On the State of the Server

[JackofBlades]

Usually people say its pointless because everyone puts up suggestions but never actions, still it was still a brave thing to do.

[Scout]

The problem is that action can't happen unless someone tries to direct it, and currently there is nobody doing so. I would love it if players would do it by themselves, or if the GMs would encourage it, but until that happens, one of the only things we can do is keep making posts like this. The lack of GM posts in this thread makes me feel like communication isn't working very well.

I personally try to get people to do these things ingame on a regular basis, and this post is supposed to encourage other people to do the same, among other things.

[FlyingSquirrel]

EDIT: Sorry, that was rude. Disregard this.

[HolyHiveMind]

Hrm. In my opinion, Scout does these things ICly. Also, again opinionated, posting something like this is a useful contribution. While some players may not check the forum, most do at some time.

[Psychyn]

Right, let's get back into the saddle now that I'm sobered up! I'll have a shot at this, as I've read it.. twice perhaps, and have yet to respond. First off, forgive me if I haven't fully understood some things as large threads generally cause me to lose the point here and there. I'm not sure if anyone else ever had that, but you read till half-way then go like.. "Euuuh.. What was the start about again?" Any-ho! Let's get started.

1. Aiming at the first issue addressed in this thread, Metagaming. Perhaps it never bothered me, or perhaps I don't completely know what the term means as I haven't seen it around. I don't consider looking at the /who list to see where the RP is at metagaming, but also you also stated it is excusable so I figured I'm excused. ^.~ People also frequently ask around in the lookingforgroup channel and as long as people can find a reason to join the RP somewhere, I say let them. More the merrier. (Then again, I have been in a few more private RPs, but afterwards I tried to contact the people to schedule a RP some other time. That, or I found a spot so people could still join in. That's just me though!)

I agree however, that when it's done people shouldn't point the finger and go like. "Hey! That's metagaming!". I'd say, talk to the players politely over party/whisper/raid or anything, and help that person actually find a reason as to why he knows such information or found the place you are at. However, never try to force someone else to do something or to use a reason you provided.

2. Second up, expanding the views and interests. I do believe that there has been a lot of selfishness going on. People tell others what to do, or start something up what by first glance, looks incredible and contains high expectations of people, while nobody ever asked the people on the other side what they would like. Let me try to clarify that up with a example out of my head:

Say, player A and his crew starts up a AWESOME guild with awesome goals, GM support and everything else to destroy Stormwind. People are excited, awesome events are planned and a lot of evil-doers sign up! But what's this? No good doers are defending Stormwind? People say how unrealistic it is that the good doers not care, but.. has anyone ever checked at the good doers if they had interest in actually defending Stormwind?

Aside from realism, that most probably would.. Has anyone ever checked to the players behind the good doers and asked like. "Hey! Would you be interested in defending Stormwind?" I haven't seen any of this happen, and so a lot of events or guilds either.. die off or manage to complete their goals without little opposition. I'd say, before you start up something, check both sides of the coin. (This is naturally, just my opinion. The example wasn't aimed at anyone. ^.~)

2.5 Looking back, I'd say that partially falls under the event topic as well, but let me add something to that in particular! I tend to make up my history and character of the character I'm playing on the go, this leaves me a lot of room to randomly talk to people. I try not to stick with anything beforehand apart from say, 3 words. For Kylianne, they were "Pickpocket, flirty, seductive." and from there out, she gained a amazing character development I never was able to see before-hand. How? I just talked to a random person, asked over OOC if he was fine with any seductive robbing and worked from there! She has turned into my favourite character at least, and I remember Saraya starting off in pretty much the same way. "Merciless, evil, rogue."

3. Custom RP zones!..

I'd say who needs them? World of Warcraft is filled with many regions that gain no RP at all, but having been at the lawless settlement myself a few times and have been actively defending it over the forum, I say they create a hell lot of fun RP. The thing is, people seem afraid to just try. To step out of their little RP box, roll a disposable character and send it there to see how it is. (This goes for any.. custom area / region.)

You can't dislike something if you never tried it, my parents taught me that when I was young and had to eat all kinds of vegetables! Try it and discover, don't be afraid to go there and afterwards tell yourself. "I actually had fun." Naturally, it's also fine to afterwards say "Well, It's not my cup of tea after all!" Because you know what? You tried. Encourage others to try, and don't express dislikes over and over of a place / zone.

In real life, you aren't going to a market to stand in the midst of people at a fruit market stating. "God, I dislike fruit. I hate it." So why do it on GMI or any other place? If you dislike something, don't get involved and try to do things you do like with others. This is again, solely advice. I'm not trying to make anyone do anything here, but merely giving my opinion.

4. Communication! I'm actually not sure what to write regarding this topic, as I haven't seen enough to actually form a opinion. From my idea, both the players and GMs ask for feedback regularly, but both sides are afraid to give it and voice their thoughts.

5. Commitment, if you give me a finger I'll give you a ring. A lot of people try to encourage others to do something, or flat out tell others to do something. I've seen.. a incredible amount of posts like this (As in, a player stating good points but getting utterly ignored.) so many times it stopped surprising me. I agree that there has been a lot of players stating their dislikes, but rarely seem to be willing to change the situation. I think what I wrote up earlier, about trying to do stuff with others goes for this subject as well. Try to step out of the little box, increase your RP community around yourself and actually head somewhere. Even if it would be with one person, you can still have good fun. You don't need gigantic events.. I remember holding my first DM event on Niarrin with just one player. We got ambushed by 3 Orc's in the Ashenvale region, and hell, we defeated them. It was so much fun, that it inspired me to do more DM events with GoE. But sadly, never gotten the chance as interest diminished greatly.

Now, you can read that and think. "Just try to change it!" I admittedly did, forum posts, in-game but the playerbase houses little interest and thus I've put it on hold so I could try other things. Sprucing up the OOC livelyness for one.

6. In closure!.. I'm actually not sure what to write. I tried to give a neutral opinion on the points given at the first page, and if I haven't done so somewhere feel free to state so. I may have missed a point, or may have hit one right on it's head but.. These were just my views.

I also think the server isn't that terrible or going downhill that fast, just that it's.. stale. I've gotten the idea that one half is in favour of changing the server, while the other half likes the way it goes so far., effectively reaching a stalemate.

[TwilightDisciple]

This is a really good post, but I keep feeling deja vu for some reason.

[Jason]

This is a really good post, but I keep feeling deja vu for some reason.

This post has been written a couple times by now. I return to my earlier point - things didn't change much. I'm still of the opinion that you just need to sit back and let it evolve. We have too many people now to just say "Hey, don't do this," and expect it to work and garner attention en masse. Not to discredit the post, in all its good intentions, but the outcome will inevitably be the same as the other similar threads like this one.

And such.

[Rigley]

The lack of GM posts in this thread makes me feel like communication isn't working very well.

I'm going to put this out here, because this one sentence struck me. As it's been said already in this thread, these kinds have posts concerning server issues have come up a -lot- recently. I hazard the guess that a lot of the team has really just said all they really have to on the matter.

I could sit here and repost my feelings on each thread, but its really not the most productive use of time, you know? You can argue some of these haven't come up on the forum before, but I assure you I've we've all fielded our share of concerns on all of these topics pitched on whispers, vent, so on.

[Scout]

That's fair enough. I wasn't trying to make a jab at the GM team, it's just the way that it came across. However, thank you for the clarification.

[DiesUltime]

Honestly, I think it's all gone from "reform" to "drama" in a little less than a month. I see a lot of arguing on the forums, and usually it's over silly stuff.

Nothing major can happen if the small details like, uh, getting along don't happen. Players, GMs, whatever. It's all much in the water when you guys keep flinging shit in one direction or another.

[Delta]

Regarding commitment, I have to wonder if it's really the problem that people aren't committing, or if it's more that the people organising events aren't letting go of their ideas when no one is interested in them, or when interest is lost.

Granted, I think we've all come to this server with different expectations, and the kind of games that we all want to play don't always fit in with one another.

Sometimes show is more prudent than tell. Go into a public place and start something, and people will get themselves involved. People sometimes seem to get annoyed when others burst in on their private roleplays, but this can actually work to your advantage if you're looking to involve people. It's easier than you'd think!

[TwilightDisciple]

Regarding commitment, I have to wonder if it's really the problem that people aren't committing, or if it's more that the people organising events aren't letting go of their ideas when no one is interested in them, or when interest is lost.

I agree with this to an extent. Recently, someone was trying to host a multi-part event and was discouraged when the turnout for the second half wasn't as big as the first. I suggested that, instead of focusing on numbers, why not just focus on quality? Isn't it better if a handful of good and interested RPers show up to your event instead of a large, chaotically disjointed group? For loose-end events like parties, bigger is better; but for intense storylines, it's OK to be small. At least then you have close the people who are interested in your story and you can entertain them as a storyteller a lot more personally.

The extent part is that, at the worst case scenario, it's OK to let go of your ideas, but not completely. Put them away somewhere. Some things that might not sit well with group A may sit better when you come across group Z one day in the future.

Sometimes show is more prudent than tell. Go into a public place and start something, and people will get themselves involved. People sometimes seem to get annoyed when others burst in on their private roleplays, but this can actually work to your advantage if you're looking to involve people. It's easier than you'd think!

^Obligatory carets of agreement^

[DiesUltime]

Reeeh. I still think it's less the planning and drive for involvement and more an issue of how things are recieved. I honestly feel like these topics keep on popping up over here because it's the new thing... people getting a load off their chest without actually... doing something.

I mean, I see a lot of things in here. People say it's the GMs, people say it's the players, people say it's people who organize events, and people say that it's the people who don't attend events.

Truth is, this whole thing points at the community as a whole. So yes, all of you guys are right. From my standpoint, you're all arguementative, and going in circles when you're missing the whole entire point of this place; having fun. Are you guys having -fun- anymore, or are you all just bitching? Are you guys trying to roleplay with fresh ideas? Are people commiting? Are people attending?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of you guys just said "you know what? I quit. This stopped being fun." It might be what this place needs, as all I see is complaining. I'm not the only one that sees this, right?

[SpiralLateralus]

Really, I think this just all boils down to stress. The past winter has been one of the most stressful winters in recent memory. Everyone I know on here, on other games, and in real life seems to have had a stressful winter, in one form of another. Many people I've spoken to seem to think that 2010 was one of the most stressful years in their entire life. And I'm not talking about the "oh god my car won't start" or "OH NOES MY LOVER LEFT ME!" kind of stress. I'm talking about the kind of stress where multiple bad things seem to be on your mind in one way or another, and it's just trying to find an outlet to get out without the result you sitting in the local jail.

Hopefully, this will all pass. The best thing we can do at a time like this...is remain respectful towards everyone. If you need to, I suggest taking a break. I've been taking a break from the server for some time now because there were many times where I felt about ready to go into Chat or OOC, and say very rude and expletive things about the server. I restrained myself, but what am I supposed to do with these feelings that are just a result of anger on my part? Scream at the wall and feel even dumber?

At the end of the day, everyone on this server metagames. If someone confronts you about metagaming, do not freak out at them. Take a look at your posts, and ask people around you if they felt you metagamed. You might be surprised at what you find, because some metagaming is obvious, and those are usually what people look for (a warrior teleporting in battle? A mage summoning a demon? The long lost lovechild of Arthas and Jaina?!). But most...most metagaming is well concealed by your mind, because your mind does not what to believe you are doing anything wrong. Otherwise you might feel depressed, and in the wild, feeling depressed does not help your chances of survival.

There seems to have been a million of these threads in the past month. This could just be some kind of mass hysteria on our part, but some concerns raised in these threads are legitimate. I suppose that's up to Kretol or Grakor to decide which ones are legitimate.

Reeeh. I still think it's less the planning and drive for involvement and more an issue of how things are recieved. I honestly feel like these topics keep on popping up over here because it's the new thing... people getting a load off their chest without actually... doing something.

I mean, I see a lot of things in here. People say it's the GMs, people say it's the players, people say it's people who organize events, and people say that it's the people who don't attend events.

Truth is, this whole thing points at the community as a whole. So yes, all of you guys are right. From my standpoint, you're all arguementative, and going in circles when you're missing the whole entire point of this place; having fun. Are you guys having -fun- anymore, or are you all just bitching? Are you guys trying to roleplay with fresh ideas? Are people commiting? Are people attending?

I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of you guys just said "you know what? I quit. This stopped being fun." It might be what this place needs, as all I see is complaining. I'm not the only one that sees this, right?

Award this person a Nobel Prize in something.

[Wuvvums]

Really, I think this just all boils down to stress. The past winter has been one of the most stressful winters in recent memory.

I'd just like to politely point out that our community has members from around the world, some of which don't experience winter at all.