On Warlocks...?

[rentiger1]

I think you are looking at this from the wrong stance when you compare it to Arcane. Being a warlock is like being a priest in that your power comes from an intelligent source, demons. Demons use you as a portal into the world, they are summoned and are slaves for the purpose of getting access to Azaroth. The warlock become an advocate of these beings, he chooses to let their magic flow through him. I would say it is a tainted magic, where a regular mage will become corrupted with ambition, the corruption is more direct with a warlock. Where a priest is given good light when they channel to strengthen them against evil, a warlock is fed negative power to make them more of a tool for the evil forces.

Warlocks should be thought of as the crack addicts of the magic world. They are given just enough to keep them on the line and in return the demons will ask for “favors” in return. This should be considered in the RP. If your Warlock starts out as a good and noble person, I would be ready to run some tragic plots where the hero slowly sacrifices his goodness for his power or other ambitions.

A classic case of this would be Dante or for you anime fans Griffith from “Berzerk”. These are good and noble character who slowly sacrifice to greater powers to gain more power. Warlocks may not start as evil, but they do pick evil friends to hang out with.

[Anaros]

Just an oppinion here:

Personally I don't have a problem with the idea of a good warlock if the character is believable in these points:

Why did they become a warlock in the first place? I'd say there's better ways to help the world than demonic magic so why would the character be a warlock.

And how do they deal with the corrupting influence of their magic? The influence of fel should manifest somehow in the character.

[Cepht]

I've been working on just the opposite problem - whether or not a priest (other than a shadow priest ) must be good.

Something I did not think of at first was stability. Yes, a holy priest could stumble into temptation and become evil, and I don't see why a warlock could not have a heart. But how likely is it for such an odd ball to remain that way. I think in both cases we are talking about characters who differ greatly from the norm.

A student who follows tried and tested educational methods will be more *likely* to achieve education than the one student who tries to learn in an unorthodox way. Thats not to say that the conventional student will succeed or that the unconventional student will fail, rather the conventional student will have probability on his side and perhaps some other synergies.

I think that a character that defies convention would have a might higher probability over time to go astray or decay so to speak. I think the good warlock would face a high probability of either turning evil or changing his class while the priest would face a high probability of redeeming himself or giving up his priestly status for another class.

As mentioned earlier, I would agree that one's unconventional trait might work against the character at some point. The holy priest who sins might be temporarily weakened as a result of turning his back, while the warlock might have some difficulty in working with fel energy as a consequence of their good alignment.

All in all, I think that such internal conflicts can result in some very unique and interesting characters.

[Grakor456]

I think you are looking at this from the wrong stance when you compare it to Arcane. Being a warlock is like being a priest in that your power comes from an intelligent source, demons.

Not...really, no.

First off, comparisons to priests are a plain apples and oranges sort of comparison. Priests use divine magic, warlocks use arcane. The rules by which they use their magic are utterly different, so you really can't compare the two at all. In fact, your basic premise has a flaw...there's belief that priests are NOT, in fact, drawing from an intelligent source, other than themselves.

Mages and warlocks are both arcanists. It's that simple. Their spells follow the same rules, the difference is in the finer details, so comparisons between the two are completely valid. The power of warlocks is a subset of arcane magic in general, and it's because of that that it's important to compare the two. In fact, there's nothing saying that all warlocks are drawing power directly from living demons at all...and certainly nowhere in the same manner as priests even if they were.

[Harmonic]

Arcane is -severly- corrupting. The reason Night elves, aside frome the highbourne, don't use it is because it literally twists and warps their bodies to use it.

At the base, Arcane and Fel are both corrupting substances. It's easiest (although inaccurate) to look at them as if they are substances that put out a half-life. Some things are a bit more poisonous that others... but they are still poisonous.

[Dmitra]

I think that there are warlocks out there that are "good" in a sense, that they do not intentionally do bad or "evil" things. But the fact is that Fel and Arcane magic is very corruptable, it takes extreme will power not to be corrupted completely.

[Kaghuros]

Yes, being a Warlock does not actually make you evil, but little "e" "evil" is relative. Warlocks, over time, become more and more self-serving and prideful (Or greedy, or other sorts of personal Sins). The corruption can be subtle (Lying in order to further your aims, even if you believe you're doing right) to blatant (Killing the leader of a coven to gain his grimoire and become more powerful), to outright big "E" "Evil" (Summoning foul Daemons into the world to become the ruler of a kingdom).

[Beltharean]

What I got from leveling my warlock up on retail was, that you are a good aligned warlock, and instead of becoming such out of need for power, these retail warlocks are doing it to fight fire with fire. They've learned how to harness the fel to destroy the legion with their own tools. To turn brother against brother, and steal their magic right out from beneath them. Of course, it is corrupting, and these warlocks will most likely end up turning more and more deceitful, cunning, and treacherous, but in the end, they're doing it for a good reason to start out with.

Of course, the holy light would be a better alternative in nearly every aspect except for one key factor; The light takes years, devotion, and selflessness to use. Most warlocks were once mages, and as such, already have arcane corruption to the point that they just don't even have time to think about the light. Why should they have to beg for the ability to burn an undead's flesh, when they can summon a fire ball to do just as much damage, but keep their pride?

So, unless you're using runes to cast your spells (Dark Inscriber) you'll be taking in this corruption. As the post above says, there's a difference between corrupted, and Evil. You might not have a single problem killing an innocent when you're corrupted, but if you're actively seeking to be Evil, your mindset is half of what it takes. Would you be willing to destroy full -towns- to further your goal? Would you aid in summoning Sargeras to the world? Etc. etc.

[rentiger1]

If we look at lore we see that one of the first warlocks to come to Azaroth was Gul'dan an orc, and from reading the lore there is no hint he was a mage before he became a warlock. Gul'dan learned all of his magic from the demon Kil'jaeden, directly, and it even states it was a “new” magic. The very land of the orc nation was becoming corrupted because of the warlock magic, the energy they used was not just corrupting them, but the land around them. (Chapter 3: The Doom of Draenor)

I would still say the power they use is NOT the same power used by the mages. The power they use is from a different source, the homeworld of the Draenei if I recall. It is not as if these are mages who have chosen to flip to a darker path. These warlocks have a completely different magic set and set of rules all together. I have not seen anything in the lore to suggest these are once mages who have turned evil. If that was the case then a warlock would be a talent tree in the class like shadow is to a priest.

I would say again, if you want your warlock to have good intentions, that is fine, but in the end they will be a tragic hero. They have made a choice to literally learn at the feet of demons, to be the students of evil arts.

[FlyingSquirrel]

1: The Orcish Warlocks are former Shamans, but are Warlocks for the same reason: More power.

2: As far as I know, Draenor exploded after the second War from Gul'Dan creating a lot of portals.

3: As far as I know, they pull the power off the demons themselves, not sure.

"Warlocks were once arcanists - or shamans in the case of the orcs - who, in pursuit of ever-greater sources of power, abandoned their studies of the arcane or nature and delved into darker, fel-based shadow magic."

I agree with the last sentence. They are quite a bit like Demon Hunters in that sacrifice.
Except Demon Hunters did more.

[Grimnir]

It's my understanding that warlocks use fel magic, which is directly linked too demons. Arcane magic is similar to fel, but is filtered somewhat, and originally came specifically from/through the Well of Eternity.

Both warlocks and mages usually develop an addiction to their specified magic with prolonged use. The difference is that when a mage uses arcane magic, they are only tempted to use more of. When a warlock uses fel magic, they are tempted by the demonic presence to both obtain more fel energy, and commit evil acts.

But I agree with what people have said with warlocks decline into darkness. For a RP warlock to remain good, they would need to take rigorous precautions, and even then it would only diminish the decaying, not prevent it.

[Piroska]

If we look at lore we see that one of the first warlocks to come to Azaroth was Gul'dan an orc [...].

Not entirely true. Shortly after the establishment of the magocratic city-state of Dalaran, the people there starting running into strange creatures that appeared in the vicinity of the area -- some of which were being utilized by the mages. Perplexed and worried of being overwhelmed, the people of Dalaran turned to the Quel'dorei to determine what was going on. This is when the high elves shared their sordid history in regards to the Burning Legion and the Sundering with the representatives of Dalaran. The Council of Tirisfal was established as a result, to combat the larger threat represented by the demons.

This was at least a few hundred years (if not more than a thousand) before the opening of the Dark Portal.

The demonic are attracted or allowed easier access to this world through the arcane. The large amount of arcane concentrated in and around Dalaran allowed the barriers between worlds/planes/whatever to weaken and for the demons to get access to Azeroth again. There were mages who took advantage of that opportunity, though I don't think that they reached the level of mastery evidenced by today's warlocks and the term definitely wasn't utilized at the time.

I would still say the power they use is NOT the same power used by the mages.

Fel magic is arcane magic that has been perverted by the demonic, usually through use of their blood. The Fel article on WoWWiki states:

The ultimate manifestation of the demonic arcane on Azeroth is fel (aka fel energy or fel magic). This energy, which most commonly manifests itself as ghastly, green-yellow flame, is arcane magic at its most corrupt, for it employs the blood of demons.

The roleplaying game doesn't see enough distinction between mage or warlock (or even necromancer) to make them their own unique classes. Instead, they fall under the broad category of arcanist, a class that encompasses all users of arcane magic -- "those who seek power without regard for consequences, and those who think arcane might can be handled responsibly." A player selects one of the three paths and gains abilities; in time, he may select to multiclass his character by pursuing any of the other arcanist paths.

There are a couple of key points made of arcanists in the guide. Their total arcanist level is determined by the culmination of every level of all three arcanist paths. Regardless of path, spell knowledge is never lost; a spellcaster knows all of the spells she has learned and the guide encourages her to teach those spells to others.


Use of the arcane has debilitating effects on the user, physically and mentally. It is draining, for one. It also invariably creates in the user the desire to obtain more: more Arcane, more power, more everything. Many arcanists are able to channel this desire into positive ends; they throw themselves deeper into study and grow stronger as a result. Someone, however, seek easily-accessible paths that grant them more power for less effort -- but often at greater costs. These would include warlocks and necromancers.

Where the Arcane creates a desire for more, the Fel creates a need for more. Just as the magic is a perverted form of the Arcane, so too does the user become a perverted form of herself.

[Grakor456]

If we look at lore we see that one of the first warlocks to come to Azaroth was Gul'dan an orc, and from reading the lore there is no hint he was a mage before he became a warlock. Gul'dan learned all of his magic from the demon Kil'jaeden, directly, and it even states it was a “new” magic. The very land of the orc nation was becoming corrupted because of the warlock magic, the energy they used was not just corrupting them, but the land around them. (Chapter 3: The Doom of Draenor)

Not going to repeat Piroska, but add on to this. You're taking things out of context. For one, "new" magic is an uncertain term at best, but you're also looking at lore that centers on the viewpoints of the Orcs. Of course it would be new to them, they had no concept of the arcane at all until this was introduced to them. Similarly, "new magic" doesn't mean new source of power overall. Even if we accept that this is "new magic" for everyone, Orc and Human alike, that doesn't rule out the idea that they're simply talking about new spells that no one else had discovered by that point.

This then brings us to why warlocks for Orcs are former shamans. This is an easy question to answer: because they didn't have mages. Arcane as practiced by mages makes the most logical "lead-in," for races that have it, to becoming a warlock. It's sort of like a gateway drug that tempts one to go deeper. That doesn't mean one couldn't start right off the bat with warlock magic, though most logical people would not because of the dangers. Most orcish warlocks were former shamans who lost favor with the spirits and thus lost their powers, and instead sought something else to fill that void. They did not have access to the training necessary to learn the magic of mages, so instead went with what they could get.

This also relates to all the lore that pretty much tells us that warlock and mage magic are essentially almost identical. If the fact of how they're treated and explained in the RPG doesn't sway you, there's also the bits of lore from Warcraft 3. For example, one of the big points about the differences between Blood Mages and Archmages was that Archmages used ice magic. Why? Because they were afraid that fire magic was too close to the power of warlocks. If the two types of magic were entirely different, I don't think that would have been a rational fear an entire city of mages would have held.

[Grimnir]

They did not have access to the training necessary to learn the magic of mages, so instead went with what they could get.

Didn't arcane magic in Azeroth come from The Well of Eternity, which in turn sucked it in from the twisting nether? To assume that there is arcane magic on Draenor, there would also need a portal of sorts for the magic to seep in. Fel magic was brought to the Orcs by Kil'jaeden (via blood of the pit lord) as a gift for aiding the Burning Legion.

Assuming that arcane magic is bound to the twisting nether (which is admittedly kinda confusing to describe the properties of), there would only be arcane magic in Azeroth, and other worlds the Titans made portals for. Perhaps some arcane magic seeped through the great portal, but this would be after the Orc Warlocks were established.

[aroes]

The Well of Eternity acts as the portal for arcane magic to come through from the twisting nether. Now where a portal exists like that on Draenor is a good question, someone else might know. It has however been expressed in lore that Draenor does have a ley line system similar to Azeroth.