Some Questions only lead to more Questions

[Zarquon]

Greetings!

I am writing to ask a few questions, and hear the opinions of CoTH as a whole. Without further ado, I shall now begin:

1) I understand that from what I heard on the ventrilo, we are trying not to follow D20 too much, but nonetheless, that means we have to follow something. And this something we have to follow is the in-game World of Warcraft rules, which results in some very curious situations. These curious situations are as follow. . .

Spoiler:

Call Infernal? http://www.wowpedia.org/Infernal_%28warlock_minion%29

Spoiler:

Cast Blizzard in Tanaris and literally change the weather to winter for a short period of time?

Spoiler:

Summon a Doomguard? http://www.wowpedia.org/Summon_Doomguard

Spoiler:

I don't even know how to explain this. http://www.wowpedia.org/Living_Bomb

Apparently, this means that as part of an IC Trust Fight option or such, as a warlock especially, I can just spend 80% of my base mana to summon a. . .Yeah.

2) On the part about following the D20 rules, then, are mages allowed to have familiar just like wizards in D20? And if so, would these familiars be able to have the same abilities; e.g. channel touch spells, intelligence score of more then 10, capable of communicating telepathically with their master, activate magic devices that their intelligence score is capable of (As a rule of thumb, 10 + (Spell level) worth of intelligence score. So 11 intelligence is required for a 1st level Spell and 19 intelligence is required for a 9th level Spell according to D20)

3) Are Hunter's pet actually as powerful as a player, have their own separate turn, and such? How about Warlock's pet? And if thus, how does it actually -work- or is it up to the discretion of the players involved?

4) Magical items, equipments and such. How do they actually work and are they actually attainable IC-ly? Or are they again up to the discretion of the players involved?

5) Finally, illusions. They are not exactly stated to exist in the World of Warcraft, or maybe they are, regardless; is a Mage capable of casting those? To what extend? Visual and auditory?

Thank you very much for your time and attention if you are reading this and I wish you a joyous and merry 2011. Have a nice day please.

Yours sincerely,
Zarquon

[muhaha8]

I'll focus on the Warlockery spells, because we all know that's what I'm best at. >.>

Infernals are generally agreed to be OUT OF THE QUESTION. It would call down a massive meteor into an area, and the impact would kill everyone within a half-mile radius. Once it's dropped, it would likely never stop. The only way to stop it is to drain the Fel from it, which would insta-kill any character.

Doomguard: Nothing should -ever- be done regardin such a powerful demon without complete GM permission. Hence why I am not doing anything with Lacuna yet. In general, it's a bad idea to just summon it. The thing would go -ballistic.-

As for magical items, your answer is yes. They are available ICly, but it should be at the discretion of all involved if you choose to use it in a combat situation.

I'm not certain about illusions, or D20 components, as we are kind of trying to pry ourselves away from it.

[Zarquon]

So game mechanics < logic? How do you insert realism into a fantastical world? To what extent does the line becomes crossed? I think one of the issues raised was whether priests could cast from both Shadow and Light. It seems paradoxical, like hot ice. But then again, two words. Frostfire Bolts.

[muhaha8]

Well, a Shadow Priest can technically cast from either. The point, however, is that an Infernal would likely be lore-changing, as if dropped in say, Duskwood, it would burn the place to the ground, as well as a fair amount of Elwynn. Doomguards are really sort of feasable, but they require GM approval. Again, why I'm not doing anything with Lacuna.

[DaveM]

To awnser as a whole, things need to be fair.

The awnser to most of your questions: Things need to be fair between PCs. The chances have to be even, or balanced. (Prestiges -might- be an exception, but only to an extent.)

I'd therefore treat a pet/minion as either part of the player, sharing hp and sometimes attacking for him/defending him in emotes, or go to a balanced version.

Sth like Hunter 3 hp, Hunter pet 2hp and -10 to all rolls, Warrior he's fighting 5 hp.

If I wanna' get fancier, I use stuff like this.

I think the next stop past that is the d20, and I don't want to bother with that on CotH which I ultimately find to be about RP.

As for realism, it is, although many would QQ about this, secondary to fairness. Why? Because realism, when it's all said and done, is in the eye of the beholder. Advantages one feels he has because he put himself in an objectively good position seem to his oponent like an objective disadvantage. So it comes down to even odds, especially in a world that should be about good stories, and not about getting ahead.

Familiars, freaky spells, etc. - I think it should all be legit as long as 1) It's fair and balanced to all involved and 2) It is agreed upon by those involved.

So Game mechanics < Logic < Fairness... < Building Good Stories, but that's usually for when you RP with people you trust.

Disclaimer: This is all just how I feel about things. Sorry if I went on a slight tangent talking about PC vs PC combat in general.

[aroes]

I'll throw my two cents in here I guess.

1) I wouldn't say that infernals are out of the question, their blast radius is rather small and there are thousands being produced by the Legion in a factory-like setting. Just as with everything moderation is key, they are more powerful than some other demons so you might want to have a plan to dispose of it if you intend on trying to command it.

Blizzard affects a small area and while it is feasible to cast frost spells in a desert it is easier when there is water in the air. Since Tanaris has a beach I guess it would depend on how close you are to that. Still though, no actually changing the weather, feel free to pelt your friends with magical ice though.

Doomguards are another one of those things in which moderation is key, many people seem to think they are standard demons when in reality they are quite powerful. During the summoning and binding of Ara'ghazi I believe he either killed or maimed a fair number of people. As Muhaha said, talk to the GMs first.

Living bomb is one of those things I'm not sure on, I'd either stick to using it as a finisher if the other person agrees to having their corpse ruthlessly exploded or to events where you are fighting npcs.

2) I've not really seen any mages here have familiars so it would be interesting to see one rp'd devoutly. It should be noted familiars are generally very weak and if it dies...the consequences for the mage are equally as terrible. It would be as if a part of themselves died, the mage would experience a significant loss in power and be bedridden for days.

Familiars typically are used for their practical purposes like scouting, who's going to notice a raven in a town? The telepathy is an effect of the mage binding it to their will, the familiar's mind is also a storage space for spells so that the mage does not need to renew their knowledge of spells after each one cast. The Kirin Tor are typically a variant known as a focused mage, they isolate a certain portion of their own mind to store spells in. All this being said I do not see a reason they aren't allowed if done right.

3) It depends on the person if they get an extra turn or not, I would give the person another turn if he was shooting bullets are me but has also tamed a lion that wishes to rip me apart. While not on par with people (some warlock minions are) it really is up to both parties involved.

4) Magic items are made, recovered, discovered, bought, and traded all over the place. They can be anything from a quill that doesn't run out of ink to a ring of disintegration that turns your enemies to ash. They are made by mages that have a knowledge of enchantment and know the spell of permancey. The better the quality the more expensive they are. Generally common sense should be used here if you can use it.

A quill that writes itself? A refilling wine glass? Sure
A ring of disintegration for a one hit kill and corpse destroying? No.

5) It depends on spell focus and how powerful the illusions are. Creating three illusions of yourself that can use magic as well drains strength very quickly and cannot be maintained for long. How many senses do they effect, the moreso the more energy it takes o maintain. So if a mage is walking down the road with an illusionary squad of soldiers that are sight but no sound it is pretty obvious it's an illusion.

The most powerful illusionists can create illusions that affect all five senses, to add some flavor to this and to quote Archmage Runeweaver

"llusion is the art of deceiving reality itself. The mists of illusion can make a mage invisible or inaudible to the world or twist the image of a location into something entirely different. Illusion can be used for disguise or manipulation, but beware, spells to counteract illusions exist in the divination school. It is not viable to base your entire career on illusionary magic."

[Zarquon]

Thank you, Aroes, and I do agree with most of what you wrote.

In truth, doomguards are stated to be capable of destroying whole armies according to WoWWiki, and for the ability to summon them being a level 60 spell makes me. . .uneasy.

Craer wants/has a cat familiar named Heidi who uses a wand of Ghost Sound to mimic speech and speaks only in Haikus. It is fun! The cat made many females fall in love with her! >_> <_< But still, I can assure you that I have personally no wish of having familiars being used for combat.

Also, the main issues about the Call Infernal and Summon Doomguard is on the game mechanics and the actual existence of it, where a warlock apparently can give up 80% of his or her mana to summon one of those horrifying things, something that I myself personally find overtly overpowered. I can almost imagine the entire White Sun Covenant walking up to someone and spamming infernal on him. But still, it -exists- as a spell -in game-. To what extent do we draw a line and say, "No, that cannot happen, even if it exists in game as a spell."

[aroes]

If I recall correctly an animal taken as a familiar gains intelligence, funny as it would be I'm not sure if they are capable of using ghost sound to speak. On that note I will say that ghost sound is a rather simple spell and wands of it could exist/can be made.

[Zarquon]

<3 And familiars can activate wands, if we follow the D20 rules. . .Yes, you could in DnD have a bat familiar with a wand of fireball doing artillery bombardments! =D

[Beltharean]

I'm just going to say one thing, since it's early and I'm typing on this ridiculously small itouch screen ( :P)

Summoning an infernal -IS- a big deal, as they are rather powerful, but without a master telling them exactly what to do, they're basically useless since they're unintelligent golems. That being said, it's not the craziest thing you can do lorewise in the RPG or in game. An example of this is where you open a portal into the nether, and summon upwards of fifteen demons at once. And that's only a mid-range level spell of o recall.

[FlyingSquirrel]

For the majority of them, it depends who you play with. I remember Marianna being able to cast Summon Infernal, but even that only lasted for 2-3 seconds before collapsing. The Doomguard thing was approved by Kretol, and will probably be something that will not happen while Arag is still around. Although, the last part of that sentence is my opinion.

Also, you probably wouldn't change the whole weather, but maybe in that short area there would be a bit of snow for a few minutes.

Yes, we are allowed to have familiars. I believe that they wouldn't be able to fight, but if they could, I'd imagine they'd go much the same as pets.

For pets, it matters who you're fighting with. If I ever get into a fight with Salsh'alei then I hope she can use Lei'rala, as the pet she's had for over 10,000 years isn't going to stand by and watch. But, again, it's all with the two people. People have done it before, such as Jabber Jabjab.

What do you mean by magical items? Enchanted Items? 'cause if so, there are plenty of enchanters out there. I would have trouble imagining most creating a full runeblade, but they could do an orb resembling something like an Orb of the Sin'dorei.

They do exist. They're hell to control speech-wise, but for actions, such as running, it's plausible.

[Zarquon]

Yes, we are allowed to have familiars. I believe that they wouldn't be able to fight, but if they could, I'd imagine they'd go much the same as pets.

I agree with mostly everything you say, Danalthar, but I would like to politely ask for the source of this statement; this issue was actually previously raised not by me but by Rigley. My beliefs are that wizard's familiars would have increased intelligence, the ability to activate very low-level magic items, and telepathic communications with their masters, in accordance with the D20 rules. On the other hand, are we are allowed to have familiars? Thank you very much for your input, Danalthar.

[FlyingSquirrel]

I have no source. I was just saying that I don't think one would be too bad for people.

[Aphetoros]

Just saying. As long as you RP summoning an infernal correctly, things should be perfectly fine. Pre-restart Astus was very far into demonology, and he once summoned an infernal. I RP'd it basically as some sort of... limit keeping the flame from setting everything on fire. Like, when the meteor crashed, it only affected a certain area because of the spell/creature's limits. He used it to kill someone, and afterward he was extremely drained and bedridden for days.

[Zarquon]

@Astus: It sounds like the infernal most definitely -would- kill someone, however, as it is. . .well, an Infernal. The limits you stated involved the fall of the meteor and the immolative aspect of the infernal, but not the actual strength of the infernal, which is quite considerable compared to a normal character. That absolution in victory means that it might be slightly iffy; I would be most willing to take the penalties if casting out an infernal would not only save my life but slaughter my enemy, for example.

@Danalthar: True; as long as it is more RP-centric and a non-combatant, I personally think it would be fine, but I am biased, since I want Craer to have a cat that speaks through a wand of Ghost Sound and only in Haikus.