implied by saying this that such a creature -could- possibly be tamed and -does- have the potential to be her pet, but that you just want to know how. Is that correct?


......................................................................................................


Are you stating that this crab doesn't have its uses in a beach front area? Is it completely unbelievable that someone who is living most of her life among a harbor town and in a tropical forest surrounded by water does not have any use for an aquatic food collecter and carapace'd protector?

I would like to also state that you did not give her a chance to state her case. Nor did you explain beforehand about the shrinking or after about the temporary situation in in game mechanics it would be.

This merely passed the "You were quick to say, "U BTR LISSEN 2 MEH," but didn't give us the same courtesy." ball to your court.

I will state however I did mention a few things that were wildly outrageous and had nothing to do with this case in a fit of anger.

......................................................................................................

It did shrink when tamed to a waist high height...which is how all pets are shrunk to. If this is not what the admins saw, as I suspected and suggested (for this is a common glitch) then this was a misunderstanding.

[Raven776]

I am sorry for the double post, but mine got so very long that I do not believe someone would notice an edit and because this is a completely new and perhaps unrelated idea. I would like to say however that one element of RP is to find a goal and to submit yourself by whatever means necessary to make that reward or some outcome appealing towards your character. These are not my words, but the words forever immortalized into the signature of the prominent GM to post before me. Maybe I misunderstand them or bring them a meaning that is not intended, but to say something simply does not make sense for a character to have while you have also stated indirectly that it is possible to have and plausible under certain circumstances seems to conflict with this core belief that I would like to think should be carried all over the server.

[Harmonic]

Raven, again, that's all fine and dandy. I'd like to see this RP on our forums. This is getting to be as big of a deal as it was in game.

Yes, I do expect people to work for things. Sorry. It shouldn't have been shrunk like that, but, again, this shouldn't be such a big deal for someone to write up WHY they were able to tame an abnormally large crab. Abnormal by WoW standards, I mean.

[Raven776]

There was never really an explanation to write up why on the forums. Perhaps there was and I did not see or hear it, and if that is so then I do apologize seriously for that.

Secondly, you apologize simply for the effect to imply that work is something I find displeasing or avoid. I would like to point out that this is not the case, and that I am a prolific writer on everywhere except these forums.

Lastly, this crab is not abnormally large by WoW standards. It shrunk down to the size any crab would. If you are seeing it at this size then I would like to say right now that this has been a misunderstanding. It is an infamous, if comedic in some circumstances, where this crab does not shrink down to the correct size in everyone's view. In reality, this is a crab that's only big enough to sit on as a stool, and could perhaps fit half a gnomes head in its mouth. Then again, who can't?

Spoiler:

[Jeff]

I do not know how large the Crab in question is... but if it was large enough to ride I'm thinking it'd be some sort of spider crab. They are super agressive usually.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Spider_Crab

[Raven776]

It would be around that size perhaps. Though you must always remember warcraft three lore is a far step away from World of Warcraft lore when it comes to things such as creeps, units, and anything but the storyline.

[Jeff]

Yes, that is very true too.

[Harmonic]

It's bigger than it should be, so yes. It's large. Again, I'm sorry, but it shouldn't be as big as it was. Also. I don't think that a hunter could -normally- tame something like that without having an explaination.

Like, a forum post. Otherwise, they are running around with something most hunters wouldn't tame, or -realistically- use. That's my reasoning.

It's not that big of a request, I'm not saying -she can't have it-, but I'm saying we need some reason -behind- to why she should have it.

I'm repeating myself Raven. And you've even said this isn't your character. Again, before they start playing around with this sort of hunter pet, I want an IC post about it.

I don't know how plain to make it. I don't know how to simplify this anymore. Heh.